Aluminum Head Question?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
at acceleration. These rings are not an issue, this started immediatly after fire up with the new heads. My mechanic agrees that it could be a intake problem but he seems to think it would stop smoking after being run for a few minutes. Well I'm hoping you can give me your input, sure will be appreciated.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...illy_nilly.gif
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
Well that symptom is a classic valve seal symptom but with brand new heads it sure seems unlikely they're bad. Does it smoke from both sides or just one? If from one side possibly you could narrow it down some by looking at the plugs after a brief start up. I would be nice to have an idea where the oil was coming from but I think you're going to have to pull the intake a have a look. If it's smoking equally from both sides I'm kind of stumped how it could be head related. Maybe some others can offer some suggestions.
I suppose it's possible you have a defective head that's sucking oil somewhere too.
I suppose it's possible you have a defective head that's sucking oil somewhere too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,346
Likes: 418
From: Seattle Area WA
I think its an intake to head sealing problem. I've chased this same type of thing in the past with milled heads where the standard thickness gasket would not seal. In your case the heads may be a bit taller throwing off the geometry just enough not to make a good seal.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
Well that symptom is a classic valve seal symptom but with brand new heads it sure seems unlikely they're bad. Does it smoke from both sides or just one? If from one side possibly you could narrow it down some by looking at the plugs after a brief start up. I would be nice to have an idea where the oil was coming from but I think you're going to have to pull the intake a have a look. If it's smoking equally from both sides I'm kind of stumped how it could be head related. Maybe some others can offer some suggestions.
I suppose it's possible you have a defective head that's sucking oil somewhere too.
I suppose it's possible you have a defective head that's sucking oil somewhere too.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: League City TX
Brodix says that they were asked not to install them so many times that they just stopped using them.
You have to remember that not all that long ago the racing market was the only people buying from companies like Brodix.
On a race car, many guys feel like well lubricated valve guides are more important than having an engine that never smokes.
Not having the exhaust seals will very likely cause the puff of smoke at start up.
Opinions seem to vary about after the engine has been running for a while.
Its easy to argue that the exhaust side is under pressure once running and not a worry, but I have heard of (but not seen) people adding the seals and stopping the constant smoking.
Its worth a shot anyway.
You have to remember that not all that long ago the racing market was the only people buying from companies like Brodix.
On a race car, many guys feel like well lubricated valve guides are more important than having an engine that never smokes.
Not having the exhaust seals will very likely cause the puff of smoke at start up.
Opinions seem to vary about after the engine has been running for a while.
Its easy to argue that the exhaust side is under pressure once running and not a worry, but I have heard of (but not seen) people adding the seals and stopping the constant smoking.
Its worth a shot anyway.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
Brodix says that they were asked not to install them so many times that they just stopped using them.
You have to remember that not all that long ago the racing market was the only people buying from companies like Brodix.
On a race car, many guys feel like well lubricated valve guides are more important than having an engine that never smokes.
Not having the exhaust seals will very likely cause the puff of smoke at start up.
Opinions seem to vary about after the engine has been running for a while.
Its easy to argue that the exhaust side is under pressure once running and not a worry, but I have heard of (but not seen) people adding the seals and stopping the constant smoking.
Its worth a shot anyway.
You have to remember that not all that long ago the racing market was the only people buying from companies like Brodix.
On a race car, many guys feel like well lubricated valve guides are more important than having an engine that never smokes.
Not having the exhaust seals will very likely cause the puff of smoke at start up.
Opinions seem to vary about after the engine has been running for a while.
Its easy to argue that the exhaust side is under pressure once running and not a worry, but I have heard of (but not seen) people adding the seals and stopping the constant smoking.
Its worth a shot anyway.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
I don't think your car is smoking because there's no valve seals on the exhaust valves, there's some other problem. My car doesn't smoke a bit and never has. Did Brodix say it was very likely smoking because the seals were not present or did he give them to you because you asked?
