'73 L48 engine upgrade advice
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Both setups would require different pushrods so no sense talking about them. Summit cam lifters $99.95. comps brand of steel 1.6 roller tip $1.09.00 = less then $210.00. Lunati roller $600.00 if you want rockers another $109.00 most people at this point want roller rockers thats $210 on up. Anyway thats probably $850.00 no pushrods.
$1400.00 heads at least $900.00 for cam parts $100 to $150.00 gaskets may as well figure $2500.00 in parts.
$1400.00 heads at least $900.00 for cam parts $100 to $150.00 gaskets may as well figure $2500.00 in parts.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield Virginia
So you're telling me I shouldn't have bought an Edelbrock 2102 cam...
Like I said, this was my first engine build and I chose to go "paint-by-numbers" Edelbrock power package.
My first question, can the cam be replaced without pulling the engine out of the car? Remove the radiator? If it can't, I'm not going to go through the hassle of pulling it out of the car at this point.
Scott, to answer your question, 63mako hit it on the head; I have "a TH400 with a stock convertor and 3.08 gears the corvettes with the 400 have a 2000RPM convertor stock" I'm going to plead the 5th on whether or not I painted my original heads aluminum
Yes, that is the my engine in the pic.
Little Mouse, I already have the urge for a 383, but it's not in the budget right now. So, what I want is a set of heads that will work with my setup, producing ~350hp & ~400ft/lbs, that I can later use in a 383 build. Like you said, investment for the future.
My budget is $1500 for everything, so if you were me, what would you buy? Brodix or Dart heads mentioned, cam, and 1.6 rockers? Or, AFR 180 heads and stick with my cam? Do you guys have a set of 1.6 rockers you would recommend over others?
Thanks again
Like I said, this was my first engine build and I chose to go "paint-by-numbers" Edelbrock power package.
My first question, can the cam be replaced without pulling the engine out of the car? Remove the radiator? If it can't, I'm not going to go through the hassle of pulling it out of the car at this point.
Scott, to answer your question, 63mako hit it on the head; I have "a TH400 with a stock convertor and 3.08 gears the corvettes with the 400 have a 2000RPM convertor stock" I'm going to plead the 5th on whether or not I painted my original heads aluminum
Yes, that is the my engine in the pic.Little Mouse, I already have the urge for a 383, but it's not in the budget right now. So, what I want is a set of heads that will work with my setup, producing ~350hp & ~400ft/lbs, that I can later use in a 383 build. Like you said, investment for the future.
My budget is $1500 for everything, so if you were me, what would you buy? Brodix or Dart heads mentioned, cam, and 1.6 rockers? Or, AFR 180 heads and stick with my cam? Do you guys have a set of 1.6 rockers you would recommend over others?
Thanks again
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
So you're telling me I shouldn't have bought an Edelbrock 2102 cam...
Like I said, this was my first engine build and I chose to go "paint-by-numbers" Edelbrock power package.
My first question, can the cam be replaced without pulling the engine out of the car? Remove the radiator? If it can't, I'm not going to go through the hassle of pulling it out of the car at this point.
Scott, to answer your question, 63mako hit it on the head; I have "a TH400 with a stock convertor and 3.08 gears the corvettes with the 400 have a 2000RPM convertor stock" I'm going to plead the 5th on whether or not I painted my original heads aluminum Yes, that is the my engine in the pic.
Little Mouse, I already have the urge for a 383, but it's not in the budget right now. So, what I want is a set of heads that will work with my setup, producing ~350hp & ~400ft/lbs, that I can later use in a 383 build. Like you said, investment for the future.
My budget is $1500 for everything, so if you were me, what would you buy? Brodix or Dart heads mentioned, cam, and 1.6 rockers? Or, AFR 180 heads and stick with my cam? Do you guys have a set of 1.6 rockers you would recommend over others?
Thanks again
Like I said, this was my first engine build and I chose to go "paint-by-numbers" Edelbrock power package.
My first question, can the cam be replaced without pulling the engine out of the car? Remove the radiator? If it can't, I'm not going to go through the hassle of pulling it out of the car at this point.
Scott, to answer your question, 63mako hit it on the head; I have "a TH400 with a stock convertor and 3.08 gears the corvettes with the 400 have a 2000RPM convertor stock" I'm going to plead the 5th on whether or not I painted my original heads aluminum
Yes, that is the my engine in the pic.Little Mouse, I already have the urge for a 383, but it's not in the budget right now. So, what I want is a set of heads that will work with my setup, producing ~350hp & ~400ft/lbs, that I can later use in a 383 build. Like you said, investment for the future.
