I agree with Paul79 - oil filter has nothing to do with speed of oil pick-up at the pump. But...if it give peace of mind - do it.

 

Very well put Joe. Consumers Reports does a good job of independent testing, they've never steered me wrong yet. That said, I can't see how it would hurt anything . . . so have at it. :cheers:

 

I always fill the filter first, and my oil pressure guage only reads zero for a couple seconds.

 

Help me understand the oil flow here. I thought it went from the pickup to the pump, through the filter and then to the bearings and the upper end of the engine. If so, the pump will have to fill the filter before anything goes to the rest of the engine. But are you are saying it does not go from the pump to the filter? Then at what point does it hit the filter? Serious question, need to get the understanding of the oiling system down solid.

tom...

 

I'm with Paul and Joe on this one. There is a real sharp guy named Hib Halverson who does freelance writing for Corvette magazines, and used to post to Vettenet a while back. I think I've seen him on here as well. Anyways, he wrote up an interesting piece on oil and changes; his perspective was that due to the advancements in oil, engine design (like PCV) and production, changing the oil every 3000 and the filter every 6000 is unneccessary. The oil can apparently last much longer than that. He recommended the opposite, changing the oil every 6000 and the filter every 3000. He's a very sharp guy, well educated, and no vested interest in oil. That would be unlike pretty most 'experts'.

I have never filled a filter before putting it on. I wonder how much of a difference it makes. How about an experiment for someone. Pull a valve cover the next oil change. Don't fill the filter. Watch as someone starts the car, count the seconds between when cranking begins and when oil starts pumping out of the pushrods. Suppose it takes 5 seconds. Now do it again after filling the filter (that would probably take the same time as whenever you start the car). Say it takes 2.5 seconds. Now if that were the case, wouldn't starting the car once with an empty filter cause a similar amount of wear as starting a car twice with a full filter? I dunno, just a thought.

Rob



[Modified by robzr, 10:35 PM 5/5/2002]

 

I always fill the filter. It may only take a few seconds to fill while running, but it can't hurt. I've never heard of problems from not filling the filter. What can you do on a ZR1 where the filter is upside down or a Ford that is angled?


[Modified by 93Polo, 11:42 PM 5/5/2002]

 

I've done it both ways. I don't think it really matters. I've had vehicles with filters that were parallel to the ground and filling those would only be futile. But like nearly everyone else, if it gives you peace of mind, go for it.

 

I always do this, get the oil circulating right away. Besides, it can't hurt, only help. :cheers:

 

:yesnod: :yesnod: DITTO "Tom73" - just exactly what I was thinking as I read down the list of responses. The fact that oil is at the pickup immediately is interesting but not relevant to the issue. Before the oil can do its job inside the bearings, it has to come from the filter unless for some reason the filter's blocked and the bypass valve kicks in.

I think filling is a good idea BECAUSE: 1) It can be done easily (on our own cars), 2) can't hurt anything, and 3) it just may help a small amount. I can't disagree with the folks that say it doesn't do measurable harm but I can say that if you're doing 50 changes a day, that's less than 10 mins per car for eight hours straight - no breaks. At that pace, as a business I don't see how you can afford to wait for the filter to fill via gravity - lot faster to let the pump fill it. I'll also say that the dealers USED to say that oil only needed to be changed every 6000 miles and no one says that any more for engines like we enjoy keeping ours. :chevy :seeya

 

I always fill the filter with fresh oil to eliminate dry bearing friction, even if the filter is sideways or upside down...there's a technique that sometimes never gets a drop spilled...it's kinda like installing a new water bottle at the office. Every shop manual I have read has recommended filling the filter.

As for oil change frequency, each oil has it's own service specification, which sometimes references a standard service spec. conformity. For example Penzoil 20W50 Racing Oil is recommended for track use only, i.e. they recommend changing the oil after each run, or every other run depending on how the engine looks. I've found that just my stock L48 required changing the racing oil every 3 months from just normal every day cruising. I don't follow any schedule. I inspect my oil every month at least, sometimes more often like when I'm going on a long drive. I only change my oil if it's too dark to read the dip stick. I've discovered that regular automotive oil gets dirty and requires change every six months, so I do it when there's a change in seasons...I also do a cooling system inspection, A/C inspection, and once a year a brake inspection, though I check the fluid reservoir almost every time I check my oil.