I get the impression from your description that the car smokes big time when you start it. I don't see that happening on a new set of heads even without seals.
Let us know how this works out
I get the impression from your description that the car smokes big time when you start it. I don't see that happening on a new set of heads even without seals.
Let us know how this works out
Last edited by TopGunn; Jan 26, 2011 at 08:01 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
I don't think your car is smoking because there's no valve seals on the exhaust valves, there's some other problem. My car doesn't smoke a bit and never has. Did Brodix say it was very likely smoking because the seals were not present or did he give them to you because you asked?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
When you put your heads on did you notice any smoke at all. If not then I think I have a intake leak. Also what were your heads on a SBC? Also what intake do you have and what gasket did you use. If you have this info I'll appreciate it. Thanks
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 4
From: Somers CT
My heads are on a 350, cam is the same one they use in the ZZ383, my intake is a Weiand and I used the Felpro 1204 gasket. Head gasket was .032 thick.
I know this sounds real stupid but you don't have a Vortec intake and regular heads do you?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
I didn't notice any smoke, there was probably a little buring off the piston tops and combustion chamber but I never saw it.
My heads are on a 350, cam is the same one they use in the ZZ383, my intake is a Weiand and I used the Felpro 1204 gasket. Head gasket was .032 thick.
I know this sounds real stupid but you don't have a Vortec intake and regular heads do you?
My heads are on a 350, cam is the same one they use in the ZZ383, my intake is a Weiand and I used the Felpro 1204 gasket. Head gasket was .032 thick.
I know this sounds real stupid but you don't have a Vortec intake and regular heads do you?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,346
Likes: 418
From: Seattle Area WA
The 1256 is not the thick seal like the 1245 Larry recommended but hopefully you can see the impressions in the old gasket and see if they were deeper at the top than at the bottom which means you need the thicker gasket.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Lotsa regional CT racers run zero-deck 350 with HEAVILY milled 76cc iron heads (cut to 70cc).
Their intakes never fit right out of the box. So, intake boltholes get "elongated-oblonged" with a die grinder or drillbit; Aside from that, rules require alum EB2101 with absolutely NO further mods/machinework. But, even so, they'll usually leak. And seasoned builders know that up front ... so ... builders assemble to Prevent likely leaks.
Leaks Prevented with PLAIN CHEAP intake gaskets and judicious use of hi-temp RTV silicone around all charge ports & water ports. YMMV.
Their intakes never fit right out of the box. So, intake boltholes get "elongated-oblonged" with a die grinder or drillbit; Aside from that, rules require alum EB2101 with absolutely NO further mods/machinework. But, even so, they'll usually leak. And seasoned builders know that up front ... so ... builders assemble to Prevent likely leaks.
Leaks Prevented with PLAIN CHEAP intake gaskets and judicious use of hi-temp RTV silicone around all charge ports & water ports. YMMV.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: Bishop CA
Lotsa regional CT racers run zero-deck 350 with HEAVILY milled 76cc iron heads (cut to 70cc).
Their intakes never fit right out of the box. So, intake boltholes get "elongated-oblonged" with a die grinder or drillbit; Aside from that, rules require alum EB2101 with absolutely NO further mods/machinework. But, even so, they'll usually leak. And seasoned builders know that up front ... so ... builders assemble to Prevent likely leaks.
Leaks Prevented with PLAIN CHEAP intake gaskets and judicious use of hi-temp RTV silicone around all charge ports & water ports. YMMV.
Their intakes never fit right out of the box. So, intake boltholes get "elongated-oblonged" with a die grinder or drillbit; Aside from that, rules require alum EB2101 with absolutely NO further mods/machinework. But, even so, they'll usually leak. And seasoned builders know that up front ... so ... builders assemble to Prevent likely leaks.
Leaks Prevented with PLAIN CHEAP intake gaskets and judicious use of hi-temp RTV silicone around all charge ports & water ports. YMMV.