My budget is $1500 for everything, so if you were me, what would you buy? Brodix or Dart heads mentioned, cam, and 1.6 rockers? Or, AFR 180 heads and stick with my cam? Do you guys have a set of 1.6 rockers you would recommend over others?
Thanks again
Last edited by 63mako; Jan 25, 2012 at 07:49 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
The cam is a bit on the mild side. Assuming the car is running good now, I'd try to push the budget for a slightly more aggressive cam. (or wait a couple months and save up a few more pennies for the cam?)
However, you ARE planning on a 383, so I'd go with AFR180s (or better yet, 195s).
The 195s will work pretty well with your 383...
However, you ARE planning on a 383, so I'd go with AFR180s (or better yet, 195s).
The 195s will work pretty well with your 383...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
So you're telling me I shouldn't have bought an Edelbrock 2102 cam...
Like I said, this was my first engine build and I chose to go "paint-by-numbers" Edelbrock power package.
My first question, can the cam be replaced without pulling the engine out of the car? Remove the radiator? If it can't, I'm not going to go through the hassle of pulling it out of the car at this point.
Scott, to answer your question, 63mako hit it on the head; I have "a TH400 with a stock convertor and 3.08 gears the corvettes with the 400 have a 2000RPM convertor stock" I'm going to plead the 5th on whether or not I painted my original heads aluminum Yes, that is the my engine in the pic.
Little Mouse, I already have the urge for a 383, but it's not in the budget right now. So, what I want is a set of heads that will work with my setup, producing ~350hp & ~400ft/lbs, that I can later use in a 383 build. Like you said, investment for the future.
My budget is $1500 for everything, so if you were me, what would you buy? Brodix or Dart heads mentioned, cam, and 1.6 rockers? Or, AFR 180 heads and stick with my cam? Do you guys have a set of 1.6 rockers you would recommend over others?
Thanks again
Like I said, this was my first engine build and I chose to go "paint-by-numbers" Edelbrock power package.
My first question, can the cam be replaced without pulling the engine out of the car? Remove the radiator? If it can't, I'm not going to go through the hassle of pulling it out of the car at this point.
Scott, to answer your question, 63mako hit it on the head; I have "a TH400 with a stock convertor and 3.08 gears the corvettes with the 400 have a 2000RPM convertor stock" I'm going to plead the 5th on whether or not I painted my original heads aluminum
Yes, that is the my engine in the pic.Little Mouse, I already have the urge for a 383, but it's not in the budget right now. So, what I want is a set of heads that will work with my setup, producing ~350hp & ~400ft/lbs, that I can later use in a 383 build. Like you said, investment for the future.
My budget is $1500 for everything, so if you were me, what would you buy? Brodix or Dart heads mentioned, cam, and 1.6 rockers? Or, AFR 180 heads and stick with my cam? Do you guys have a set of 1.6 rockers you would recommend over others?
Thanks again
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jan 25, 2012 at 09:00 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield Virginia
Ok, got it, I'm buying AFR 195, part number 1040 or 1034?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Y...afr+195cc+head
Little mouse, you've talked me into changing out the cam.
I just didn't want to take the engine out, I'll take the radiator out no problem.
Will the summit cam you recommended still work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-K1103/
Can I use stock rockers and pushrods?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Y...afr+195cc+head
Little mouse, you've talked me into changing out the cam.
I just didn't want to take the engine out, I'll take the radiator out no problem. Will the summit cam you recommended still work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-K1103/
Can I use stock rockers and pushrods?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Ok, got it, I'm buying AFR 195, part number 1040 or 1034?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Y...afr+195cc+head
Little mouse, you've talked me into changing out the cam. I just didn't want to take the engine out, I'll take the radiator out no problem.
Will the summit cam you recommended still work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-K1103/
Can I use stock rockers and pushrods?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Y...afr+195cc+head
Little mouse, you've talked me into changing out the cam.
I just didn't want to take the engine out, I'll take the radiator out no problem. Will the summit cam you recommended still work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-K1103/
Can I use stock rockers and pushrods?
Don't get over excited start buying parts. Start thinking about where your going with say a rotating kit from some one like flatlander for your 383. What are your options going to be on pistons ?
