69 4 spd transmission help!
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Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Wellesley Island New York
69 4 spd transmission help!
Ok, I finally got the motor dropped in and the transmission installed. The drive train is complete. I haven't hooked up the shifter yet or the clutch pedal to release fork linkage. I'm trying to get the motor started and get it broke in. I ran a push button start directly from the starter. I did this by running a positive battery cable directly to the big bolt on the back of the starter, then ran a cable from the positive terminal to the push button start and then to the small bolt on the left side of the starter (as you look at it) Im sure this is were the ignition is suppose to run to. Then I ground the battery to the engine block. Any ways, without the shifter hooked up I cant get the car in neutral to start the motor. I sat under there for hours trying to play around to get in neutral. I then figured if I'd pull back on the release fork, it would hold it in neutral while my wife hit the starter. This didn't work either. I'm confused and have hit another road block, in this rebuild. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers
Mike
Mike
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Tolland CT
I don't know how you can pull back on the clutch release arm to disengage the clutch without having the pedal linkages in place. That's an awful lot of pressure to keep on the arm.
You have three arms on the transmission, all need to be in neutral. You should be able to do this from below. The 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th shifter arms should be in the center position. For reverse, I forget, there are two positions, don't recall which is engaged.
Does the engine turn over all all? If the transmission has more than one of the gear sets engaged, it will lock the transmission and the engine with it unless the clutch is released. If only one gear set is engaged, the engine should turn over though the car will move either forward or reverse, gives a clue as to which is engaged, a forward gear or reverse.
You have three arms on the transmission, all need to be in neutral. You should be able to do this from below. The 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th shifter arms should be in the center position. For reverse, I forget, there are two positions, don't recall which is engaged.
Does the engine turn over all all? If the transmission has more than one of the gear sets engaged, it will lock the transmission and the engine with it unless the clutch is released. If only one gear set is engaged, the engine should turn over though the car will move either forward or reverse, gives a clue as to which is engaged, a forward gear or reverse.
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From: Wellesley Island New York
I had made sure it was in neutral, I actually did have it in reverse. After I popped that one into neutral, I tried to start it again. The starter clicks once and then stops.. Is my starter shot? I don't have fuel running to it yet, because I'm trying to make sure it turns over before I go any further, plus it's easier to find top dead center that way. In reference to the release fork. I can pull it back with my hand pretty easy, then it hits the firewall, I'm praying it's not the wrong clutch fork.. The transmission was a pain enough to get it, I'd hate to have to do it again. I also think I had reverse and another gear in place when I tried to turn it over.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Japan
As for the starting issue, I would start at the source- make sure you've got a strong battery in there, that everything related to the starting circuit is properly connected and the connections are CLEAN, especially the grounds. It sounds from what you're describing that the starter is getting enough juice to close the solenoid but there isn't enough left to turn over the (new/tight) engine. It's gonna take a battery with some grunt to turn over a brand-new engine, so if the one in the car is marginal I'd fix that before I went any further, either put a good charge on it or replace it (at least temporarily) with a known good unit and go from there. If your starter is old and tired you'll want to look at that next.
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From: Wellesley Island New York
The battery is brand new, so that shouldn't be the problem. I'm worried it could be the starter, yet, if this was the case, I think I would hear a continuous clicking noise; not just one click and stop. I'm not for sure though. Could it be the engine and transmission are stuck, like what was previously mentioned?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: charlotte north carolina
was the engine rebuilt? can you turn the engine by hand, using the damper wheel bolt? was there any other wiring connected when you bumped the starter? put a voltmeter on the battery and see if the voltage drops when you hit the "start" switch.
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From: Wellesley Island New York
The engine is a crate motor, not rebuilt. It can turn the motor by hand when I turn the harmonic balancer. Absolutely no other wiring is hooked up. Ill check the voltage in a little bit. If it does or doesn't drop the voltage, what does this mean?
