Finding the right nonstock wheel offset, tire size width etc
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
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From: Johnson City Tennessee
Finding the right nonstock wheel offset, tire size width etc
I'm in the process of saving up the money for a new set of rims & tires for my 79 restomod & like everything else I'm throwing stock out the window.
What I'm currently looking for are some Torque Thrust "style" rims but I'm thinking something more along the lines of 18 or 20 X 10 or 10.5, somewhere in that range. I know they make them up to a 22 but thats probably getting a little too getto. On previous cars Ive increased the rim size & really improved the grip in curves & over all stability on the road by eliminating the old bouncy-ball balloon tires. That being said I don't want to go too big because I don't want to have to dodge every pot hole, they still need some rubber on there. I'm after a bigger wider rim for the performance & the right tires to match.
My car has a Greenwood Daytona body on the front & something else with a big spoiler on the back. I'm pretty sure its wider than stock but wouldn't swear to it. Thing is, I had some 18s on a camaro that I put on it & it looked TERRIBLE because they were sunk so far inside the fenders. Kind of reminded me of them trucks that drive on rail road tracks where the wheels are just too narrow inside. Obviously, not the look I'm going for. Anyway, the rims on it now aren't stock but they do come out to the edge of the fenders like they should even though both were 8" wide tires. I'm pretty sure this is all to do with the offset but naturally there is no markings so I could just order the right thing with the next set.
Question is, how to get all the right wheel numbers so it works right & looks right on the first try because the wrong numbers would be a very expensive mistake. A 79s bolt pattern is 5X120.7mm or 5X4.75in so I have the first number to get started.
What I have:
What I'm after: Whatever this combination is it looks real good to me & Ive searched throgh a lot of pics of torque thrust rim / tire sizes on vettes.
What I'm currently looking for are some Torque Thrust "style" rims but I'm thinking something more along the lines of 18 or 20 X 10 or 10.5, somewhere in that range. I know they make them up to a 22 but thats probably getting a little too getto. On previous cars Ive increased the rim size & really improved the grip in curves & over all stability on the road by eliminating the old bouncy-ball balloon tires. That being said I don't want to go too big because I don't want to have to dodge every pot hole, they still need some rubber on there. I'm after a bigger wider rim for the performance & the right tires to match.
My car has a Greenwood Daytona body on the front & something else with a big spoiler on the back. I'm pretty sure its wider than stock but wouldn't swear to it. Thing is, I had some 18s on a camaro that I put on it & it looked TERRIBLE because they were sunk so far inside the fenders. Kind of reminded me of them trucks that drive on rail road tracks where the wheels are just too narrow inside. Obviously, not the look I'm going for. Anyway, the rims on it now aren't stock but they do come out to the edge of the fenders like they should even though both were 8" wide tires. I'm pretty sure this is all to do with the offset but naturally there is no markings so I could just order the right thing with the next set.
Question is, how to get all the right wheel numbers so it works right & looks right on the first try because the wrong numbers would be a very expensive mistake. A 79s bolt pattern is 5X120.7mm or 5X4.75in so I have the first number to get started.
What I have:
What I'm after: Whatever this combination is it looks real good to me & Ive searched throgh a lot of pics of torque thrust rim / tire sizes on vettes.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 1
From: Ansonia/NYC CT
First, decide how tall you want the tire size to be. For instance, the tires you have now are probably 20 inches. You want to stay there, or go a little larger, to say, 22 inches? That will give you an idea of what size radius tire you are going to look for. You want low profile tires, which are about 3-5 inches thick from the wheel, depending on type and brand. So, 22 inches minus 4 inches = 18 inches. 18 inch rims are what you want. Now, simply find a set of 18 by whatever width you want with the correct backspacing and bolt pattern, and you should be good to go. Just so you know, you go over 9.5 inches in wheel wdith, and the tires are going to stick out past the flares, unless you go L88 flares, and offset TAs. Also, try to keep at least2 inches between the tire edge and the frame of the car, when you take you measure.
