Water in oil help
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
Roger, there is certainly nothing conclusive in those pics, and if you're like me I'm sure you're not too thrilled about the prospect of yanking the motor out but I'm afraid that's what's gonna have to happen. Again there's no guarantee that you're gonna find a sleeve or two in there but I suspect if you do it will be leaking from the bottom where the water is dripping directly into the oil pan and not getting vaporized as it would by leaking through the top. Again, if the source of the leak is coming from one of the hard parts (block or heads) and not one of the gaskets, and it is NOT visible to the eye then you'll need to have it magnafluxed or zyglo'd in order to see where the defect is. I actually ran my Ford for about three years with it pi$$ing coolant into the oil, even RACED it for one season before I went and sourced another non-sleeved block, but that was pure laziness and not a little stupidity on my part and I wouldn't advise it here. For your own peace of mind you need to take that sucker apart and get to the bottom of the problem...when you finally do get it figured out you'll be glad you did.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 437
Likes: 3
From: Alvin Texas
I found this on a Camero forum:
" I have a set of new STD bore pistons marked GM 3963550 and TRW on the inside. The GMPP book I have shows a 3963551, but not what I have. I'd like to know the CR and if open/closed chamber. From appearance, I would guess 11.0 and OC Thanks..."
Taking the motor to your engine shop is a smart move, they should be able to pressure the systems. Oil in coolant would get my attention.
" I have a set of new STD bore pistons marked GM 3963550 and TRW on the inside. The GMPP book I have shows a 3963551, but not what I have. I'd like to know the CR and if open/closed chamber. From appearance, I would guess 11.0 and OC Thanks..."
Taking the motor to your engine shop is a smart move, they should be able to pressure the systems. Oil in coolant would get my attention.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 680
Likes: 5
From: Denham Springs LA
Birdsmith,
I will definitely be pulling the motor. Looks like my work trip tonight and tomorrow is being postponed so I am going to start pulling it tonight.
When I was a teenager my dad raced stock cars at local tracks. Me, my dad, and brother could pull an engine in about 6 to 8 minutes. Of course there were not many parts under the hood other than the engine. If I can get my brother over to help we will have it out in about 2 hours. It's not that big of a deal to me physically. Mentally I have to stop being pizzed off about being a sucker and get it done.
Bpassmore,
Here's part of the email from the seller (Charlies Old Cars)
"i gave the information that you emailed me to my current engine builder,he said that the trw pistons are the correct repalcement for the factory pistons,they would have used them to keep from boring the motor,they would not have bored it unless they had to"
Still amazes me every time I read it.
Roger
I will definitely be pulling the motor. Looks like my work trip tonight and tomorrow is being postponed so I am going to start pulling it tonight.
When I was a teenager my dad raced stock cars at local tracks. Me, my dad, and brother could pull an engine in about 6 to 8 minutes. Of course there were not many parts under the hood other than the engine. If I can get my brother over to help we will have it out in about 2 hours. It's not that big of a deal to me physically. Mentally I have to stop being pizzed off about being a sucker and get it done.
Bpassmore,
Here's part of the email from the seller (Charlies Old Cars)
"i gave the information that you emailed me to my current engine builder,he said that the trw pistons are the correct repalcement for the factory pistons,they would have used them to keep from boring the motor,they would not have bored it unless they had to"
Still amazes me every time I read it.
Roger
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
Roger, if it's any consolation I wound up pulling the motor out of my '70 THREE times after my machinist inadvertently angle-milled my numbers-matching heads and I spent the next year or so chasing the vacuum-induced oil leak that mysteriously appeared through my intake manifold. Good luck with this thing and keep us posted- it'll be interesting to see how many other gremlins you can chase out of there!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 680
Likes: 5
From: Denham Springs LA
68-427Rich,
I don't believe I have parts mismatch. Here's what I have
14015445 Gen IV block Hi Perf 4 bolt mains Dated Aug 27 1980
6272990 Rect Port Heads Dated Aug 24 1979
3933163 GM Aluminum Intake
Felpro Head Gasket 1027
Felpro Intake Gasket 1211
Let me know if you see any problems.
Thanks
Roger
I don't believe I have parts mismatch. Here's what I have
14015445 Gen IV block Hi Perf 4 bolt mains Dated Aug 27 1980
6272990 Rect Port Heads Dated Aug 24 1979
3933163 GM Aluminum Intake
Felpro Head Gasket 1027
Felpro Intake Gasket 1211
Let me know if you see any problems.
Thanks
Roger
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 680
Likes: 5
From: Denham Springs LA
I didn't overhaul it. I bought it this way. First time I found water in oil I replaced head gaskets and intake gasket. Then found water in oil again.
I called the guy I bought the engine from, he's going to try and find a block for me. Not what I want but better than nothing.
Roger
I called the guy I bought the engine from, he's going to try and find a block for me. Not what I want but better than nothing.