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From: Wellesley Island New York
Ok, I checked the voltage. It does drop when I hit the starter, then goes back up when I release it. This time I used a different battery, it did the same old click once and stop, the 3rd time it had done a continuous clicking noise, then again the 4th time was a continuous clicking. I hope I didn't burn out the starter. Its the original starter for the year, I heard they where impossible to ruin.
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I had made sure it was in neutral, I actually did have it in reverse. After I popped that one into neutral, I tried to start it again. The starter clicks once and then stops.. Is my starter shot? I don't have fuel running to it yet, because I'm trying to make sure it turns over before I go any further, plus it's easier to find top dead center that way. In reference to the release fork. I can pull it back with my hand pretty easy, then it hits the firewall, I'm praying it's not the wrong clutch fork.. The transmission was a pain enough to get it, I'd hate to have to do it again. I also think I had reverse and another gear in place when I tried to turn it over.
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From: Wellesley Island New York
What could the problem be? Its a brand new clutch, pressure plate, fork and throwout bearing. It's not that complicated putting that stuff together. Where could I have went wrong? Do you think the fork may be to long, and its hitting my firewall before it gets pressure on the clutch? Or will it be tough pull regardless with no play in the fork and bearing?
Also to JNB, when I had the continuous clicking noise, I went to remove the clamps from the battery terminal and they were warm to the touch.
Also to JNB, when I had the continuous clicking noise, I went to remove the clamps from the battery terminal and they were warm to the touch.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Tolland CT
There's no way the poster should be able to disengage the clutch by hand.
What could the problem be? Its a brand new clutch, pressure plate, fork and throwout bearing. It's not that complicated putting that stuff together. Where could I have went wrong? Do you think the fork may be to long, and its hitting my firewall before it gets pressure on the clutch? Or will it be tough pull regardless with no play in the fork and bearing?
You say you can turn the engine over by putting a socket on the balancer bolt? It's not jammed in some way?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Utah
The starter should be easy to pull and take to an auto parts store for testing. That's the easiest way to rule that out. I guess you could remove it and bench test it, but my luck the torque would spin it and it would fall on the floor or my foot and break it.
If your throwout bearing isn't installed correctly, it won't have the correct throw. I guess it's easy to install it on the fork wrong since I've read the warning in a number of places.
If your throwout bearing isn't installed correctly, it won't have the correct throw. I guess it's easy to install it on the fork wrong since I've read the warning in a number of places.
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From: Wellesley Island New York
It is possible that the throwout bearing is not installed properly. I noticed that it had fit loosely into the fork. The new one I purchased (that broke during install) had fit a lot more snug than the one I have in there now. I will check that out. Also how much room is suppose to be between the fork and the firewall? I think I have maybe 1-2 inches between the two.
The connections are all clean, most of which is brand new.
I can rotate the motor over with a breaker bar on the balancer, doesn't seem to be jammed at all.
I'm going to do a bench test on the starter, I'll let you know how that goes. Hope I dont break it or my foot.
I'm sure I installed it right, whether it slipped off or not is another problem all together. When I move the fork back and forth, I think it's in there. It may have come off the ball, but i stuck my finger in there it seems all good.
The connections are all clean, most of which is brand new.
I can rotate the motor over with a breaker bar on the balancer, doesn't seem to be jammed at all.
I'm going to do a bench test on the starter, I'll let you know how that goes. Hope I dont break it or my foot.
I'm sure I installed it right, whether it slipped off or not is another problem all together. When I move the fork back and forth, I think it's in there. It may have come off the ball, but i stuck my finger in there it seems all good.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: charlotte north carolina
if you can turn the engine by hand, nothing is binding. your warm battery clamps indicate a poor connection. clean all connections. check for loose crimps. the battery voltage shoud drop to about 10 when the starter is drawing current. the continuous clicking indicates not enough power is getting to the starter.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 423
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From: Utah
if you can turn the engine by hand, nothing is binding. your warm battery clamps indicate a poor connection. clean all connections. check for loose crimps. the battery voltage shoud drop to about 10 when the starter is drawing current. the continuous clicking indicates not enough power is getting to the starter.
Clean ALL connections to the starter. Pos and Neg. Good Luck!