On a personal note, while the torque thrusts have the sizes you need, and they DO look pretty nice...they have to now be the THE most overdone wheel for a C3 ever. What's your budget?
On a personal note, while the torque thrusts have the sizes you need, and they DO look pretty nice...they have to now be the THE most overdone wheel for a C3 ever. What's your budget?
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 1
From: Greensboro NC
A few questions:
1. Current tire size?
2. Current rim backspacing?
3. Front and rear the same?
4.Current measurement frame to tire, frame to rim (front & back)?
Note:
Measure the backspacing from the mounting flange to rim edge.
If you're really budget minded, bear in mind that 18" tires will typically cost a bit more than 17" tires..
1. Current tire size?
2. Current rim backspacing?
3. Front and rear the same?
4.Current measurement frame to tire, frame to rim (front & back)?
Note:
Measure the backspacing from the mounting flange to rim edge.
If you're really budget minded, bear in mind that 18" tires will typically cost a bit more than 17" tires..
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
From: Johnson City Tennessee
I'm going to "attempt" to stay under $1500 if I can.
So I should shoot for 9.5 wide instead of 10. Thats doable I'm just after as wide as I can get without rubbing anywhere not to tub it or add a wide body kit.
Check out Motorheads set up. I really like this! "Chrome Coys C5. T1R Toyo tires 285/40/18 and 255/45/17" Not sure why he chose 2 different sizes but it looks good. I'm thinking 18s also so thats one more number down.
I don't mind that Torque Thrust is over done on C3s nationally. There are probably less than 10 C3s in my city or at least that I've seen out & about & all of them are pretty much stock in appearance so even if I someday go to a local Cruz In with other vettes I'll have no trouble finding mine.
How do I go about measuring what for what? This is the first time I haven't just thrown some used rims on to get rid of hub caps.
So I should shoot for 9.5 wide instead of 10. Thats doable I'm just after as wide as I can get without rubbing anywhere not to tub it or add a wide body kit.
Check out Motorheads set up. I really like this! "Chrome Coys C5. T1R Toyo tires 285/40/18 and 255/45/17" Not sure why he chose 2 different sizes but it looks good. I'm thinking 18s also so thats one more number down.
I don't mind that Torque Thrust is over done on C3s nationally. There are probably less than 10 C3s in my city or at least that I've seen out & about & all of them are pretty much stock in appearance so even if I someday go to a local Cruz In with other vettes I'll have no trouble finding mine.
How do I go about measuring what for what? This is the first time I haven't just thrown some used rims on to get rid of hub caps.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
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From: Johnson City Tennessee
KTKelly : A few questions:
1. Current tire size?
15" rims all 4 tires are different used tires because I had to have something to move the car after what was on it spontaneously dry rotted & shredded. I can get you the size that was on it if that helps, next trip I make to the woods (recycled as flower pots not trashed)
2. Current rim backspacing?
Unknown, if it says it on there I can't find it. Need to know how to figure that out.
3. Front and rear the same?
Yes. I'm always moving tires around & I'm sure I would have noticed if they were different.
4.Current measurement frame to tire, frame to rim (front & back)?
(measurements approximate due to only 1 cup of coffee so far & my shop light just died)
Rear frame to rim 9.5 cm (almost 4 in)
Rear frame to tire 8.5 cm
Front frame to rim 12 cm
Rear frame to rim 10 cm
2 things here tho. All the junk tires are different so I don't see how frame to tire could mean much of anything & all 4 rims have a 0.317 in / 8.08 mm spacer behind the rim & thats getting thrown out when I get new rims. Use that extra info as you see fit.
Note:
Measure the backspacing from the mounting flange to rim edge.
I assume you're after a measurement taken by laying something flat on the rim edges & measuring straight up from the center. (approx) 83.41 mm / 3.283 in. I'd bet the spacer throws a curve in this somewhere when transfered to the new rims without a spacer but I have no idea.
