1972 454 & LT-1 performance
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Torque rules for sure in heavy street geared cars like vetts are. The 454 hydrualic cammed cars you described almost always showed up on the showroom floor hamstrung by 3.08 rear gearing. LT1 almost always showed up on the showroom floor with either 3.70 or 4.11s. You put the same rear gearing in the 454 it will totaly destroy the 350 LT1. You put in a 3.08 behind the 350 LT1 you will find out what a dog it can truely become. Do yourself a favor buy the 454.
Most old vettes with a smalblock will weigh roughly 3300 pounds or more depending on the car. The same car with all iron big block will add another 160lbs. You do the math on how much easier 104 cubic inches will easely hall the mail of the extra 160lbs with the greatest of ease.
Most old vettes with a smalblock will weigh roughly 3300 pounds or more depending on the car. The same car with all iron big block will add another 160lbs. You do the math on how much easier 104 cubic inches will easely hall the mail of the extra 160lbs with the greatest of ease.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Nov 10, 2011 at 02:22 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 6
From: www.Z16.org North/West Pennsylvania
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 39
From: Fremont CA
Your like the owner of the first Vette I ever owned. Vette was a 72 LT-1 C-60 equipped. I ran it at the drags, it went 15.28@97.5 mph. After skinning my nuckles on it for a week replacing stuff like the original plug wires, rebuilding the Holley, AND properly adjusting the vaoave lash, the Vette ran 14.08@99.6mph. The owner walked up and commented he never knew it was that fast, me (not one to mince words or make a large circle of friends) said "It wasn't, this car ran like DOG CRAP! before I spent 14 hours on straightening out the neglect that had been done to it". Show me an LT-1 with more than 6K miles between valve adjustments and I'll show you a SLOW running LT-1.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 39
From: Fremont CA
One other task I do is constantly stay on top of carb adjustments, it seems that idle speeds change quite often due to the Ethenol percentages in our fuels. Car gets very happy when I juice up the tank with race gas every so often (70 LT-1 with 10.5:1 compression and slightly bigger cam.)
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
I am confused, yesterday at around 1:40 you posted that you had decided on a 454 over a LT-1 since the LT-1 was not exciting enough.
The at around 5:00 yesterday you ask for oprnions on a 71 LT-1 you are looking at.
Am I miss reading this?
David
The at around 5:00 yesterday you ask for oprnions on a 71 LT-1 you are looking at.
Am I miss reading this?
David
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 5
From: Brown Summit North Carolina
Your like the owner of the first Vette I ever owned. Vette was a 72 LT-1 C-60 equipped. I ran it at the drags, it went 15.28@97.5 mph. After skinning my nuckles on it for a week replacing stuff like the original plug wires, rebuilding the Holley, AND properly adjusting the vaoave lash, the Vette ran 14.08@99.6mph. The owner walked up and commented he never knew it was that fast, me (not one to mince words or make a large circle of friends) said "It wasn't, this car ran like DOG CRAP! before I spent 14 hours on straightening out the neglect that had been done to it". Show me an LT-1 with more than 6K miles between valve adjustments and I'll show you a SLOW running LT-1.
It is unfortunate how some members make negative coments about another member, like above. Garage Ghost simply said he had not adjusted his vales in a long period of time, from that he is compared to the owner of another car that needed much more than a valve adjustment as if Garage Ghost completly neglects his car.
The member was trying to say that solid lifters are not the maintaince nightmare that some make them out to be. I have adjusted mine every 2 years needed or not. Takes about an hour or so. I also do not drag race, on track or off, so the extra performance is no big deal. I have a 71 LT-1, its fast , its fun , and I love driving it. If there ever comes a day where some law demands I compete on a dyno with all LT-1's left on earth and if I loose I go to shity car jail, I may then put the time into an extrem tune up. But as things stand, I am happy with it like it is, even if it may qualify as DOG CRAP in perfect car world.
The remarks about also having to adjust the carb. I suspect that a lot of 40 yoar old design carbs. may need adjusting from time to time.
Lastly, the drag times on the C60 72 LT-1 were pretty good even before the untilmate tune up for a car with a 3:36 rear gear and 1 additional belt to turn something bolted to the motor.
David
Last edited by dmayhew; Nov 29, 2011 at 08:09 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 6
From: www.Z16.org North/West Pennsylvania
It is unfortunate how some members make negative coments about another member, like above. Garage Ghost simply said he had not adjusted his vales in a long period of time, from that he is compared to the owner of another car that needed much more than a valve adjustment as if Garage Ghost completly neglects his car.
