Help unstuck this...
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From: Louisiana
Help unstuck this...
Sorry for the case of deja vu, but I didn't want hijack the "20 years stored full tank of gas" thread, although I am aware a good deal of advice overlaps.
The situation I am currently facing is a 68 coupe with 454 that hasn't been turned over since summer of '06'. The object is to first turn it by hand. Last Friday I pulled the plugs and shot Marvel's Mystery oil into the plug ports to help free the pistons. Last night we tried to turn the engine by hand (sans plugs, also having first to pull the fan), but it wouldn't budge. We next pulled the valve covers and sprayed MM oil down the push rods, and around/on/through the valve springs, hoping to break the freeze. I went back to the store, got another bottle of MM oil, readministered the procedure at the spark plug ports and at the heads, then sealed everything up to let it marinate for a few days. We noticed some pushrods already appear to be bent, and I am quite certain this must have occured before turning the engine.
What I am wondering is if you have any other suggestions to help break the freeze so the engine can be turned by hand, and after we succeed there, what procedures should be done by default since the car has been sitting. TIA
The situation I am currently facing is a 68 coupe with 454 that hasn't been turned over since summer of '06'. The object is to first turn it by hand. Last Friday I pulled the plugs and shot Marvel's Mystery oil into the plug ports to help free the pistons. Last night we tried to turn the engine by hand (sans plugs, also having first to pull the fan), but it wouldn't budge. We next pulled the valve covers and sprayed MM oil down the push rods, and around/on/through the valve springs, hoping to break the freeze. I went back to the store, got another bottle of MM oil, readministered the procedure at the spark plug ports and at the heads, then sealed everything up to let it marinate for a few days. We noticed some pushrods already appear to be bent, and I am quite certain this must have occured before turning the engine.
What I am wondering is if you have any other suggestions to help break the freeze so the engine can be turned by hand, and after we succeed there, what procedures should be done by default since the car has been sitting. TIA
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Burning Brakes
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From: Middlesex NJ
Can you post a pick of these bent pushrods? Take one out and roll it on a nice flat surface like your kitchen table. If it doesn't roll smooth then its bent.
If you have bent pushrods and a locked up motor you maybe making matters worse trying to turn it over without figuring out why the rotating assembly is locked up.
Did you loose the coolant into the cylinders somehow?
Your having some lousy luck. Hang in there.
If you have bent pushrods and a locked up motor you maybe making matters worse trying to turn it over without figuring out why the rotating assembly is locked up.
Did you loose the coolant into the cylinders somehow?
Your having some lousy luck. Hang in there.
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Louisiana
Can you post a pick of these bent pushrods? Take one out and roll it on a nice flat surface like your kitchen table. If it doesn't roll smooth then its bent.
If you have bent pushrods and a locked up motor you maybe making matters worse trying to turn it over without figuring out why the rotating assembly is locked up.
Did you loose the coolant into the cylinders somehow?
Your having some lousy luck. Hang in there.
If you have bent pushrods and a locked up motor you maybe making matters worse trying to turn it over without figuring out why the rotating assembly is locked up.
Did you loose the coolant into the cylinders somehow?
Your having some lousy luck. Hang in there.
Coolant is certainly a possible culprit as there was a coolant leak from somewhere within the system. Assuming that possibility, what steps do you think should be taken to address the current state of the engine?
I will be happy to post pics of the rods within the engine or the rods pulled after I get home tonight... whichever is more helpful.
Last edited by pulpsmack; Oct 19, 2010 at 01:49 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Middlesex NJ
With the plugs out you should not have allot of difficulty turning over the motor unless of course something internal has gone on in the past 4 yrs of sitting an now your bores are rusted up.
Its always good to spray some oil in the cylinders of a motor that's going to sit long periods.
Is the location dry where the car has been sitting or is it damp? The engine didn't freeze from cold temps and poor coolant condition did it?
I mean to lock up that solid after having been running at the last time of use would mean some serious water got into your bores. Ive seen engines sit for a long time and just get light surface rust and still turn over. Then ive seen boat motors that loose an exhaust manifold jacket and the engine is trashed in a week especially if hydro-locked when trying to start them.
Oil soaking in the bores maybe your best bet unless you have a boreoscope to look into the bores with to confirm the presence of rust or not.
Its always good to spray some oil in the cylinders of a motor that's going to sit long periods.
Is the location dry where the car has been sitting or is it damp? The engine didn't freeze from cold temps and poor coolant condition did it?
I mean to lock up that solid after having been running at the last time of use would mean some serious water got into your bores. Ive seen engines sit for a long time and just get light surface rust and still turn over. Then ive seen boat motors that loose an exhaust manifold jacket and the engine is trashed in a week especially if hydro-locked when trying to start them.
Oil soaking in the bores maybe your best bet unless you have a boreoscope to look into the bores with to confirm the presence of rust or not.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Russell Ontario
St. Jude Donor '09
If the push rods are out and it does not turn try heating up the block ,I did this on a 79 and after a few hours being heated it turned over, don't ask why but I was desprite to get it to turn , this worked, Ron
I used an electric heater
I used an electric heater
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From: Louisiana
With the plugs out you should not have allot of difficulty turning over the motor unless of course something internal has gone on in the past 4 yrs of sitting an now your bores are rusted up.
Its always good to spray some oil in the cylinders of a motor that's going to sit long periods.
Is the location dry where the car has been sitting or is it damp? The engine didn't freeze from cold temps and poor coolant condition did it?
I mean to lock up that solid after having been running at the last time of use would mean some serious water got into your bores. Ive seen engines sit for a long time and just get light surface rust and still turn over. Then ive seen boat motors that loose an exhaust manifold jacket and the engine is trashed in a week especially if hydro-locked when trying to start them.