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jan 25, 2012 at 10:52 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
the 383 longer stroke creates more compression your either going to have to get by with a bigger chamber on the 350 then it needs or come up with a dish piston building the stroker. Sure do wish you would have installed a flat top piston in your current 350. putting the bigger chamber head on just puts you back to original pitifull compression numbers.
Don't get over excited start buying parts. Start thinking about where your going with say a rotating kit from some one like flatlander for your 383. What are your options going to be on pistons ?
Don't get over excited start buying parts. Start thinking about where your going with say a rotating kit from some one like flatlander for your 383. What are your options going to be on pistons ?
It would be nice if you had flat tops but you don't. I would go with the AFR 195 65cc chamber straight plug head. The summit cam will work fine with them. The comp magnum 1.6 to 1 roller tip rockers are reasonably priced and easily added later, after cam break in. Check with Tony Mamo @ AFR (forum name)for spring recomendation for the cam and head purchase. He is a supporting vendor here. You will have to change them if you build the 383 because you definetely want a roller in it.
Last edited by 63mako; Jan 26, 2012 at 12:47 AM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
If you don't know much about what goes into a 383 build, here is a link to a great article by Car Craft on the 383:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...y/viewall.html
Scott
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...y/viewall.html
Scott
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield Virginia
Little Mouse, "Don't get over excited start buying parts." Understood, I need to do some more research before I buy anything, and gain a better understanding what parts fit best together.
What I wanted was a baseline recommendation as to what parts worked best together based on experience, hard to get that from reading books. The 383 build is 10 years down the road, but it would be nice not to have to buy heads again.
63mako, I'll PM Tony Mamo on the spring recommendation, thanks. I don't mind spending $100 on a cam for the the 350, and then buying a roller later, just don't want to spend $1000+ on heads and have to re-buy them.
Scott, I'll take a look at that article this weekend, I'm also reading "How to build Max-performance Chevy small-blocks" by David Vizard.
How much power output should I expect from my setup with the Summit cam and AFR 195 65cc?
What I wanted was a baseline recommendation as to what parts worked best together based on experience, hard to get that from reading books. The 383 build is 10 years down the road, but it would be nice not to have to buy heads again.
63mako, I'll PM Tony Mamo on the spring recommendation, thanks. I don't mind spending $100 on a cam for the the 350, and then buying a roller later, just don't want to spend $1000+ on heads and have to re-buy them.
Scott, I'll take a look at that article this weekend, I'm also reading "How to build Max-performance Chevy small-blocks" by David Vizard.
How much power output should I expect from my setup with the Summit cam and AFR 195 65cc?
Last edited by Steve's '73; Jan 27, 2012 at 11:17 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Tony momo happened to put up a post today on speed talk talking to someone about a SBC pump gas 550hp. Here is only part of what he said.
" It can certainly be done with proper selection of components. But IMO it would be a better performing package in a larger cube engine. Honestly, our 195 street heads out of the box would get the job done. They flow 280cfm or better from .500 to .550 were they PEAK and have exellent low and mid lift numbers as well. The airflow is there to support 550 hp ".
He goes on to say a local shop doing machine work for him uses the 195 on both 350 and 383 builds.
If you look at AFR site the 180 street head flows 260 cfm but goes flat at .500 .
So it looks like someone staying with lower lift numbers of a flat tappit cam 180 runner works. But what about that .550/.560 lift hydraulic roller everyone wants.
" It can certainly be done with proper selection of components. But IMO it would be a better performing package in a larger cube engine. Honestly, our 195 street heads out of the box would get the job done. They flow 280cfm or better from .500 to .550 were they PEAK and have exellent low and mid lift numbers as well. The airflow is there to support 550 hp ".
He goes on to say a local shop doing machine work for him uses the 195 on both 350 and 383 builds.
If you look at AFR site the 180 street head flows 260 cfm but goes flat at .500 .
So it looks like someone staying with lower lift numbers of a flat tappit cam 180 runner works. But what about that .550/.560 lift hydraulic roller everyone wants.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jan 26, 2012 at 04:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield Virginia
How much power I'm after will depend upon my budget at the time, I haven't done enough research on 383s to give you an informed answer; as much hp/torque as I can afford would be the simple answer.
