Feb 19, 2015, 07:01 PM
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Replacing window regulator rollers
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 297
Likes: 1
From: El Dorado Hills California
Replacing window regulator rollers
Discovered an "Irregularity" in replacement rollers purchased from a forum vendor.
Notice the additonal distance in the shaft reach.
The offset now allows the arm to interfere with the electric motor.
Anyone experienced this?
Thought I would float this on the board while waiting for an answer from the vendor.
Blain
Notice the additonal distance in the shaft reach.
The offset now allows the arm to interfere with the electric motor.
Anyone experienced this?
Thought I would float this on the board while waiting for an answer from the vendor.
Blain
Last edited by Blain; Aug 24, 2010 at 09:36 PM. Reason: spelling dork
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
...are they for your application exactly - year, etc.??? There are other vendors for these parts - maybe call them in the meantime. Some vendors have schematics of their products so you can eyeball what they are supposed to look like.
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 2
From: Circleville Ohio
Vader Vette
Discovered an "Irregularity" in replacement rollers purchased from a forum vendor.
Notice the additonal distance in the shaft reach.
The offset now allows the arm to interfere with the electric motor.
Anyone experienced this?
Thought I would float this on the board while waiting for an answer from the vendor.
Blain
Notice the additonal distance in the shaft reach.
The offset now allows the arm to interfere with the electric motor.
Anyone experienced this?
Thought I would float this on the board while waiting for an answer from the vendor.
Blain
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 297
Likes: 1
From: El Dorado Hills California
If the hole in the arm was larger the shaft would drop down to the roller.
I'm not getting a satisfactory response from the vendor. This part is wrong and should be corrected.
Are there any vendors we can trust to sell parts that fit?
Blain
I'm not getting a satisfactory response from the vendor. This part is wrong and should be corrected.
Are there any vendors we can trust to sell parts that fit?
Blain
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,435
Likes: 9
From: Kalamazoo Mi
were they from corvette central? i ran into the same problem with them, the shank was too wide, and it would have been impractical to drill the hole out wider, as the hollow point "rivet" portion would be unable to hold it securely. I used them as they were, but mine were not interfering with the window motor. 1980
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Nottingham
Before you go changing or drilling, i noticed when i bough some last year that the roller (plastic) is attached to the shaft by 'push on' i also noticed if you push it hard enough it clicks in a notch and then its the correct height/distance, its just not secured properly at the moment 
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Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,853
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Blain-
Sometimes there are questions I can't answer and this is one of them. I talked with Tommy about this yesterday and went out to the shop and pulled an original regulator. What I didn't do was ask Kevin in the shop how he installs's them.
The rollers extend outward about 3/32" further than those on the original regulator and what I can't understand is that we have installed these in our shop without issue, and we've sold 25 sets this month again without issue.
I read Wev.s post above and wonder if maybe when you crimp the rivet on the end if the roller slides downward another click. I just don't know and this will be the first thing I check Monday morning! Don't try this on yours until I get a chance to do one.
I've also looked at rollers from other vendors as another option but it appears they are getting the rollers from the same supplier as me. If you look at other vendor pictures you can see the same roller with the same shoulder. Maybe Wev is on to something here and I'm definitely going to test this!
The problem is that I really don't have a clear answer for you! In most cases if I don't know I can research or ask the shop... I wish I could say to do this or to that and it would take care of the problem.
Ernie.
Sometimes there are questions I can't answer and this is one of them. I talked with Tommy about this yesterday and went out to the shop and pulled an original regulator. What I didn't do was ask Kevin in the shop how he installs's them.
The rollers extend outward about 3/32" further than those on the original regulator and what I can't understand is that we have installed these in our shop without issue, and we've sold 25 sets this month again without issue.
I read Wev.s post above and wonder if maybe when you crimp the rivet on the end if the roller slides downward another click. I just don't know and this will be the first thing I check Monday morning! Don't try this on yours until I get a chance to do one.
I've also looked at rollers from other vendors as another option but it appears they are getting the rollers from the same supplier as me. If you look at other vendor pictures you can see the same roller with the same shoulder. Maybe Wev is on to something here and I'm definitely going to test this!
The problem is that I really don't have a clear answer for you! In most cases if I don't know I can research or ask the shop... I wish I could say to do this or to that and it would take care of the problem.
