78 Anniversary Edition Starter Problem..HELP
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 157
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78 Anniversary Edition Starter Problem..HELP
Car has 12,000 original miles on it always kept in doors in a controlled enviroment however since about 7K miles is has a starter problem.... It won't start after it gets hot!
Installed a heat shield along with a high tourque complete starter rebuild and it still has a problem.
Cant take it anywhere and try to leave to soon as it takes about 45 mins to 1 hour for it to cool an start, depends on outside temprature.
Car stays in the garage or is used and brought back home without shutting it off so not to be stranded.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Installed a heat shield along with a high tourque complete starter rebuild and it still has a problem.
Cant take it anywhere and try to leave to soon as it takes about 45 mins to 1 hour for it to cool an start, depends on outside temprature.
Car stays in the garage or is used and brought back home without shutting it off so not to be stranded.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Missouri City Texas
Might be the fuse link in the starter wiring.
Follow the wiring upward from the Starter.
When I gave my wiring a gentle pull, the wire came out of the fuse link.
ALso, insure your grounds a clean, for the battery and engine.
Follow the wiring upward from the Starter.
When I gave my wiring a gentle pull, the wire came out of the fuse link.
ALso, insure your grounds a clean, for the battery and engine.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,371
Likes: 223
From: Beecher Illinois
Don't know if it's an answer for you, but I had the same problem with my 12K mile white79. Made driving it home 1000 miles 5 years ago when I bought it an adventure.
THOUGHT I cured the problem right away simply by removing and reattaching the cables from the battery. All the frame/motor connections were fine. The fact that I couldn't even jump it when hot kinda told me the cable connections were bad somewhere. Seemed fine until a month ago at a cruise night. Wouldn't start hot but started fine after 30 minutes.
Swapped the battery with my Pace Car.
Seems to have fixed the problem. Same cruise night, same trip a week later and it started fine hot. Every year I remove the batteries for storage and for some reason always put the Sears Die Hard back in the white79. I'm thinking there's something about the Die Hard battery.
I don't drive the Pace Car any where near enough to see if the problem moved there.
Next year I'll put the Die Hard in my other 79 and see if the problem comes back in that one.
Thinking back on my original trip home with the white79. After unsuccessfully trying to jump it, I was sitting there with the key turned and tugged on the battery cable and it started right up. Might just have been the 30 minute wait, tho.
THOUGHT I cured the problem right away simply by removing and reattaching the cables from the battery. All the frame/motor connections were fine. The fact that I couldn't even jump it when hot kinda told me the cable connections were bad somewhere. Seemed fine until a month ago at a cruise night. Wouldn't start hot but started fine after 30 minutes.
Swapped the battery with my Pace Car.
Seems to have fixed the problem. Same cruise night, same trip a week later and it started fine hot. Every year I remove the batteries for storage and for some reason always put the Sears Die Hard back in the white79. I'm thinking there's something about the Die Hard battery.
I don't drive the Pace Car any where near enough to see if the problem moved there.
Next year I'll put the Die Hard in my other 79 and see if the problem comes back in that one.
Thinking back on my original trip home with the white79. After unsuccessfully trying to jump it, I was sitting there with the key turned and tugged on the battery cable and it started right up. Might just have been the 30 minute wait, tho.
Last edited by KapsSA; Oct 19, 2010 at 04:48 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
You haven't said what its doing when it won't start.
Turn the key and NO click , nothing ?
Or turn the key ,motor spins good but no fire up.
Or turn the key and the motor barely turns.
If its the first one,my initial thought would be the starter solenoid. If you want to play detective , temporarily wire in a light to see if the purple wire S terminal is getting 12v when the key is turned to start.
These C3s have always been bad for the neg cable making a bad connection at the frame.
Turn the key and NO click , nothing ?
Or turn the key ,motor spins good but no fire up.
Or turn the key and the motor barely turns.
If its the first one,my initial thought would be the starter solenoid. If you want to play detective , temporarily wire in a light to see if the purple wire S terminal is getting 12v when the key is turned to start.
These C3s have always been bad for the neg cable making a bad connection at the frame.
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Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
I think of this condition as "solenoid" heat soak not "starter" heat soak.
I also (as I have recommended) hook up a test light to be "sure" the S terminal is getting 12v when turning the key to start.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 5,768
Likes: 3
From: San Diego CA
check your wiring, especially the ignition wire from the ignition switch, you may find that it has gotten too close to the exhaust manifold and is getting hot or has burnt insulation.
As it has been described to me, and perhaps someone more electrically literate than me can verify, that the hotter the wire gets, the higher the resistance. If your ignition wire gets hot enough it cannot deliver the proper voltage to the solenoid and thus will not click or anything. - once the wire cools off, it can, and the motor starts
As it has been described to me, and perhaps someone more electrically literate than me can verify, that the hotter the wire gets, the higher the resistance. If your ignition wire gets hot enough it cannot deliver the proper voltage to the solenoid and thus will not click or anything. - once the wire cools off, it can, and the motor starts
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,371
Likes: 223
From: Beecher Illinois
" Usually " for me when a vette does this I replace the solenoid and the problem is solved. But by that time I have cleaned all battery and cable connections.
I think of this condition as "solenoid" heat soak not "starter" heat soak.
