Ignition Problem
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 65
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From: Houston TX
Ignition Problem
So I was troubleshooting why my '75 auto with tilt won't start - when I turn the key to the first position the electric fans and fuel pump come on. When I turn to run everything turns off and the car does not turn over. The battery and starter were removed and tested - no problems. I tried to pull the key out and now it is stuck. The ignition won't press in allowing the key to be removed. Also, for several weeks now the car has turned over very slowly - barely turning, then catching and starting. Any advice on how to get the key out then test the ignition? Thanks.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 2
From: Lowell MA
Sounds like you may have 2 separate conditions. First of all, you don't have to push the ignition cylinder in to bring it to the key removal position unless you own a Honda. You do have to push it in to go to Acc position. A cracked or broken pinion sector gear (plastic) which engages the end of the ignition cylinder to the toothed rack which drives linkage to the electrical switch mounted on the lower portion of the column could be your problem.
Have someone with knowledge pull the ignition cylinder and check the pastic sector gear as the first step.
Have someone with knowledge pull the ignition cylinder and check the pastic sector gear as the first step.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 112
From: Saginaw Michigan
As mentioned above, there is a direct connection between your key and/or ignition lock cylinder, the plastic sector gear, a small die cast rack, and the rod that extends down from the steering column head to the ignition switch that is mounted on top of the steering column jacket (down under the dash.)
Disconnect your battery! Now rotate the ignition key and note if the rod down under the dash (attached to the ignition switch) is moving directly with the key. Tilt the steering wheel up and down and try the same test. The rod should always move directly with the rotation of the key.
There is a common problem where the die cast rack can break with long term use. Sometimes the broken rack still allows the key to actuate the ignition switch when the column head is tilted in a certain direction. (If the plastic sector is broken, tilting the head won't make any difference.)
If the rod and key always move together; then the problem could be worn out switch contacts. You could try adjusting the switch or just replace it. Don't forget that there are two different switches. One for standard columns the other for tilt and/or T&T columns.
Jim
Disconnect your battery! Now rotate the ignition key and note if the rod down under the dash (attached to the ignition switch) is moving directly with the key. Tilt the steering wheel up and down and try the same test. The rod should always move directly with the rotation of the key.
There is a common problem where the die cast rack can break with long term use. Sometimes the broken rack still allows the key to actuate the ignition switch when the column head is tilted in a certain direction. (If the plastic sector is broken, tilting the head won't make any difference.)
If the rod and key always move together; then the problem could be worn out switch contacts. You could try adjusting the switch or just replace it. Don't forget that there are two different switches. One for standard columns the other for tilt and/or T&T columns.
Jim
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 65
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From: Houston TX
Thanks, Jim.
The rod seems to be working fine in all positions, although since the key is stuck in the first position I can't rotate the key back to remove it. Can you recommend how best to remove the key? Feels like I will break something if I force it.
The rod seems to be working fine in all positions, although since the key is stuck in the first position I can't rotate the key back to remove it. Can you recommend how best to remove the key? Feels like I will break something if I force it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,001
Likes: 112
From: Saginaw Michigan
Check if the lever on the lower end of the steering column (underhood, out under the brake master cylinder) is moving all the way up when you shift into REVERSE (manual trans) or into PARK (auto trans). There is a cable coming from the transmission to that lever.
Disconnect the cable from the pin on the lever and manually move the lever full UP. (About the 1 o'clock position as if you could view the lever from the driver seat.) See if that allows you to rotate the ignition key to OFF-LOCK.
Jim
Disconnect the cable from the pin on the lever and manually move the lever full UP. (About the 1 o'clock position as if you could view the lever from the driver seat.) See if that allows you to rotate the ignition key to OFF-LOCK.
Jim
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 65
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From: Houston TX
Jim, you are awesome. I got the key out and the car starts now with no issues. I did pull my starter and clean some very dirty connections, so I'm not sure what kept the car from starting before. Thanks!
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Check if the lever on the lower end of the steering column (underhood, out under the brake master cylinder) is moving all the way up when you shift into REVERSE (manual trans) or into PARK (auto trans). There is a cable coming from the transmission to that lever.
Disconnect the cable from the pin on the lever and manually move the lever full UP. (About the 1 o'clock position as if you could view the lever from the driver seat.) See if that allows you to rotate the ignition key to OFF-LOCK.
Jim
Disconnect the cable from the pin on the lever and manually move the lever full UP. (About the 1 o'clock position as if you could view the lever from the driver seat.) See if that allows you to rotate the ignition key to OFF-LOCK.
Jim
I just encountered the same issue with my 1970 4sp Vette when I just got it out from winter storage. It didn't seem to want to fully engage into reserve at shut down time, and the key would not rotate fully back into the locking position and come out. (I have had no prior issues with this until it sat for the last 6 months). I was actually able to move the lever you spoke of without disengaging the cable, and after a couple of attempts at doing this with depressing the clutch and trying to shift back into reverse, the key finally rotated all the way back and came out. I haven't hooked up the battery yet, and tried starting it and moving the car and then shutting it down again, (mostly because the weather is terrible today and I dont have the room in my garage to move it around), but my question would be, "Do I have to unhook the cable from the lever to keep this from continuously happening? Is it of any concern if the cable is left unhooked? Or is the problem basically solved now that the lever is in the up position and should return to that position now.
Thanks for any insight,
Don
Cruising
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Jim, a quick question if you have the time.
I just encountered the same issue with my 1970 4sp Vette when I just got it out from winter storage. It didn't seem to want to fully engage into reserve at shut down time, and the key would not rotate fully back into the locking position and come out. (I have had no prior issues with this until it sat for the last 6 months). I was actually able to move the lever you spoke of without disengaging the cable, and after a couple of attempts at doing this with depressing the clutch and trying to shift back into reverse, the key finally rotated all the way back and came out. I haven't hooked up the battery yet, and tried starting it and moving the car and then shutting it down again, (mostly because the weather is terrible today and I dont have the room in my garage to move it around), but my question would be, "Do I have to unhook the cable from the lever to keep this from continuously happening? Is it of any concern if the cable is left unhooked? Or is the problem basically solved now that the lever is in the up position and should return to that position now.
Thanks for any insight,
Don
I just encountered the same issue with my 1970 4sp Vette when I just got it out from winter storage. It didn't seem to want to fully engage into reserve at shut down time, and the key would not rotate fully back into the locking position and come out. (I have had no prior issues with this until it sat for the last 6 months). I was actually able to move the lever you spoke of without disengaging the cable, and after a couple of attempts at doing this with depressing the clutch and trying to shift back into reverse, the key finally rotated all the way back and came out. I haven't hooked up the battery yet, and tried starting it and moving the car and then shutting it down again, (mostly because the weather is terrible today and I dont have the room in my garage to move it around), but my question would be, "Do I have to unhook the cable from the lever to keep this from continuously happening? Is it of any concern if the cable is left unhooked? Or is the problem basically solved now that the lever is in the up position and should return to that position now.
Thanks for any insight,
Don
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