cleaning rusty dirty heads
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 26
From: Clymer PA
Re: cleaning rusty dirty heads (Tom454)
Tom:
My buddy is building a high compression (11.3:1) 327 small block. His heads are really nice but they don't have the hardened valve seats. He only has enough money to get either 2.02/1.60 valves or hardened valves seats....not both. So it would be safe to tell him to not waste his money on hardened valve seats and go with 2.02/1.60 valves? If so I'm sure he'll be happy to hear that.
based on my "real world" experience as an automotive machinist, hardened seats are not necessary (except in aluminum heads, of course).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Re: cleaning rusty dirty heads (bence13_33)
bence...
I am currently working on a set of 1967 327 heads from a 327/350.
They are in great shape, with no hardened valve seats.
Most of the valve seat recession that I have seen is the result of a machinist making a mistake while cutting the seats, or the result of someone trying to equalize chamber size... make all chambers CC to the same number.
The rest is from valves "burning" due to lack of service at the proper intervals.... including oil changes & valve seal replacement (burning oil).
If the seats in your friends heads are in good shape, and are not already "sunk", and, he is not going to use ultra high open spring pressures, then he should not have a problem.
If he is going to use extremely stiff valve springs, then hardened seats are good insurance, but again, not absolutely necessary.... not from what I have seen.
There is nothing wrong with installing hardened valve seats if you have the cash, and like the concept. It's just that in most circumstances, they are overkill. In some heads, there is a chance of cutting into the water jackets as well... you need to know up front who buys the new head if this happens (depends on the casting).
I am currently working on a set of 1967 327 heads from a 327/350.
They are in great shape, with no hardened valve seats.
Most of the valve seat recession that I have seen is the result of a machinist making a mistake while cutting the seats, or the result of someone trying to equalize chamber size... make all chambers CC to the same number.
The rest is from valves "burning" due to lack of service at the proper intervals.... including oil changes & valve seal replacement (burning oil).
If the seats in your friends heads are in good shape, and are not already "sunk", and, he is not going to use ultra high open spring pressures, then he should not have a problem.
If he is going to use extremely stiff valve springs, then hardened seats are good insurance, but again, not absolutely necessary.... not from what I have seen.
There is nothing wrong with installing hardened valve seats if you have the cash, and like the concept. It's just that in most circumstances, they are overkill. In some heads, there is a chance of cutting into the water jackets as well... you need to know up front who buys the new head if this happens (depends on the casting).
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
Likes: 1
From: Living in the Hartland
Re: cleaning rusty dirty heads (Barry's70LT1)
I don't advicate the twisty method, just wondering about the variance in behavior. I would expect them to be a little different after use since you probably can't get them all adjusted to exactly the same 'lash'. But I would hope that you could apply some sort of measuring device to them and get a pretty consistant reading, if not almost exact, when they are new. I have no idea if that means anything once you install and run an engine but i would hope there is some QC in the construction. If you can tell me what company or companies don't use some sort of QC standards for new lifters, please tell us who they are so we can stay away from their products.
BTW Some people's 'real world' is far different then others, it is just a frame of reference and/or experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
BTW Some people's 'real world' is far different then others, it is just a frame of reference and/or experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
Re: cleaning rusty dirty heads (Fevre)
Sounds like you're "fishin'" a little bit there.
"BTW Some people's 'real world' is far different then others, it is just a frame of reference and/or experience. Nothing more..... "
I took a philosophy course too... what a waste of time.
If you would like to come over to my shop, I will gladly show you why my "rael world" experience is exactly the same as everyone elses.... at least in this case. In fact, if there is anyone in the Raleigh area that would like to pay me a visit and then report back to this post, I will gladly accommodate. Any takers?
I have a brand new un-opened box of comp cams lifters on hand, as well as a pile of used lifters, and 3 small block chevies on skids.... we can play all day.
[Modified by Tom454, 8:56 AM 4/10/2002]
"BTW Some people's 'real world' is far different then others, it is just a frame of reference and/or experience. Nothing more..... "
I took a philosophy course too... what a waste of time.
If you would like to come over to my shop, I will gladly show you why my "rael world" experience is exactly the same as everyone elses.... at least in this case. In fact, if there is anyone in the Raleigh area that would like to pay me a visit and then report back to this post, I will gladly accommodate. Any takers?
I have a brand new un-opened box of comp cams lifters on hand, as well as a pile of used lifters, and 3 small block chevies on skids.... we can play all day.
[Modified by Tom454, 8:56 AM 4/10/2002]
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
I have a 85 chevy s10 that i bought over thw weekend and the head has been sitting in the bed for a while and im looking to salvage it. The entire thing is rusted. Do you think it will work on my iron head?
Last edited by Purpl3king; Apr 25, 2017 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Forgot punctuation
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 289
From: Spring Park MN
Just my 2 cents on hardened, non hardened seats. The only time I have seen any significant valve seat recession in cast as is seats is on very high load applications, such as a motorhome towing a large race trailer all over the country. I doubt any Corvette would ever get that kind of use.
Mike
Mike