 

This is really picky! talking about filling the filter with oil. When you change the oil the engine is still lubed up and a 5 min task of draining the oil is not enough time to let all the parts dry of oil, meanig they're still lubed. Long story short, you could crank an engine after draining the oil for a few seconds and not even hurt it! It's worst to start the engine after a long winter storage than to do this.

PS. Don't be paranoid with problems that don't exist.

Paul

 

 

for my own car i fill it.
Dealers need the buiness(engine rebuilds), so they leave it empty.

 

The Taxi cab test is a perfect example of consumers reports incomptence. Taxi's are started once a day, sometimes less. They run at low rpm and are never run to 6000rpm. Yes the drives step on it but they don't really beat on them. The Taxi's are serviced regulary and are really well taken care of.
Also the taxis put on a lot of miles in a day with very few cold starts, which is where most of your wear happens.

Consumers Reports is in the business of selling people what they want to hear. they rarely rock the boat, their best pick is always magically the best seller and they never really do decent testing.

If you want someone to tell you that Honda's are the best cars, that the Volvo is safer than your Pinto read Consumers reports.

Unfortuneately it is the only game in town so there's not much to compare it to...

Oh and back to the oil in the filter, yes it IS ****, anyone have a problem with that?

 

Let's see here.... I gotta put the filter on the engine.... I gotta put the oil in the engine, one way or another... the filter goes straight up, so there's no spillage... so, geez, where's the wasted motion here? Like the man said, why wouldn't you fill the filter first? :rolleyes:

 

I've done it both ways, and it probably doesn't matter if you just fire it, idle, then recheck. The thing to remember about bearings, and to some extent, lifters (thats the wear we're talking about here) is that they "ride" on oil when the engine is running. that's why even an engine that has bearings that are into the copper (meaning TONS of wear) will only knock for a few seconds at startup and then work fine ("fine" being relative here - you couldn't rev it or race it for long!). So, reducing wear on startup is a good thing, but I'd be surprised if you could actually hurt the engine by not filling the filter.

Hans

 

I fill it before.
Im already there, and it takes about a minute, so why not?

 

As far as miles between changes, my wife's BMW has the idiot lights that tell you when to schedule service. Her oil changes come up somewhere between 12-15,000 miles. Just something else to think about.

Russ

 

If it made a difference every engine would have a bottom up mount. I started doing oil analysis when I purchased my diesel Suburban. You mail away a sample of oil and they tell you a bunch of stuff about your engine wear and condition of oil.. Big rigs do this because of the cost of oil changes. 5,000 miles changes with my diesel and I was still good so 5,000 with the car is no big deal.. oil and filter at the same time..

I also believe that by warming up the car before oil changes your lubeing everything so 2 sec difference doesn't add up to anything.. BUT .. if it feels good to do it.. then by all means do it.. I'll spend that extra time polishing my wheels.. :cheers:

 

Keith

Gotta counter point you. I drove/managed a Limo service for 10 years and we only changed the oil in our sedans every 5000 miles. Unlike taxis we had to shut the car off to meet passengers the airport, 90% of our sedan business. We ran Lincoln Towncars and put over 200,000 on everyone of them. We stored em outside too and although i don't think we get as cold as the North Star state (ouch, guess that's Texas now ;) ) we get plenty cold in the mitten to cause cold start ups. But I change my oil every 3000 miles in my regular driver and twice a year in the vette, no speedo/odo right now. Besides. how much does an oil change cost?

To all: Put in in the filter if you want, don't if you don't. I won't think any more/less of ya either way. :)

One reason I don't put oil in my filter, besides the fact I never heard of it, is the amount of damage I would do to my brain from the anger of spilling oil all over if I accidently dropped it would far out weigh the damage to my engine if I didn't put oil in it. :jester