I've seen all the posts of you guys who did great jobs painting your cars and now I have the bug. I painted a few cars in the 'old days', when acrylic lacquer was still available to the masses; I did some partial painting with urethane on my El Camino SS - mainly door jams and trim; and I played around with catalyzed enamel when I painted my frame. Now its time to make up my mind if I want to get back into it on the whole car. As it is, I'm stripping and doing much of the prep work on my own. I have about 1/3 of the car stripped (with a razor), and plan to block sand through the factory GM primer layer. If I farm out the paint I'll hand it off at this point. If I paint it myself I assume I'll shoot some polyester filler and some guide coat to block the body out smooth and prime and paint.

The body was and will be black so I know I won't get hit with the cost of premium colors. The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to make a decision whether to paint myself or take it to a proven shop (I"ve worked with them before) who does awesome work for about $1900 (because I've done 95% of the prep.).



Here's the questions:

I read recently that 2-stage painting is great but on non-metallic solid colors single stage can be a better choice. Any comments?

What can I expect to spend on materials for a good urethane (single or 2-stage) job? How much will I need? How many different products? (Note: right now I have Binks #7 but may step up to a Sharpe HVLP gun).

What about positive pressure fresh air breathing apparatus? I imagine that's a requirement for working with isocyanates. How much can I expect to spend?

Thanks in advance for the input.


[Modified by 69L71, 2:56 PM 4/17/2002]

 

My initial reaction. I'm no expert, an amature at best...but my $.02 If a good shop will primer, block that smooth, paint BC/CC and color sand and buff. $1900 is a heck of a deal....in my oppinion, and you have proven work. I maybe wouldn't have said that previously, but after trying it myself, its easy to see why these guys charge thousands.

The only reason I think single stage would be better is because its cheaper. I also beleive its popular with light colors such as white, but with black....I'd lean towards BC/CC (vettefixer did a heck of a job with the old laquer..which is much easier on the health concerns for you....but its getting hard to find in some states. But if taken care of Laquer looks awesom). The coats of Clear...is what really give the deep shine.

I'd expect to spend between $700-$1000 in materials. You'll have primers, sealer, paints, tons of sand paper, and good quality maksing paper. You will get a little break for going with black as it is the cheapest color. But you get a penalty for blocking body will have to be perfect....black shows everything. It is my favorite color though...and nothing beats a nice black car with a mile shine.

On the gun, heck I used a Harbor Freight knock off HVLP gun. I was relatively pleased with it. Check out the paper by lars on http://www.corvettefaq.com on painting...sounds like he uses a cheap gun for his personal stuff at home. But if you want a proven gun, let me know, I have a link to buy Sharpe HVLP factory refurbed guns from Sharpe for around $200...can't go wrong with that decision. You're binks may be good too?

You can get a hobby air system from Eastwood for about $300-$350 that's the optimum choice with urethanes. I didn't, I used a dual cartridge charcoal filter mask...and got some of the real strong scented interior car spray...sprayed it around the mask, and adjusted until I couldn't smell it...also used the goggles, suite and head sock. I picked these tips up from the videos at http://www.paintucation.com

Check out my website, I have links to the places/resources I used. A good message board for paint questions comes in real handy if you try it yourself.

My car isn't perfect by any means, but I learned a ton (no substitute for experience no matter how many books/videos you look at) and plan on doing another car, maybe even my own over again, eventually.

Oh I forgot, I'm disappointed I didn't do the polyester spray filler...like that was mentioned in a recent post. Stuff supposedly rocks for blocking, and eliminates shrinkage. Next car I do will be done with this.

 

Btw: You're body looks in the perfect stage for the work....now that's what I call stripped! :jester

 

It's a $1000 bucks to use PPG and buy the good materials. If you want my list of all materials and cost email me and I will send it. It's out on the archives, but I can't reminder where, so I can email it if you want. Bottom line- Do it yourself.

 

Did you ever want to take that thing out like Fred Flintstone does. Thats the first thing that came to my mind when I saw it. Just get in and start the feet a rollin. You should take it down the block for a spin :D

:flag

 

I'd expect $1000 - $1500 in supplies including the paint. Definately use the sprayable filler as it will make the job much easier and it's not that expensive.
I'd go two stage with black. The shine is better IMO. The only reasons I would use single stage would be cost and dirt. Shooting black, you won't have to worry much about seeing any dirt specs after you buff it out. On light colors, shooting at home, each coat of clear is an extra chance to encapsulate a beautiful spec of dark dirt for all to see!