I also (as I have recommended) hook up a test light to be "sure" the S terminal is getting 12v when turning the key to start.
I think of this condition as "solenoid" heat soak not "starter" heat soak.
I also (as I have recommended) hook up a test light to be "sure" the S terminal is getting 12v when turning the key to start.
I remember years ago 'fixing' solenoids by turning that terminal contact that contacts the disc 180* to get a fresh surface.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
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From: Dayton, Ohio
If I remember right turning the terminal worked for starters that clicked but didn't turn the armature.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,371
Likes: 223
From: Beecher Illinois
Well, in my case anyway, I think i'll try running my white79 and Pace Cars tomorrow and try to recreate the problem.
If it shows up in the Pace Car...bad Die Hard battery(not my first bad Die Hard, either).
White79....starter.
If I can't get it to happen in either one, probably cable connections were my original problem and messing with them again 'fixed' it.
It's just that I never 'run errands' with it. So wherever I go I'm usually in one place for a while. This recent time I just happened to try it hot just to check.
If it shows up in the Pace Car...bad Die Hard battery(not my first bad Die Hard, either).
White79....starter.
If I can't get it to happen in either one, probably cable connections were my original problem and messing with them again 'fixed' it.
It's just that I never 'run errands' with it. So wherever I go I'm usually in one place for a while. This recent time I just happened to try it hot just to check.
Last edited by KapsSA; Oct 19, 2010 at 11:42 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
If it is the battery , be careful I've seen them disconnect internally arching trying to remake the connection, scary ! One of them was an Interstate battery with a white case , the arching inside lit the case up.
Le Mans Master
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Instructor
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Any hints?
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
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From: Dayton, Ohio
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 167
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From: Blythewood S.C.
St. Jude Donor '14
Had the same problem with my '78 SA. Replaced the starter solenoid and the problem went away. (A dirty way to find out if it's a defective solenoid is when the car is hot and won't crank/turn-over when trying to start it is to use a garden hose and pour water over the solenoid and cool it down, then try starting it.)
Don't laugh too hard, but I had to do it a couple of times before I could change it out and it worked for me. It's been a few years now with no occurence. Good luck
Don't laugh too hard, but I had to do it a couple of times before I could change it out and it worked for me. It's been a few years now with no occurence. Good luck
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,371
Likes: 223
From: Beecher Illinois
Well, in my case anyway, I think i'll try running my white79 and Pace Cars tomorrow and try to recreate the problem.
If it shows up in the Pace Car...bad Die Hard battery(not my first bad Die Hard, either).
White79....starter.
If I can't get it to happen in either one, probably cable connections were my original problem and messing with them again 'fixed' it.
It's just that I never 'run errands' with it. So wherever I go I'm usually in one place for a while. This recent time I just happened to try it hot just to check.
If it shows up in the Pace Car...bad Die Hard battery(not my first bad Die Hard, either).
White79....starter.
If I can't get it to happen in either one, probably cable connections were my original problem and messing with them again 'fixed' it.
It's just that I never 'run errands' with it. So wherever I go I'm usually in one place for a while. This recent time I just happened to try it hot just to check.
The no start when hot followed the Die Hard battery to the Pace Car.
Now I'm thinking not necessarily a bad battery. In fact a good battery because it recovers some charge on it's own. Just a matter of not driving the Vettes enough to get a GOOD charge. I do a lot of idling in the barn. Vettes start right up, but sometimes I feel that the battery may be a bit low but then the motor fires so then I don't worry about it
I pull the batteries out every winter and store them in the basement. Really never put a charger on them unless it's a no start situation right off the bat when I reinstall them in the spring.
So...with our lightly driven Vettes, maybe it's a matter of keeping the battery WELL charged.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,528
Likes: 53
From: Dayton, Ohio
Well, in my case it was definitely the battery.
The no start when hot followed the Die Hard battery to the Pace Car.
Now I'm thinking not necessarily a bad battery. In fact a good battery because it recovers some charge on it's own. Just a matter of not driving the Vettes enough to get a GOOD charge. I do a lot of idling in the barn. Vettes start right up, but sometimes I feel that the battery may be a bit low but then the motor fires so then I don't worry about it
I pull the batteries out every winter and store them in the basement. Really never put a charger on them unless it's a no start situation right off the bat when I reinstall them in the spring.
So...with our lightly driven Vettes, maybe it's a matter of keeping the battery WELL charged.
The no start when hot followed the Die Hard battery to the Pace Car.
Now I'm thinking not necessarily a bad battery. In fact a good battery because it recovers some charge on it's own. Just a matter of not driving the Vettes enough to get a GOOD charge. I do a lot of idling in the barn. Vettes start right up, but sometimes I feel that the battery may be a bit low but then the motor fires so then I don't worry about it
I pull the batteries out every winter and store them in the basement. Really never put a charger on them unless it's a no start situation right off the bat when I reinstall them in the spring.
So...with our lightly driven Vettes, maybe it's a matter of keeping the battery WELL charged.
Followed the Die-Hard- There is a condition referred to as sulfating in battery's. Not sure technically how it works but if a battery is sulfated it will act like your diehard. Good cold , bad hot.
I'm a big fan of "fresh" cheap battery's. Your more expensive battery's sit on the shelf too long !