Last edited by Steve's '73; Jan 26, 2012 at 03:57 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Not really. e-mail tony momo at www.airflowresearch.com or call him. explain your not wanting to buy twice on heads. While your at it tell him your going to be no more then .470s ( 1.6 ) lift hydraulic flat cam until you can do better in the future.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jan 26, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield Virginia
Not really. e-mail tony momo at www.airflowresearch.com or call him. explain your not wanting to buy twice on heads. While your at it tell him your going to be no more then .470s ( 1.6 ) lift hydraulic flat cam until you can do better in the future.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
What if he says the 180 head would support 450 hp regardless whatever size engine you want ? For more power the 195 would be where you want to go for sure. Just looking at there web site looks like the 180 head is going flat peaks at .500 lift in comparison to the larger runner head..500 lift reminds me of old tech flat tappit cams.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Chesterfield Virginia
Got a response back, from AFR tech Jerami Patrick.
Part of what he said:
"I would recommend a set of our 195cc Eliminators. Your specific combination would be able to harness the power potential of these heads. They flow remarkably well while retaining a relatively small intake runner volume. This increases the velocity of the intake charge resulting in not only a peak horsepower gain but also an increase in bottom end power."
"You’ll need a spring exchange if you’re going to run a flat tappet cam, have the heads ordered with an 8064 spring exchange or consider upgrading to a roller cam which the head is already setup for."
For the 383, KB 718 forged flat-top pistons, Scat 6'' 7/16 strocker rods, Scat 2.75 9000 series steel strocker crank...540hp 500ft/lbs...
Part of what he said:
"I would recommend a set of our 195cc Eliminators. Your specific combination would be able to harness the power potential of these heads. They flow remarkably well while retaining a relatively small intake runner volume. This increases the velocity of the intake charge resulting in not only a peak horsepower gain but also an increase in bottom end power."
"You’ll need a spring exchange if you’re going to run a flat tappet cam, have the heads ordered with an 8064 spring exchange or consider upgrading to a roller cam which the head is already setup for."
For the 383, KB 718 forged flat-top pistons, Scat 6'' 7/16 strocker rods, Scat 2.75 9000 series steel strocker crank...540hp 500ft/lbs...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Got a response back, from AFR tech Jerami Patrick.
Part of what he said:
"I would recommend a set of our 195cc Eliminators. Your specific combination would be able to harness the power potential of these heads. They flow remarkably well while retaining a relatively small intake runner volume. This increases the velocity of the intake charge resulting in not only a peak horsepower gain but also an increase in bottom end power."
"You’ll need a spring exchange if you’re going to run a flat tappet cam, have the heads ordered with an 8064 spring exchange or consider upgrading to a roller cam which the head is already setup for."
For the 383, KB 718 forged flat-top pistons, Scat 6'' 7/16 strocker rods, Scat 2.75 9000 series steel strocker crank...540hp 500ft/lbs...
Part of what he said:
"I would recommend a set of our 195cc Eliminators. Your specific combination would be able to harness the power potential of these heads. They flow remarkably well while retaining a relatively small intake runner volume. This increases the velocity of the intake charge resulting in not only a peak horsepower gain but also an increase in bottom end power."
"You’ll need a spring exchange if you’re going to run a flat tappet cam, have the heads ordered with an 8064 spring exchange or consider upgrading to a roller cam which the head is already setup for."
For the 383, KB 718 forged flat-top pistons, Scat 6'' 7/16 strocker rods, Scat 2.75 9000 series steel strocker crank...540hp 500ft/lbs...
yep even one of the 180 head shows a 1.290 dual spring 135 seat .600 lift obviously a spring ment for a hydrauilc roller.
Last edited by Little Mouse; Jan 27, 2012 at 02:24 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Remember you are hurting on compression with your dished piston already. If you have not ever cut the deck on the block you don't want the standard .041 gasket they have a volume of about 9.1cc the gasket you need .015 thick has a volume of around 3.2cc.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 65
From: Seattle WA
St. Jude Donor '14
The AFR 195 is the "utility infielder" of heads - pretty much good at everything.
The question on runner size is always is the owner prepared to cam/intake/carb up to a level that fully utilizes the heads. There's nothing worse than big runners/mild cam...or buying heads for the "next" build...
The question on runner size is always is the owner prepared to cam/intake/carb up to a level that fully utilizes the heads. There's nothing worse than big runners/mild cam...or buying heads for the "next" build...
Last edited by billla; Jan 27, 2012 at 06:09 PM.