The member was trying to say that solid lifters are not the maintaince nightmare that some make them out to be. I have adjusted mine every 2 years needed or not. Takes about an hour or so. I also do not drag race, on track or off, so the extra performance is no big deal. I have a 71 LT-1, its fast , its fun , and I love driving it. If there ever comes a day where some law demands I compete on a dyno with all LT-1's left on earth and if I loose I go to shity car jail, I may then put the time into an extrem tune up. But as things stand, I happy with it like it is, even if it may qualify as DOG CRAP in perfect car world.
The remarks about also having to adjust the carb. I suspect that a lot of 40 yoar old design carbs. may need adjusting from time to time.
Lastly, the drag times on the C60 72 LT-1 were pretty good even before the untilmate tune up for a car with a 3:36 rear gear and 1 additional belt to turn something bolted to the motor.
David
The member was trying to say that solid lifters are not the maintaince nightmare that some make them out to be. I have adjusted mine every 2 years needed or not. Takes about an hour or so. I also do not drag race, on track or off, so the extra performance is no big deal. I have a 71 LT-1, its fast , its fun , and I love driving it. If there ever comes a day where some law demands I compete on a dyno with all LT-1's left on earth and if I loose I go to shity car jail, I may then put the time into an extrem tune up. But as things stand, I happy with it like it is, even if it may qualify as DOG CRAP in perfect car world.
The remarks about also having to adjust the carb. I suspect that a lot of 40 yoar old design carbs. may need adjusting from time to time.
Lastly, the drag times on the C60 72 LT-1 were pretty good even before the untilmate tune up for a car with a 3:36 rear gear and 1 additional belt to turn something bolted to the motor.
David
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 6
From: www.Z16.org North/West Pennsylvania
Your like the owner of the first Vette I ever owned. Vette was a 72 LT-1 C-60 equipped. I ran it at the drags, it went 15.28@97.5 mph. After skinning my nuckles on it for a week replacing stuff like the original plug wires, rebuilding the Holley, AND properly adjusting the vaoave lash, the Vette ran 14.08@99.6mph. The owner walked up and commented he never knew it was that fast, me (not one to mince words or make a large circle of friends) said "It wasn't, this car ran like DOG CRAP! before I spent 14 hours on straightening out the neglect that had been done to it". Show me an LT-1 with more than 6K miles between valve adjustments and I'll show you a SLOW running LT-1.
OK...Let me revise my statement. My car's valves only NEEDED adjusted once in the last 28 years because I DON'T BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF MY CARS. I never said I haven't checked them in 28 years.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 10
From: Austin TX
In my opinion, you're going about this all wrong.
When buying a 40 year old Vette, what engine it's equipped with is really quite secondary.
You need to find the nicest car within your budget. "Nice" meaning:
1) Very little-to-no rust
2) A complete car
3) Very few body cracks and/or seam problems
4) Straight frame
5) Unmolested and mostly original (if possible)
6) Original paint color (or if the paint color has changed, done correctly. Most color changes are apparent and shoddy, and devalue the car)
7) Original interior color (again, if changed, was it done correctly, without the use dye and paint everywhere)
If you find a BB or LT-1 car that meets the criteria above, that's a bonus, but you're going to pay a premium.
You're 5x better off getting the nicest Vette within your budget, and then building an engine to suit your needs. If you want to build an LT-1, fine, but you could easily build a SB with 50-75 more HP with aftermarket parts (heads and exhuast for instance).
FWIW
When buying a 40 year old Vette, what engine it's equipped with is really quite secondary.
You need to find the nicest car within your budget. "Nice" meaning:
1) Very little-to-no rust
2) A complete car
3) Very few body cracks and/or seam problems
4) Straight frame
5) Unmolested and mostly original (if possible)
6) Original paint color (or if the paint color has changed, done correctly. Most color changes are apparent and shoddy, and devalue the car)
7) Original interior color (again, if changed, was it done correctly, without the use dye and paint everywhere)
If you find a BB or LT-1 car that meets the criteria above, that's a bonus, but you're going to pay a premium.
You're 5x better off getting the nicest Vette within your budget, and then building an engine to suit your needs. If you want to build an LT-1, fine, but you could easily build a SB with 50-75 more HP with aftermarket parts (heads and exhuast for instance).