I like my DevilBiss guns the best and they cost around $300.00. I bought the first HVLP gun that came to town and I was too turned off by it's performance to try another. I hear they are much better now - it was a Criox brand. My SurviveAir system cost about $600.00 as I recall. It works great but for one paint job I'd try to find a safe alternative.

And most importantly (to me anyway)... For the Love of God.... Move the 69 vert away when you spray anything! :jester

 

Don't worry Larry.... Despite the insurance company delays you can be sure the 'vert will be roughly 953.5 miles away (according to Maptech) before I start doing any painting... :lol:

Clink69: It does look a bit flintstone-ish, but alas the floors prohibit foot power. I will say that it was NOT a good idea to have 4 swivel wheels... Pushing that sucker around makes me wonder if it handles any better than Fred's machine.

Paul 75 L82: I was able to dig up your list off the archives. Thanks. Very thorough. Its alot to think about.

It looks like ~$1000 is about right for materials, then I need to consider the gun, resperator, and stuff. Seems like My guy's $1900 price is pretty good. I absolutely trust his work. I took my ElCamino SS to one NCOA show before I sold it (to work on the vette) and it took best paint. In fact my 96 LT4 is in his shop right now getting a new hood from the lift accident. His paint work is so good I'm having the rest of the car stripped and repainted. I almost cringe thinking about repainting a 24Kmi LT4, but its also black, and GMs late model paint is nothing to be proud of. It'll be like glass when I get it back.

The other upside to using him is that I can continue working on the rest of the car in parallel, and hopefully have the chassis fully completed (with Richmond 5-speed) and have the interior ready to reinstall. The downside is that I've restored/reworked every bolt on this car and it would be very cool to say it's 100% me!

Looks like I have more thinking to do.


[Modified by 69L71, 4:00 PM 4/17/2002]

 

LOL - That distance should keep the overspray off!

 

69L71
I see that your "shaving" is coming along nicely. I have a 69 vert that I will be starting on in about 1-2 months. It was originally Daytona Yellow, however, it has picked up a few coats of Bubba blue over the years. I know it is not "easy" to strip the car with a razor, but how "hard" is it? How deep are you trying to go? I guess with the proposed polyester filler a few gouges will not be that big of a deal. Are you merely trying to lift the paint, or are you going through the primer? How many hours do you have in the 1st third? Finally, how are your stripping the corners and hard to get at areas?

 

Its actually really increadibly easy. The paint is coming off in sheets. BUT recognize that this car still has all original GM lacquer - just one coat. I imagine that several coats of lacquer, enamel, and or urethane would make the job a lot harder. I find that, as long as I keep the angle of the blade low, I rarely gouge below the primer. Yeah, it happens now and then but even so, the gouge is rarely any worse than 90% of the dings and chips already on the body. I expect blocking the factory primer down close to the gelcoat level will kill of most of the chips and gouges. Polyester feather fill will take care of the rest.

Tight corners are obviously more of a challenge. You develop techniques just from doing it that make it workable, but still, if the area is too tight I just leave it and will address it via sanding later.

I might submit a post about how to strip with a blade. I've been taking pics of how well it works.

 

Obviously part of that $1900 is paint and materials. Get a price from the local auto paint store on what you'll need and deduct that from $1900. That's the real price you'll be paying your guy to paint it for you. The question then is: What's your time worth?

 

I don't know much about urethane paints other than the fact that you better have a good fresh air delivery system for your respirator. From what I've read the urethanes spray much like lacquer and can be color sanded and buffed. I would think that your experience with lacquers should transfer nicely to urethanes. If you're mind is made up on urethane the prices quoted are valid. But since you said your car is going to be black you should still be able to get black lacquer. I just bought a few quarts of Dupont Diamond Black and 380s clearcoat about a month ago for touch up on my 74. The cost for lacquer is about $75 - $90 a gallon with thinners running about $30 - $40 a gallon. You can get high build primer surfacer for about 1/3 less than the paint so your total outlay shouldn't come to more than $300 - $400 dollars. the downside is that lacquer is a lot more delicate than urethane and doesn't wear as well. this isn't a problem for me because the car is garaged and pampered. You'll have to judge whether the additional cost of urethane is warranted for your car and driving conditions. The good aspect of lacquer is that you can spray it with a cannister type respirator, it dries almost instantly so you don't have to worry about dust too much, and it's easily touched up. Just another point of view for you to consider.