Oil soaking in the bores maybe your best bet unless you have a boreoscope to look into the bores with to confirm the presence of rust or not.
Its always good to spray some oil in the cylinders of a motor that's going to sit long periods.
Is the location dry where the car has been sitting or is it damp? The engine didn't freeze from cold temps and poor coolant condition did it?
I mean to lock up that solid after having been running at the last time of use would mean some serious water got into your bores. Ive seen engines sit for a long time and just get light surface rust and still turn over. Then ive seen boat motors that loose an exhaust manifold jacket and the engine is trashed in a week especially if hydro-locked when trying to start them.
Oil soaking in the bores maybe your best bet unless you have a boreoscope to look into the bores with to confirm the presence of rust or not.
2. two of those years it was covered in a driveway/parking lot, the next two, it was covered in a garage, so for 4 years the car sat above concrete.
3. Water/coolant could have found its way into the engine via a leak, despite all temptation to rule this out I am certain this possibility is on the table.
4. engine was turned with the plugs pulled and the cylinders having been sprayed with Marvel's Mystery oil three days prior, and wouldn't budge. The rods were attached during this time, however.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Savannah GA
Will it turn backwards at all? If yes for "X" degrees then stops, I would suspect a frozen valve or several... remove the rockers and see if it will spin. If not, best to pull the engine and start the autopsy.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: CA
Could you determine if its the crank that is locked or the valve train by removing all the rockers. If the motor spins (with the plugs out of course), you could then use a valve spring compressor tool (that pivots on the rocker stud) to see which valves are frozen. While I'm not sure if a stuck valve could stop an engine from turning, the bent rods are a clue.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Pro
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From: Boca Raton Florida
I went through this about two years ago. My 454 sat in the garage for about 25 years without being started. I removed the plugs, changed the oil and filter, squirted Mystery Oil in the cylinders and pulled the distributor. Spun the oil pump until I had about 50 psi oil pressure and kept it there for five minutes.
I put the distributor back in before cranking the engine (so I wouldn't do my usual 180-degree out install). When I tried to turn the engine by hand it was still difficult, requiring a 3-foot breaker bar. Once it started to move, I gave it about ten revolutions, put the plugs back in and poured a quarter cup of gas in the carburetor. Two seconds on the starter and it was running.
I've spent most of the past two years replacing all the worn out or aged out stuff on the car. Each time I see an end to the repairs, someone on this forum mentions another "while you've got it apart" to someone else and my car gets another to-do.
Last week it was the gas in the tank. This is what came out of the tank and no it's not used engine oil. It's a 50/50 mix of 25- and 2-year old gasoline.
I put the distributor back in before cranking the engine (so I wouldn't do my usual 180-degree out install). When I tried to turn the engine by hand it was still difficult, requiring a 3-foot breaker bar. Once it started to move, I gave it about ten revolutions, put the plugs back in and poured a quarter cup of gas in the carburetor. Two seconds on the starter and it was running.
I've spent most of the past two years replacing all the worn out or aged out stuff on the car. Each time I see an end to the repairs, someone on this forum mentions another "while you've got it apart" to someone else and my car gets another to-do.
Last week it was the gas in the tank. This is what came out of the tank and no it's not used engine oil. It's a 50/50 mix of 25- and 2-year old gasoline.
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From: Louisiana
Bad news so far. The engine is frozen solid going in either direction, and at a minimum the pushrods on the driver side head are unquestionably bent. This is now day 4 of the pistons marinating in marvel's and the rods are still left on.
That's pretty wild. What scares the hell out of me is forcing the harmonizer pulley and snapping that or compounding damage some other way through force (especially amidst all the warnings not to force it) i haven't had the chance to pull the rockers and rods yet, but i suspect the resistance im getting isn't from a stuck valve. I really hope i can catch a break. I don't mind the work since im getting an education but the minute this gets over my head and professional repair comes into play, i'll need to consider the wisdom of finding and mounting the correct engine years sooner than i thought i would.
I went through this about two years ago. My 454 sat in the garage for about 25 years without being started. I removed the plugs, changed the oil and filter, squirted Mystery Oil in the cylinders and pulled the distributor. Spun the oil pump until I had about 50 psi oil pressure and kept it there for five minutes.
I put the distributor back in before cranking the engine (so I wouldn't do my usual 180-degree out install). When I tried to turn the engine by hand it was still difficult, requiring a 3-foot breaker bar. Once it started to move, I gave it about ten revolutions, put the plugs back in and poured a quarter cup of gas in the carburetor. Two seconds on the starter and it was running.
I've spent most of the past two years replacing all the worn out or aged out stuff on the car. Each time I see an end to the repairs, someone on this forum mentions another "while you've got it apart" to someone else and my car gets another to-do.
I put the distributor back in before cranking the engine (so I wouldn't do my usual 180-degree out install). When I tried to turn the engine by hand it was still difficult, requiring a 3-foot breaker bar. Once it started to move, I gave it about ten revolutions, put the plugs back in and poured a quarter cup of gas in the carburetor. Two seconds on the starter and it was running.
I've spent most of the past two years replacing all the worn out or aged out stuff on the car. Each time I see an end to the repairs, someone on this forum mentions another "while you've got it apart" to someone else and my car gets another to-do.
Last edited by pulpsmack; Oct 19, 2010 at 09:38 PM.
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From: Florida
I bought one that was stored for a few years and this is why it was stuck.
On the other hand I stored a sbc chevy outside for about 15 years, put fresh gas in it and drove it 40 miles to another location.
So, anything is possible.
On the other hand I stored a sbc chevy outside for about 15 years, put fresh gas in it and drove it 40 miles to another location.
So, anything is possible.