FWIW
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 492
Likes: 31
From: NJ
Don't be confused. U just read some of the threads incorrectly. I'm looking at a few different engines and years. I never said I decided on anything over another. All options still on the table!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 492
Likes: 31
From: NJ
In my opinion, you're going about this all wrong.
When buying a 40 year old Vette, what engine it's equipped with is really quite secondary.
You need to find the nicest car within your budget. "Nice" meaning:
1) Very little-to-no rust
2) A complete car
3) Very few body cracks and/or seam problems
4) Straight frame
5) Unmolested and mostly original (if possible)
6) Original paint color (or if the paint color has changed, done correctly. Most color changes are apparent and shoddy, and devalue the car)
7) Original interior color (again, if changed, was it done correctly, without the use dye and paint everywhere)
If you find a BB or LT-1 car that meets the criteria above, that's a bonus, but you're going to pay a premium.
You're 5x better off getting the nicest Vette within your budget, and then building an engine to suit your needs. If you want to build an LT-1, fine, but you could easily build a SB with 50-75 more HP with aftermarket parts (heads and exhuast for instance).
FWIW
When buying a 40 year old Vette, what engine it's equipped with is really quite secondary.
You need to find the nicest car within your budget. "Nice" meaning:
1) Very little-to-no rust
2) A complete car
3) Very few body cracks and/or seam problems
4) Straight frame
5) Unmolested and mostly original (if possible)
6) Original paint color (or if the paint color has changed, done correctly. Most color changes are apparent and shoddy, and devalue the car)
7) Original interior color (again, if changed, was it done correctly, without the use dye and paint everywhere)
If you find a BB or LT-1 car that meets the criteria above, that's a bonus, but you're going to pay a premium.
You're 5x better off getting the nicest Vette within your budget, and then building an engine to suit your needs. If you want to build an LT-1, fine, but you could easily build a SB with 50-75 more HP with aftermarket parts (heads and exhuast for instance).
FWIW
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,459
Likes: 979
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
I think that any C3 vette can be fun to drive, it just depends on what you like. I personally prefer a high revving SB with a 4 speed (3.70 gears) simply because I find them more engaging as a driver. I also prefer the better balanced chassis with the weight balance of 48% front/52% rear compared to the BB's weight distribution of 54% front/46% rear, which does not look like much of a difference but it is a BIG difference in terms of handling. The actual weight difference in absolute Lbs is not that great being about 200 lbs but that weight coupled where the engine is placed in the chassis compared to the Sb's, farther forward relative to the front axle makes the BB's VERY nose heavy-the BB's were NOT the ultimate choice for handling/racing. Keep in mind that I also have a 2010 Z06 which will crush most BB C3's in terms of outright power and torque and I still find my 78 L-82 4 speed immensely entertaining to drive!
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
73Dark has a very good point.
Worst mistake I made way back when was buying a car based on its options...and in primer.
Could have saved many10s of thousands just finding a straight sound one and adding what I wanted later. Bodywork/interior will kill you $$
Motors arent bad and are always entertaining as you can change stuff out usually without too much $ and always instant gratification.
Enjoy
Worst mistake I made way back when was buying a car based on its options...and in primer.
Could have saved many10s of thousands just finding a straight sound one and adding what I wanted later. Bodywork/interior will kill you $$
Motors arent bad and are always entertaining as you can change stuff out usually without too much $ and always instant gratification.
Enjoy
Racer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 323
Likes: 4
From: McKinney Texas
In my opinion, you're going about this all wrong.
When buying a 40 year old Vette, what engine it's equipped with is really quite secondary.
You need to find the nicest car within your budget. "Nice" meaning:
1) Very little-to-no rust
2) A complete car
3) Very few body cracks and/or seam problems
4) Straight frame
5) Unmolested and mostly original (if possible)
6) Original paint color (or if the paint color has changed, done correctly. Most color changes are apparent and shoddy, and devalue the car)
7) Original interior color (again, if changed, was it done correctly, without the use dye and paint everywhere)
If you find a BB or LT-1 car that meets the criteria above, that's a bonus, but you're going to pay a premium.
You're 5x better off getting the nicest Vette within your budget, and then building an engine to suit your needs. If you want to build an LT-1, fine, but you could easily build a SB with 50-75 more HP with aftermarket parts (heads and exhuast for instance).