Ernie.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,359
Likes: 428
From: Seattle Area WA
Thanks Wilcox, I'm in the same boat right now, holding off on installing them because they are off from the originals. I've ordered these rollers from two seperate vendors and they are the same part like you discovered.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,853
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Scott-
Well this was wearing on me today so......... I jumped in the car and ran down to the shop.
There is not a double click or second stage to the roller! I drove the rivet out of two (lost the first one when it hit the floor). So that is not the solution....
I did not find out what the problem was and really don't have an answer.... Maybe someone that has installed these as they are can offer some insight.
Monday I'll power up the parts car door and see how close it comes to the power window motor. Both are original in working order so it should offer me a little more insight.
I feel very sure that all the rollers come from the same supplier....
Well this was wearing on me today so......... I jumped in the car and ran down to the shop.
There is not a double click or second stage to the roller! I drove the rivet out of two (lost the first one when it hit the floor). So that is not the solution....
I did not find out what the problem was and really don't have an answer.... Maybe someone that has installed these as they are can offer some insight.
Monday I'll power up the parts car door and see how close it comes to the power window motor. Both are original in working order so it should offer me a little more insight.
I feel very sure that all the rollers come from the same supplier....
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
From: Nottingham
My regulators are new as well from one of two vendors (Willcox or *cough* an other) i didnt notice any problems when fitting them but after i had run it up and down a couple of times i did notice the plastic roller can deff move on the metal 'pin' maybe mine has been forced out, but can be clicked back in, but either way it does seem to work OK, the buffers take up any play side to side.
But if Willcox has tried and tested then i too await the answer
But if Willcox has tried and tested then i too await the answer
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,853
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Wev...
I'm stumped to be honest.... If I had a good answer you know I'd post it and you know I'll try to figure this out!
Has there been another thread on this issue that I've missed?
Is there more info on this on the forum?
Victor and Kevin in the shop have installed these rollers without issue's. I know it's tight in there, but I also know there is plenty of excess room in the window run channels. I also now know that the rollers received by Blain are indeed the same as the ones we used in our last installation... How.. because they screwed one of the rollers up and we had to bust a set. (that's where I got the two I destroyed today).
I think for me.... running the original door with an original regulator, and motor that has not been replaced may shed some light on this. I don't know what.. maybe I'm looking to see what the original clearance was! I'm sure the door I have to test is all original but I'm also sure it's 31 years old too..
I'll post back...
Ernie
I'm stumped to be honest.... If I had a good answer you know I'd post it and you know I'll try to figure this out!
Has there been another thread on this issue that I've missed?
Is there more info on this on the forum?
Victor and Kevin in the shop have installed these rollers without issue's. I know it's tight in there, but I also know there is plenty of excess room in the window run channels. I also now know that the rollers received by Blain are indeed the same as the ones we used in our last installation... How.. because they screwed one of the rollers up and we had to bust a set. (that's where I got the two I destroyed today).
I think for me.... running the original door with an original regulator, and motor that has not been replaced may shed some light on this. I don't know what.. maybe I'm looking to see what the original clearance was! I'm sure the door I have to test is all original but I'm also sure it's 31 years old too..
I'll post back...
Ernie
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 297
Likes: 1
From: El Dorado Hills California
This might muddy the waters but I want all the facts on the table; This car is a '74 that had manual windows and I am converting to power with assemblies from a '78 donor car.
Research shows regulators interchange from 68 to 82. All mounting holes aligned perfectly.
Looks to me like the only place that this clearance can change is if the regulator mounting area on the door is deformed. Door hangs straight, interior skin has no ripples, dents etc. I have not put a straight edge to it but will check that today. I still have the '78 to compare with.
I changed motor mounting bolt from hex head to a button allen drive to gain about 1/16" and it now clears but any wear of the rollers will bring it in contact again.
Looks like I should go ahead and do the passenger door and see if I get the same results. I held off since the job is a real "challenge" and only want to do it once.
I wonder who and when it was decided that these things should be redesigned? Was it a mistake or did they know something we don't?
Blain
Research shows regulators interchange from 68 to 82. All mounting holes aligned perfectly.
Looks to me like the only place that this clearance can change is if the regulator mounting area on the door is deformed. Door hangs straight, interior skin has no ripples, dents etc. I have not put a straight edge to it but will check that today. I still have the '78 to compare with.