If you're really budget minded, bear in mind that 18" tires will typically cost a bit more than 17" tires..
No problem. If I have to I'll get rims first & tires second instead of in a combo deal. I'm not gonna be buying next week or anything so no rush, I'm only 2 years past my original fix it & drive it date so I can wait. Plus, as a cost cautious individual, I plan to get 2 old rims with used tires strictly for getting all my pent up burn-out & dough-nut frustration taken care of & just drive normal on the good tires.
1. Current tire size?
15" rims all 4 tires are different used tires because I had to have something to move the car after what was on it spontaneously dry rotted & shredded. I can get you the size that was on it if that helps, next trip I make to the woods (recycled as flower pots not trashed)
2. Current rim backspacing?
Unknown, if it says it on there I can't find it. Need to know how to figure that out.
3. Front and rear the same?
Yes. I'm always moving tires around & I'm sure I would have noticed if they were different.
4.Current measurement frame to tire, frame to rim (front & back)?
(measurements approximate due to only 1 cup of coffee so far & my shop light just died)
Rear frame to rim 9.5 cm (almost 4 in)
Rear frame to tire 8.5 cm
Front frame to rim 12 cm
Rear frame to rim 10 cm
2 things here tho. All the junk tires are different so I don't see how frame to tire could mean much of anything & all 4 rims have a 0.317 in / 8.08 mm spacer behind the rim & thats getting thrown out when I get new rims. Use that extra info as you see fit.
Note:
Measure the backspacing from the mounting flange to rim edge.
I assume you're after a measurement taken by laying something flat on the rim edges & measuring straight up from the center. (approx) 83.41 mm / 3.283 in. I'd bet the spacer throws a curve in this somewhere when transfered to the new rims without a spacer but I have no idea.
If you're really budget minded, bear in mind that 18" tires will typically cost a bit more than 17" tires..
No problem. If I have to I'll get rims first & tires second instead of in a combo deal. I'm not gonna be buying next week or anything so no rush, I'm only 2 years past my original fix it & drive it date so I can wait. Plus, as a cost cautious individual, I plan to get 2 old rims with used tires strictly for getting all my pent up burn-out & dough-nut frustration taken care of & just drive normal on the good tires.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,515
Likes: 12
From: Fisher, IL
I asked this question not too long ago and never really got enough of an answer to satisfy my need. Good thing for me that i'm not upgrading rims until next winter at the earliest.
I'm like you, I want the largest tire without rubbing. Without personally trying on different types I'm unsure how to accomplish this which is what makes it all so
O yeah and i agree with KevinK, TTII's are too overdone for me. They do look great so it's hard for me to blame those who have them but I guess that's one of the reasons they were first to be x'ed off my list of possibles.
I'm like you, I want the largest tire without rubbing. Without personally trying on different types I'm unsure how to accomplish this which is what makes it all so
O yeah and i agree with KevinK, TTII's are too overdone for me. They do look great so it's hard for me to blame those who have them but I guess that's one of the reasons they were first to be x'ed off my list of possibles.
Last edited by PUNISHER VETTE; Sep 18, 2010 at 11:42 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,959
Likes: 3,354
From: NYC NY
I asked this question not too long ago and never really got enough of an answer to satisfy my need. Good thing for me that i'm not upgrading rims until next winter at the earliest.
I'm like you, I want the largest tire without rubbing. Without personally trying on different types I'm unsure how to accomplish this which is what makes it all so
I'm like you, I want the largest tire without rubbing. Without personally trying on different types I'm unsure how to accomplish this which is what makes it all so
Last edited by 3JsVette; Sep 19, 2010 at 08:46 AM.
