An oft promoted myth is that a BB vette can't be made to handle. If you offset the weight difference as mentioned above, cost is the real issue when stepping up to a big block, especially if you intend on any serious revs. That said, there may be other options, but there's no substitute for a genuine BBC.

 

I agree 400% with the resto-mod comment...

I am in the middle of my resto-mod... I kept the SB (numbers matching block) and I am going the 383 stroker route. We (engine builder/consultant and I) are going with a Scat rotating assembly, aluminum heads, custom ground cam, intake and carb to feed it... All motor, well end up with enough power and torque to light up the 345's that will be on the back... I'll give you the final numbers later but we're looking at well over 450 lbs of torque and 500+HP.... with a torque curve so flat it's scary.

For the OP.... what did it cost me?

Less than $4K including the machining of the block on the rebuild. There are more costs, obviously than that... including the trans change to an automatic with O/D and the rear end. But if you go to a BB, you are making those changes as well. In the end, I am comparing engine to engine. If I change to a serpentine system (deciding on that now) the ticket will go up a bit to about $4,900 or so. I am doing the assembly work...

On last note... if you go to a BB you will need to change the suspension as well. You will need heavier springs to make it handle. Not impossible to make it happen... but you will need to spend on suspension.

 

I understand the BB wow factor and HP potential. But, does the price go way up when you build a SB larger than a 383? I have all the SB brackets etc and I like the weight savings over the BB (both with alum heads and intake). I don't know if I would be happy with just the 383 (doesn't seem much bigger than the 350).
Thanks to all. A lot of things to consider.

 

I doubt that 90% of the members here would be able to tell the difference that the 150#'s will induce while driving the car on the street.

With a few aluminum parts the weight difference goes away.

Go with the BB you will not regret it.

Once the SB is in the car you will always wonder what it would be like with the BB

Neal

 

You can go with a 400 stroker and, no the weight will not go up. The main weight issue is the block and heads. Going to a 400 stroker will have almost the same weight as a 383 or 350. (assuming heads and intake are the same)

Now as to whether there is a difference between the 383 and the 350... of course! Especially if you compare a stock 350 to the "new" 383. Why? You are changing the rotating assembly, heads, cam, intake, carb and, most likely, the exhaust as well. The combination of the parts is the key... it's not just the change in displacement. As an example, the 350 cid in the 1977 was at about (for our purposes) 200 HP. Changin the above mentioned parts, I will end up at about 500 HP at the crank.

Could you get more power out of the 350 with new heads, cam, etc. Sure... but you will not be able to get to the numbers above because of the limitations of the pistons, crank and rods. Bottom line, there is more to a stroker than simply a larger displacement rotating assembly. There is a strength factor as well.

Could you do similar things with a big block. Needless to say. Yes. Could you get more HP and Torque... of course... but then you have to consider other factors. The main one is the added weight. A Chevy BB will weigh about 20% (about 100 to 150 lbs as mentioned) more than a 350 block. (assuming both have heads of the same matierials) And I would change the suspension because of it. That's my opinion... I am "old fashoined" in that sense... I was always taught to work from the ground up.... The weight distribution changes as does the needed spring rate to maintain the same ride height at the front. You can't just drop in a BB and expect the car to handle the same. Now add to that the plan to modify the BB as well... this a is problem. I have not even gotten to considerations of the trans, rear end and rear tires.

I am the first to say it... there is no substitute for displacement... sure a BB would be awesome... however... you have to consider everything and what you are willing to do.... or can do...

 

as i mentioned, you already have all the brackets for the sb, if you switch to a bb, the alternator and p/s brackets and pulleys will set you back at least $500-money that could be spent on building a strong sb.
also as mentioned, the extra weight of the engine can be compensated for with springs and a rear sway bar. but then the problem of snap-spins rears it's ugly head. there have been many excellent posts made by knowledgeable members on this subject of "switching ends" suddenly.
so, if your heart is set on a bb, don't look to the forum for confirmation, just do it. but on the other hand if there's any doubt about the true cost differences between a sb and a bb, be assured that they are substantial. just my personal experience from having done both.

 

You can build a 427ci small block and it will be the torque king over a 427ci big block. 4 inch stroke, of course mine cost more than Vette itself. Flame suit on and ready

 

All things being equal, a bbc head will outflow a sbc head. But things are never equal. That engine of yours will kill most bbcs.

The 540 of mine back on pg 1 was nearly $10k in just parts and machining alone with me doing all the assembly work. As the saying goes, speed costs - how fast do you want to go?

 

I wouldn't even consider a normal SBC anymore. LS motors are so much more advanced and way better heads are available. plus the 6 bolt mains. Gen 1 SBC's are going the way of the flat head ford. 10 years from now only nostalgia guys will be building them.

 

find a good low mile 6.0 or 6.2 with the rectangle port heads is even better, change out the cam and springs. put a MSD ls-2 box on it for the ignition control and put a vic jr intake on it and 850 cfm carb and boom you got a +500 hp motor for less then 3500 bucks. then get headers and motor mounts.

 

How about the installation of the LS and a 200r4?? is it a big deal?
Sure are a lot of smart people here!!

 

Oops, 4 Inch stroke. 5.7 - 6 inch rods.

The 2004R will fit. The back of the LS block has the same bolt pattern as S/BBC - its the motor mounts that have to be monkey'd with

I'm finishing up may last SBC, a Dart SHP based 427 with Brodix CNC'd heads, so not really a chevy.

From here on out its LS based w/ EFI all the way.

 

I am in the process of building a big block right now. If you want a good 600 horse BBC the parts cost will be around 10 grand. For me it is all I ever wanted and so that is why I am going that route. Additionally, there is no sound like a nice big block!