I changed motor mounting bolt from hex head to a button allen drive to gain about 1/16" and it now clears but any wear of the rollers will bring it in contact again.
Looks like I should go ahead and do the passenger door and see if I get the same results. I held off since the job is a real "challenge" and only want to do it once.
I wonder who and when it was decided that these things should be redesigned? Was it a mistake or did they know something we don't?
Blain
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,853
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
This might muddy the waters but I want all the facts on the table; This car is a '74 that had manual windows and I am converting to power with assemblies from a '78 donor car.
Research shows regulators interchange from 68 to 82. All mounting holes aligned perfectly.
Looks to me like the only place that this clearance can change is if the regulator mounting area on the door is deformed. Door hangs straight, interior skin has no ripples, dents etc. I have not put a straight edge to it but will check that today. I still have the '78 to compare with.
I changed motor mounting bolt from hex head to a button allen drive to gain about 1/16" and it now clears but any wear of the rollers will bring it in contact again.
Looks like I should go ahead and do the passenger door and see if I get the same results. I held off since the job is a real "challenge" and only want to do it once.
I wonder who and when it was decided that these things should be redesigned? Was it a mistake or did they know something we don't?
Blain
Research shows regulators interchange from 68 to 82. All mounting holes aligned perfectly.
Looks to me like the only place that this clearance can change is if the regulator mounting area on the door is deformed. Door hangs straight, interior skin has no ripples, dents etc. I have not put a straight edge to it but will check that today. I still have the '78 to compare with.
I changed motor mounting bolt from hex head to a button allen drive to gain about 1/16" and it now clears but any wear of the rollers will bring it in contact again.
Looks like I should go ahead and do the passenger door and see if I get the same results. I held off since the job is a real "challenge" and only want to do it once.
I wonder who and when it was decided that these things should be redesigned? Was it a mistake or did they know something we don't?
Blain
You know, I think I have some of the NOS rollers (or the last one available from GM) and I think they are made this way as well. I'm not 100 percent positive but I'm going to check that tomorrow.
Yes, the regulators interchanged between 68 and 82 but over this time period there could have been slight changes to the regulators. I've never really taken the time to look at each year head to head.
I'm glad you found a way around this issue but the fact remains that it was an issue and just to solve my curiosity I'm gonna keep digging.
Willcox
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 297
Likes: 1
From: El Dorado Hills California
Update;
Spent most of the day doing the passenger door. Installed button head screw just in case. Regulator clears by just a fraction more then the drivers side.
Hey Willcox, what do you think about a flat washer between the bottom track mount and door? Should change the angle very little by the top of the window run and increase the clearance to a more comfortable range.
Another aspect of these longer shafts is it changes the relationship of the idler arm to the regulator arm. Almost a bind at the pivot point. The assembly doesn't seem "free".
Think about the leverage these rollers have over the short ones. I can see the shaft wearing in the hole or just pulling the peened end out.
Did the Chinese engineer misinterpret the GM drawings when building the aftermarket part?
Blain
Spent most of the day doing the passenger door. Installed button head screw just in case. Regulator clears by just a fraction more then the drivers side.
Hey Willcox, what do you think about a flat washer between the bottom track mount and door? Should change the angle very little by the top of the window run and increase the clearance to a more comfortable range.
Another aspect of these longer shafts is it changes the relationship of the idler arm to the regulator arm. Almost a bind at the pivot point. The assembly doesn't seem "free".
Think about the leverage these rollers have over the short ones. I can see the shaft wearing in the hole or just pulling the peened end out.
Did the Chinese engineer misinterpret the GM drawings when building the aftermarket part?
Blain
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 402
Likes: 1
From: Medford NJ
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 850
Likes: 12
From: Shakopee MN
Hate to dredge up and old topic, but I was curious as to what the final outcome of this was. I'm about to order my replacements from Corvette Central and wanted to know if everybody has these issues. Sounds like it may be just another "suck it up, it's not a stock part just be lucky we have something close" moment.
Mine is a '71.
Mine is a '71.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 297
Likes: 1
From: El Dorado Hills California
I got no satisfaction from the vendor. The next time I order rollers I will be surveying different vendors and asking for a measurment of the post.
Very frustrating.
Blain
Very frustrating.
Blain