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,515
Likes: 12
From: Fisher, IL
The reason there are so many tire/wheel fitment threads about what fits and what hits is due to what works for one car may not work for another. These older cars are all a little different. The wear and tear, damage, and original quality control vary from car to car. Also when you get in max fitment (1/2" clearence) tire size from brand to brand will vary slightly. On top of that rim diameter will allow suspension components additional clearence. A 20" wheel can allow a rear spring to go inside the wheel hoop where a 17" wheel may require the spring to be shortened. Add in lowering the suspension and different spring rates and you have more variables. The C3 came from the factory with 27" tall tires. A lot of the common size 17" and 18" tires are 26" which is something else to consider when trying to fill the wheel wells. What I'm getting at is after reading all the threads about 17s and 18s and you are still not sure what to do the best thing is get what's called a "Tire Mount Mate" made by Wheelworks and find a local tire dealer you can work with and see for yourself what you think gives your car the look you are after. Here's a link to see what I'm talking about. http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ool/index.html
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
From: Johnson City Tennessee
That tool is exactly what we, that want the right tire size combination, need to achieve this undertaking.
I might pay $30-$50 for it as a tool I'd use once but $300+? If I built hotrods for a living, no problem but thats really cutting into my rim & tire budget!
The article addresses this obvious monetary setback by providing the ingenious solution of charging your friends for its use to recover from sticker shock but as a backyard mechanic with limited avenues to pursue others that would actually need such a service, its gonna be pretty hard for me to justify the coin in this instance. Trying to sell the idea of proper wheel size to the owner of a Saturn wagon with red fenders on a gray car that smokes & has a child seat, when what they are after is a tire rotation, is gonna be a petty tough sell considering the rim & tires he'd have to buy once he got the purchased measurements would be worth more than his cars $500 resale value.
Anyway, there is solution #1. Quick, good, but expensive. Thats the 3 corners of the triangle for the equation of any job. Lets work out what of the 3 we need... #1 quick, not necessary, a snails pace is fine. #2 good, accuracy is the key & the whole point so we cant skimp there. #3 expensive, no no no no & NO. There has to be a way to build out of scrap 2X4s, plywood, a tape measure (& probably duck tape & WD40 in there somewhere) a tool or tools to achieve the goal of acquiring a few measurements. I've already got 5X4.75 bolt pattern & 18" for rim diameter. I just need 3 more, tire & rim width, tire hight & offset.
I'm sure someone has already figured out the basic numbers for C3s. I mean come on, how different can they be. I don't need clearances within a 1000th of an inch here. Proper fitment of normal sizes on the market without a custom made set of rims & tires (out of my budget anyway) is all I'm after. Modern big rims & tires that'll fit an old car to function & look right. It really shouldn't be as difficult as all this OR am I trying too hard to oversimplify?
I might pay $30-$50 for it as a tool I'd use once but $300+? If I built hotrods for a living, no problem but thats really cutting into my rim & tire budget!
The article addresses this obvious monetary setback by providing the ingenious solution of charging your friends for its use to recover from sticker shock but as a backyard mechanic with limited avenues to pursue others that would actually need such a service, its gonna be pretty hard for me to justify the coin in this instance. Trying to sell the idea of proper wheel size to the owner of a Saturn wagon with red fenders on a gray car that smokes & has a child seat, when what they are after is a tire rotation, is gonna be a petty tough sell considering the rim & tires he'd have to buy once he got the purchased measurements would be worth more than his cars $500 resale value.
Anyway, there is solution #1. Quick, good, but expensive. Thats the 3 corners of the triangle for the equation of any job. Lets work out what of the 3 we need... #1 quick, not necessary, a snails pace is fine. #2 good, accuracy is the key & the whole point so we cant skimp there. #3 expensive, no no no no & NO. There has to be a way to build out of scrap 2X4s, plywood, a tape measure (& probably duck tape & WD40 in there somewhere) a tool or tools to achieve the goal of acquiring a few measurements. I've already got 5X4.75 bolt pattern & 18" for rim diameter. I just need 3 more, tire & rim width, tire hight & offset.
I'm sure someone has already figured out the basic numbers for C3s. I mean come on, how different can they be. I don't need clearances within a 1000th of an inch here. Proper fitment of normal sizes on the market without a custom made set of rims & tires (out of my budget anyway) is all I'm after. Modern big rims & tires that'll fit an old car to function & look right. It really shouldn't be as difficult as all this OR am I trying too hard to oversimplify?