FWIW
When buying a 40 year old Vette, what engine it's equipped with is really quite secondary.
You need to find the nicest car within your budget. "Nice" meaning:
1) Very little-to-no rust
2) A complete car
3) Very few body cracks and/or seam problems
4) Straight frame
5) Unmolested and mostly original (if possible)
6) Original paint color (or if the paint color has changed, done correctly. Most color changes are apparent and shoddy, and devalue the car)
7) Original interior color (again, if changed, was it done correctly, without the use dye and paint everywhere)
If you find a BB or LT-1 car that meets the criteria above, that's a bonus, but you're going to pay a premium.
You're 5x better off getting the nicest Vette within your budget, and then building an engine to suit your needs. If you want to build an LT-1, fine, but you could easily build a SB with 50-75 more HP with aftermarket parts (heads and exhuast for instance).
FWIW
After number 4 above, it is just a question of what your budget allows (imo). Get one without an engine for cheap and build what you want, buy a NCRS collector car or anything in between.
Though I own both, I prefer the BB because I like the torque when accelerating, which I do much more often than racing through the curves. I do not notice that much of a handling difference between my C3s (other than it is a lot easier to kick the tail out in the BB). Similar to jb78L-82 point on current gen cars being quicker, neither of my SB or BB C3s could keep up with my '96 LT4 in the curves regardless.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
I have a 70 LS5 454 and equipped with a 4sp and 3.08 rear gears.
I idles perfect, and power is super smooth.. and has a turbine Jet sound to it. HA! Maybe that's why they call them TurboJet! LOL
I don't know how a 71 or later BB feels but it has to be close to the same sensation.
I got to add.. I really like the LT1 for what it is. It's a High winding screamer. Better for a road coarse... I like Street Brawling stigma with Big Block Brawn..LOL
Power and Torque is plenty. You do not need to shift down and drop a gear inorder for it to fly. Actually Top Speed potential is scary on the thing. In third for example I can hit 110MPH and I had to slow down.
Big Blocks have Never Ending B@LLS!!!!
I idles perfect, and power is super smooth.. and has a turbine Jet sound to it. HA! Maybe that's why they call them TurboJet! LOL
I don't know how a 71 or later BB feels but it has to be close to the same sensation.
I got to add.. I really like the LT1 for what it is. It's a High winding screamer. Better for a road coarse... I like Street Brawling stigma with Big Block Brawn..LOL
Power and Torque is plenty. You do not need to shift down and drop a gear inorder for it to fly. Actually Top Speed potential is scary on the thing. In third for example I can hit 110MPH and I had to slow down.
Big Blocks have Never Ending B@LLS!!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,091
Likes: 40
After number 4 above, it is just a question of what your budget allows (imo). Get one without an engine for cheap and build what you want, buy a NCRS collector car or anything in between.
Though I own both, I prefer the BB because I like the torque when accelerating, which I do much more often than racing through the curves. I do not notice that much of a handling difference between my C3s (other than it is a lot easier to kick the tail out in the BB). Similar to jb78L-82 point on current gen cars being quicker, neither of my SB or BB C3s could keep up with my '96 LT4 in the curves regardless.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Murrells Inlet SC
Prior to my current LS5 with hydraulic lifters I had two Corvettes with mechanical lifters. I had to adjust the mechanical lifters in the other Corvettes every 3,000 miles without fail. Even though I usually made my own adjustments, I much prefer the hydraulic lifters in a street driven car.
Drifting
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 5
From: Roseville CA
I've got a 71 LS5 with a mild cam, headers, mild porting, and a performer manifold. It's an AC car with 3.08s. The torque is amazing. It's like driving a big diesel. Lot's of fun. Not to say it's better than a high winding SB. Just a different category of fun.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 264
Likes: 1
From: west central INDIANA
I had a 72 LS5 454 SS Chevelle, 4 speed, and 3.31 gear all stock. From what I can remember, if a 70 vette, or a 70 camaro with the LT1 motor wanted to try me out. He better have it running at its best,and have 4.11 gear, or I would eat his lunch. If the LT1 wasn`t ahead by 70 mph the Big Block would blow him away. The 71 and 72 LS5 motors were the same. 71 had 365 HP gross, 72s had 270 HP net. Both had an endless supply of Torque.
You don`t have to dump the clutch in a 454 to light the tires, ya just nail it.
You don`t have to dump the clutch in a 454 to light the tires, ya just nail it.