Roger
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,593
Likes: 103
From: Southern Indiana
$4500.
Id sue just to drag him in court just for the fun of it.
Meanwhile you got hosed pure and simple.
Put the engine back in and drive it until it blows, get some miles out of it because it sounds like once you tear it down you will find its un-buildable.
Id sue just to drag him in court just for the fun of it.
Meanwhile you got hosed pure and simple.
Put the engine back in and drive it until it blows, get some miles out of it because it sounds like once you tear it down you will find its un-buildable.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,506
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Sounds to me like it's already torn down and is unbuildable, but intentionally running it until it blows while knowing there's a major problem probably won't sit well with a judge.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 680
Likes: 5
From: Denham Springs LA
[Is he going to replace the pistons too? ]
Bashcraft, I don't know if he will or not. I'm not getting my hopes up.
[$4500.
Id sue just to drag him in court just for the fun of it.
Meanwhile you got hosed pure and simple.
Put the engine back in and drive it until it blows, get some miles out of it because it sounds like once you tear it down you will find its un-buildable. ]
Tim,
The engine is already torn down. Sounds like you used to race oval track. My dad did and I bet he tore up at least a dozen motors that way. Interesting that several motors ran their very best just before they came apart. He would say the motor is just about "through", then the engine would run like a spotted ape for about 10 laps, then something in the bottom end would come apart.
I don't want to hastle with this in court but I do believe in advertising. I'll give this guy plenty of advertising (not the kind you want) if it doesn't work out. He gave me his word that he would take care of it, time will tell.
I knew it was somewhat of a gamble when I bought the engine so i'll be just as mad at myself for this deal. I didn't want to wait and do some research.
Roger
Bashcraft, I don't know if he will or not. I'm not getting my hopes up.
[$4500.
Id sue just to drag him in court just for the fun of it.
Meanwhile you got hosed pure and simple.
Put the engine back in and drive it until it blows, get some miles out of it because it sounds like once you tear it down you will find its un-buildable. ]
Tim,
The engine is already torn down. Sounds like you used to race oval track. My dad did and I bet he tore up at least a dozen motors that way. Interesting that several motors ran their very best just before they came apart. He would say the motor is just about "through", then the engine would run like a spotted ape for about 10 laps, then something in the bottom end would come apart.
I don't want to hastle with this in court but I do believe in advertising. I'll give this guy plenty of advertising (not the kind you want) if it doesn't work out. He gave me his word that he would take care of it, time will tell.
I knew it was somewhat of a gamble when I bought the engine so i'll be just as mad at myself for this deal. I didn't want to wait and do some research.
Roger
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
My only suggestion here is that you tackle this a bit differently - the builder is saying they'll "take care of it"...that's great, but GET DETAILS on exactly what you're going to get. What machine work will be done, what parts will be used, etc.
Any decent builder should provide a "build book" of materials, services, clearances, P/N's, etc.
Any decent builder should provide a "build book" of materials, services, clearances, P/N's, etc.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 680
Likes: 5
From: Denham Springs LA
My only suggestion here is that you tackle this a bit differently - the builder is saying they'll "take care of it"...that's great, but GET DETAILS on exactly what you're going to get. What machine work will be done, what parts will be used, etc.
Any decent builder should provide a "build book" of materials, services, clearances, P/N's, etc.
Any decent builder should provide a "build book" of materials, services, clearances, P/N's, etc.
Yep, good advice. I'll take it.
The engine is at Tim's, a local machine shop that I know and trust (who I should have used to build an engine to begin with). The guy (Charlie) I bought the engine from is planning to send me a good block so I can reuse the pistons, along with other parts (crank, rods, cam, heads, etc). Tim's checked out the other parts and they are in good shape. Turns out the pistons that I thought were mismatched, are not. They are all stamped TRW L24?? on the bottom side.
Tim's will check the block Charlie sends me and make sure its good. One way or the other (my nickel or Charlies) the engine will be built right. Before any work is done Tim's will give a detailed build sheet with costs for each thing they are doing.
I am considering changing the intake, cam, and heads. I really like the things I read about VectorPRO. I am hoping to make 550 to 600hp and still have good street manners. I want to run my car at the local dragstrip, looking for mid 11's.
Roger
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,428
Likes: 5
From: Japan
Roger, it sounds like you've turned the corner on this deal...were the cracks visible in the block or did you have to find them some other way like magnaflux, zyglo, etc.? As far as the whole lawsuit deal goes I don't know what your past experience might be with these matters but as for myself I have reached the conclusion that the legal system works primarily for the benefit of itself and uses guys like us for entertainment and whatever little profit it can squeeze us for...probably best to just hope that Charlie provides you with a serviceable block and take it from there. Just make sure that if/when you do finally get it that you have it thoroughly checked before spending any more $$$ on it!