Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :(
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Instructor
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Granbury TX
Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :(
Both doors on my '81 need alignment help! The best way to describe it is to say the rear of the doors are perfectly lined up with the quarter panels. The front of the doors have the problem. I guess I should say the gap between the doors and the front fenders. The gap is great at the bottom (on both sides)... but, then it gets progressively bigger going toward the top. I'd say the gap at the bottom is 1/8", the gap at the top is probably around 1/2".
Question is: how do you fix this? On a 'normal car' :) , I would say remove the shims where the top of the fender mates to the 'car'. I have no idea how to fix this since the whole front end is 'glued' together... and there's no real way that I know of to lower the rear of the fenders to narrow the gap at the top. Suggestions??
Question is: how do you fix this? On a 'normal car' :) , I would say remove the shims where the top of the fender mates to the 'car'. I have no idea how to fix this since the whole front end is 'glued' together... and there's no real way that I know of to lower the rear of the fenders to narrow the gap at the top. Suggestions??
Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: FL
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
You're not looking at this gap while it's up on jack stands, are you?
I ask, because there's enough flex in the car to make the gap do just what you say under that condition.
-Noel
I ask, because there's enough flex in the car to make the gap do just what you say under that condition.
-Noel
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From: Granbury TX
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (Noel Carboni)
Nope, it's not on jack stands. But, it is precisely like what you said (it appears as if the body is flexed that way). I'm getting a little scared because I don't see a fix for this. I'm fixing to sink about $7000 in this car... and I'm worried I'm pumping that money into a car that won't even line up right! :sad:
Pro
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From: Quebec
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
You can adjust your doors by the door hinge. Where it attach to the door, the 4 holes per hinge are slotted vertically and where it attach to the body, they are slotted horizontally. That plus the shim that are under the hinge at the body give you a lot of play to adjust your door. Keep in mind that when you change the adjustements for the doors, the window may need to be realigned too. Another thing, close your door very carefully and check if it clears everywhere whenever you change an ajustement.
Stephan
Stephan
Melting Slicks
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (American Boy)
Doesn't sound like a door hinge problem. I've heard (here of course!) that rotten rubber body mounts can cause the body to sag enough to create the kind of gap you're describing.
JB
JB
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From: Granbury TX
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues!
I was wondering if a body mount(s) didn't have something to do with it. It does make sense (sort of). I think there are mounts right there where the doors and fenders meet.
I'm most afraid that this car was severely damaged and has frame problems that I don't know about that's causing the gaps. Does this sound probable. Anybody have any idea how much it costs to straighten a frame (a rough estimate)?
I'm most afraid that this car was severely damaged and has frame problems that I don't know about that's causing the gaps. Does this sound probable. Anybody have any idea how much it costs to straighten a frame (a rough estimate)?
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Doylestown PA
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! (k_belknap)
JB made a good point about body mounts.
However, C3s often have problems with sagging doors (which may cause the larger gap on the upper door to fender area). Late model C3s have suprisingly heavy doors especially if you've got power windows. I'd try to adjust the door hinges. I'd be willing to bet that your doors are just starting to sag. Open the doors and lift them from the bottom (careful of your back). If everything is tight, they shouldn't move. If there's play, the hinges are probably shot. You can buy new hinges at Mid America or Ecklers.
Please don't worry about frame damage - you don't wont to think about that in your worst nightmares. You probably have a simple door-sag problem that is common with all C3s - just like broken springs in the outer door handle.
However, C3s often have problems with sagging doors (which may cause the larger gap on the upper door to fender area). Late model C3s have suprisingly heavy doors especially if you've got power windows. I'd try to adjust the door hinges. I'd be willing to bet that your doors are just starting to sag. Open the doors and lift them from the bottom (careful of your back). If everything is tight, they shouldn't move. If there's play, the hinges are probably shot. You can buy new hinges at Mid America or Ecklers.
Please don't worry about frame damage - you don't wont to think about that in your worst nightmares. You probably have a simple door-sag problem that is common with all C3s - just like broken springs in the outer door handle.
Instructor
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From: Doylestown PA
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
k_belknap,
A question for the rear edge of the door to quarter alignment:
Is the door level with the quarter on top behind the door handle?
A question for the rear edge of the door to quarter alignment:
Is the door level with the quarter on top behind the door handle?