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,871
Likes: 6
From: Sault Ste. Marie Ontario
If you talk to Coys Wheels they will help you with correct sizing.
In my case I went 17" X 8" C5's with 4" BS and Riken 255/50 rears, 245/45 fronts.
Fit was perfect and the rears hook up pretty well.
$1600 for the set.
In my case I went 17" X 8" C5's with 4" BS and Riken 255/50 rears, 245/45 fronts.
Fit was perfect and the rears hook up pretty well.
$1600 for the set.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,959
Likes: 3,354
From: NYC NY
cool idea but how does it work? when used the car is on a jack in mid air, they'd have to lower the car down on top of the tire without the rim in it until the suspension starts to decompress? I'm just wondering how they keep it consistent every time they lower the car and don't lower it farther then it would go with an actual rim/tire on it.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,959
Likes: 3,354
From: NYC NY
That tool is exactly what we, that want the right tire size combination, need to achieve this undertaking.
[COLOR=darkred]I might pay $30-$50 for it as a tool I'd use once but $300+? If I built hotrods for a living, no problem but thats really cutting into my rim & tire budget!
[COLOR=darkred]I might pay $30-$50 for it as a tool I'd use once but $300+? If I built hotrods for a living, no problem but thats really cutting into my rim & tire budget!
As far as C3 combinations that work there are lots. Do a search in both general and tech C3 forums using "17s" and then "18s". There is lots of reading. Or you can play it safe by going with what ever diameter wheel you chose in 8" wide with a 4" backspace. If you do that you may not "fill" the wheel wells to give you the "look" you are after. Good luck with what ever you decide.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
From: Johnson City Tennessee
while primitive you can always try this http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...all/index.html
I'm not 100% sure how to get it to work right without utilizing the center of the hub but by simply playing around with it my questions should answer themselves. I love the "anybody can build it & afford it" concept to this home made tool. I can easily justify a few bucks for a piece of angle iron & a rod bolt. Looks like I'll be making a trip to Lowe's today.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
From: Johnson City Tennessee
I did goto Lowes & get some stuff to try & build a tool but while Ive been waiting on a day to try to put it together the new Summit catalog came out & I found this.
Summit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PH...61c328676d%2C0
Video
http://wheelandtirefitment.com/
Its just $70. Not 1000s not 100s just 70. I'm CHEAP! I mean frugal. I really am. As stated I already went & bought stuff to try to build a tool but truth is I know that building it to measure correctly will be a pain in the you know what & no real guarantee that what measurements I come up with will be correct. So, has anybody used this tool before? I'm strongly leaning in this direction because I know trying to figure everything out myself is worth 70 bucks of headache, not to mention the headache of ordering wheels/tires that don't fit right.
Summit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PH...61c328676d%2C0
Video
http://wheelandtirefitment.com/
Its just $70. Not 1000s not 100s just 70. I'm CHEAP! I mean frugal. I really am. As stated I already went & bought stuff to try to build a tool but truth is I know that building it to measure correctly will be a pain in the you know what & no real guarantee that what measurements I come up with will be correct. So, has anybody used this tool before? I'm strongly leaning in this direction because I know trying to figure everything out myself is worth 70 bucks of headache, not to mention the headache of ordering wheels/tires that don't fit right.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 99
From: Orrtanna Pa.
I went through the same ordeal doing the Weld Draglites quite a few years back and thought I'd offer some tips I ran into.
Not all wheels are made the same with regards to "offset". I measured, looked at the hub to fender well distances till I was blue in the face, and ordered what I thought would fit. At the time I was trying to stuff 15X10's under the fender. When the wheels arrived I test fit just the wheel, and discovered the hub was flat,...no raised area to allow clearance for the brake caliper, also found they stuck out way past the fender. I returned the 15x10's and ordered 15x9's with an offset of 5 1/2". I then got a VB&P 1 1/4" wheel adaptor. This combination puts a 9 inch wheel in almost stock position, but is a wider rim. I like the old school fat tire look, and with the 406,...needed the grip.