As for LS engines they are very good for making power and having good fuel mileage as well. Their parts costs are slightly less than BBC stuff. They are very easy to make killer power and retain the drive-ability. I have a 383 stroker Ls6 in my 2001 Z06 and it makes 502 rwhp and 692 rwhp on nitrous. The car was a daily driver until recently.

The standard SBC is probably the most cost effective to modify. The parts are readily available and power can be made. In comparison to the LS you will have less drive-ability with a highly modified SBC to make certain power requirements. Now to make power and keep drive-ability you will have to go to a stroker 383, 427, etc. That will cause a reduction in mileage.

That is my brief summary on everything. Hope it helps you choose, but really you have to just ask yourself what do you want and what is your goals.

 

383 probably the most affordable SB stroker.
Cost creeps up doing a 396 or larger. 400 got a little more block work to do webbing on block not quite as strong unless you go aftermarket.

Goals+usage+budget then carefully research

Finishing my last Gen1sbc almost dont want to put it in it will be another overbuilt deal that probably will eat the valvetrain prematurely.

A Carbd LSx454 is the next wet dream over here.

Cubes, tech and light packaging all in one.

 

I. Got about $7500. Invested into my shp 400 small block & still got about $1000. To go, thought about zz502 being around the same power probably but went with the small block instead so that I could reuse brackets water pump fan & shroud. I should be in the 500/500 range at the crank, which is substantially more than i got now.

 

You should rethink what you said. First I was going to go the LS route and my friend who's been building racing engines for 30 years took me over to a pile of LS blocks that had been destroyed trying to make more power, most put on S/C and they can't take the power. I have a Motown block with all five caps 4 bolt and made of billet steel and the middle three are splayed. The block has the water jackets bigger you can see the bulges next to the cylinders

Also shaft RR make the drivetrain so stable I have had to adjust the solid roller rockers in 2 years.


I have over $15,000 in parts alone, I built it in my basement and makes more power than a C6Z06 427 I here are the dyno pulls for mine and 427ci C6Z06 and the drivetrain of the C6 doesn't lose 20% like mine, it's more like 12%. That is one reason they seem to make more power. And mine wasn't tuned, one pull just to see, I had Car Chemestry baffles in the exhaust pipes and they are gone now plus I have bigger headers. I will take it to my buddies shop and have them dyno tune it, no matter what they do it will make allot more power


Way better heads, I guess you haven't seen what AFR had been putting out lately let alone the 400+cfm Little Chiefs or maybe you are not familiar with them.

I took my Vette to a shop that specializes in LS Corvettes, they have some S/C Vette putting out over 1000HP. There were a few people in the shop when I made a dyno pull and after they were asking how much nitrous I was using ( mines just got a carb ). The owner of the shop said and I quote "Looks like the Gen 1 small block is still alive and well"

 

That is impressive!! I was wanting something in the 400 - 425 HP range and maybe stay under 10K. I think the LS might take too much engineering for me to do. I can build the engine myself but fabricating brackets and pulleys and such is more than I want to do.

 

Motorhead, you keep thumping your chest how great your homebuilt 427 motor is, but your compairing it to bone stock factory small blocks? Get out of here. I can pull 100's of dyno numbers of mildly built 6.0 or 6.2 liter ls motors that would stomp your motor into the ground. Your 1/4 mile times are proof in the pudding that your motor is an under performer. you might blame traction or bad shifting, but thats e/t. the MPH in top gear should be a good indicator of your motor's real power. and its way off pace from the money you spent. Cam only ls motors routinely get into the tens, I know, I been to the drag strip more then a few times in three years and compete against LS cars in my classes. You keep thinking your 460 what ever rwhp is cool and all. have fun being in the 11's still.

Why are you showing me pictures of your little m? It is a AFTERMARKET BLOCK!!! I can just as easy show off the LSX block in my shop right now and tell you how great it is too. and cost 500 bucks less.

Little chiefs are unconventional valve angle heads that require Expensive shaft rockers and offset solid lifters. The thread here is a $$$ to HP compairison and your throwing out top notch aftermarket stuff at the guy? if thats the case a mild built 496 bbc will get you in the 9's with off the self heads low compression and a .700 lift cam, and way out flow little cheif heads.

 

In theory this is true, but in the real world chances are when you buy someone elses modified car, you are also buying their problems. Finding a good modified car is about as hard as finding a good looking 25 year old virgin. Plus, you really don't know what you have in the way of parts, like cam specs, etc, unless the car comes with receipts and is well documented. Just my .02..

 

Bone stock tuned motor from the factory. And yeah I do think it is pretty impressive to build a motor in my basement that outperforms the "LS7: The Largest, Most Powerful Small-Block Ever Built" with those high flowing 427ci GM heads, thank you !! And those big bad heads are 15 deg compared to my 23 deg heads make me want to thump my chest even more and you get all twisted when I mention Little Chiefs. Titanium connecting rods and CNC ported heads, mine aren't even ported, hold on for second I gotta go change my shirt.

You can get 1100HP out a set of Little Chief's in a sub 400ci motor, that will eat a big block 496 let alone your big block with all the power adders you need. I think maybe to make things more equal I'll slap on a set of AllPro heads to get closer to the 15deg heads the LS7 has, they should bump up the HP with 420cfm intake and 300cfm exhaust.

We will see who's thumping their chest's when you get your motor together that has to use power adders to make any good times.

And I wasn't even close to 11's it was very high 12's It might run faster with slicks but I doubt it

Mine wasn't built for racing, just putting around town, big difference between building a race engine and cruising engine, I could easily get more power out my motor but drivability would suffer and my 24mpg on the the highway wouldn't be there.