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Toronto Ontario
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (twotone82)
Aligning the doors can become a nightmare, before you start mark the orginal set-up just in case everything you try fails, If both doors have the same problem, then you may have major problems. as stated by the other member open your door and pull-up if there is play you may solve the problem a replasing the bushing and pin in the door hinge. Good luck
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Shawano WI
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
Door gaps on a Corvette are always a problem. Don't use it as an indication that something major is wrong. Check for sagging doors caused by worn bushings. Hinge pins and bushings can be bought for under $20.00. Even with good hinges you may have to spit the difference between the front and the rear of the door. Some members have even had to add fiberglass to the rear edge of the front fender during a repaint to correct the problem.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Now Frozen in Michigan
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
K_B-
First off, be aware that the 'fit-n-finish' of C3's is not comparable to todays standards. Variable and wide gaps were common traits. Not to mention the body work that could've been done by previous owners.
If your door is lining-up fine at the rear, and your bottom gap is good, than the front gap is the result. Fixing that will require body work to fill/correct. I wouldn't 'chase' the front gap trying to compromise the bottom and rear door fits. It'll drive you nuts, and you'll struggle to achieve what you started with! Been there, done that!
The dimensional frame variation is about 1/2 inch to the best of my knowledge. So I doubt that you'll solve it there. I have the same condition, and desided to live with it until the next repaint. Good Luck -Rod :chevy
First off, be aware that the 'fit-n-finish' of C3's is not comparable to todays standards. Variable and wide gaps were common traits. Not to mention the body work that could've been done by previous owners.
If your door is lining-up fine at the rear, and your bottom gap is good, than the front gap is the result. Fixing that will require body work to fill/correct. I wouldn't 'chase' the front gap trying to compromise the bottom and rear door fits. It'll drive you nuts, and you'll struggle to achieve what you started with! Been there, done that!
The dimensional frame variation is about 1/2 inch to the best of my knowledge. So I doubt that you'll solve it there. I have the same condition, and desided to live with it until the next repaint. Good Luck -Rod :chevy
Melting Slicks
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (ROD NOCK)
Rod's right on--that's the reason it doesn't sound like a hinge problem to me, because you said your the rear gap is right. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to get it right adjusting the hinges, and that door is HEAVY! Check the gap at the bottom of the front quarterpanel where it runs along the top of the rocker panel--is that even? If so, you may be in for some fiberglass work if the gap bugs you enough. BTW, Rod's also completely right about how common this is--my '78 for instance has a gap at the top front of each door I can poke my pinky into. When I get ready to paint, I'm going to pull the door and add a quarter inch of glass along right there.
JB
JB
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From: Granbury TX
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :(
Both doors do have the same problem.... and the top of the door does line up with the quarter panel. Hindsight is always 20/20... but the better way to state what's going on is that if I adjusted the door in any fashion, it would mess up 3 of the 4 alignment points (front top, front bottom, back top, back bottom). It sounds like I'm going to have to add some glass. I'm right in the middle of a re-paint; so, I'm glad I asked the question now instead of afterwards.
Thanks for easing my mind. :) Knowing others have this problem makes me feel like it's not a frame-damage issue.
Thanks for easing my mind. :) Knowing others have this problem makes me feel like it's not a frame-damage issue.
Team Owner
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From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
Belnap -- The door gap at the front should be about 1/4 to 3/8 the entire length of the gap. Smaller is better, but you can't go too small without running the risk of catching the front edge of the door on the fender when opening the door. It is common to find a larger opening toward the top of Shark doors due to the way the door gaps were ground at St. Louis. The fix for closing the gap at the top of the fender is to lay up fiberglass on the fender and trim it to meet the door. If you attempt to adjust the door on the hinges, you will widen the gap at the rear of the doors.
:)
[Modified by Easy Mike, 12:11 PM 3/31/2002]
:)
[Modified by Easy Mike, 12:11 PM 3/31/2002]
Thread Starter
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From: Granbury TX
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (Easy Mike)
How hard is it to do lay the fiberglass to meet the door? I haven't done body work in 15 years... but the last time I worked with f-glass, you just ground the existing material down (to the glass), then layed the glass/resin combo on top of that. Is that still the same method? And, how do you keep the glass 'stiff' in a vertical position?
Would I be better off letting a body shop do this? If so, any ideas how much it would cost?
I'm full of questions!! :D
Would I be better off letting a body shop do this? If so, any ideas how much it would cost?
I'm full of questions!! :D
Melting Slicks
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Door Alignment on an '81 - gap issues! :( (k_belknap)
They've got a step-by-step for added glass to this area in the Eckler's guide to fiberglass repair--I'd get a copy and follow their instructions--it really does not look difficult.
JB
[Modified by JB, 4:33 PM 3/31/2002]
JB
[Modified by JB, 4:33 PM 3/31/2002]