The MT 295 55 15's do not rub anywhere either, but do stick out just a tad more than I would have liked. I ran P 295 50's before, and couldn't hook up off the line, so I thought I'd try the MT's.
Last edited by The Money Pit; Oct 15, 2010 at 09:37 AM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
From: Johnson City Tennessee
Got my wheel sizing tool & the box even has a pic of a C3 vette with Torque Thrust wheels on the box so hows that for an endorsement for what its used for. I'm excited to try it out.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
From: Chapel Hill NC
make it easy...
This company sells a set ready to bolt on... no math... no measuring.
$849 delivered. I can personally attest to the fit and quality. Includes caps, lug-nuts and chrome stems.
Add a set of your favorite tires and you are done for less than $1500.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/17x8-...TruckQ5fWheels
They also sell a set with 9" wide rear wheels (may require you to use a 1" spacer... maybe not)
$849 delivered. I can personally attest to the fit and quality. Includes caps, lug-nuts and chrome stems.
Add a set of your favorite tires and you are done for less than $1500.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/17x8-...TruckQ5fWheels
They also sell a set with 9" wide rear wheels (may require you to use a 1" spacer... maybe not)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 845
Likes: 54
From: Bangor, Northern Ireland
Hey mate
If you like straight spokes as opposed to the curved spokes go for Vintage wheel works V40's
http://www.vintagewheelworks.com/products/wheels/v40
If you go to 'photo gallery' then 'General Motors' then page 2 you'll see my red 'vette 'vert with 17" V40's, they do them up to 11" wide in custom offsets and not expensive.
They also sell 18"s which i'm going to upgrade to soon ( the 17"s will go on our Stude ) but only up to 9.5" wide which is fine for me but not wide enough for you, but ask them?
They also do the curved design ( V45's ) and 'minilite' copies ( V48 ), I really rate their wheels and they are very helpful
If you like straight spokes as opposed to the curved spokes go for Vintage wheel works V40's
http://www.vintagewheelworks.com/products/wheels/v40
If you go to 'photo gallery' then 'General Motors' then page 2 you'll see my red 'vette 'vert with 17" V40's, they do them up to 11" wide in custom offsets and not expensive.
They also sell 18"s which i'm going to upgrade to soon ( the 17"s will go on our Stude ) but only up to 9.5" wide which is fine for me but not wide enough for you, but ask them?
They also do the curved design ( V45's ) and 'minilite' copies ( V48 ), I really rate their wheels and they are very helpful
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 845
Likes: 54
From: Bangor, Northern Ireland
Hey mate
If you like straight spokes as opposed to the curved spokes go for Vintage wheel works V40's
http://www.vintagewheelworks.com/products/wheels/v40
If you go to 'photo gallery' then 'General Motors' then page 2 you'll see my red 'vette 'vert with 17" V40's, they do them up to 11" wide in custom offsets and not expensive.
They also sell 18"s which i'm going to upgrade to soon ( the 17"s will go on our Stude ) but only up to 9.5" wide which is fine for me but not wide enough for you, but ask them?
They also do the curved design ( V45's ) and 'minilite' copies ( V48 ), I really rate their wheels and they are very helpful
If you like straight spokes as opposed to the curved spokes go for Vintage wheel works V40's
http://www.vintagewheelworks.com/products/wheels/v40
If you go to 'photo gallery' then 'General Motors' then page 2 you'll see my red 'vette 'vert with 17" V40's, they do them up to 11" wide in custom offsets and not expensive.
They also sell 18"s which i'm going to upgrade to soon ( the 17"s will go on our Stude ) but only up to 9.5" wide which is fine for me but not wide enough for you, but ask them?
They also do the curved design ( V45's ) and 'minilite' copies ( V48 ), I really rate their wheels and they are very helpful