sjmcdowell

OK time for some basic training. I have the TA completely apart. New bushings installed.
I bought an alignment/bearing run-out tool to get the shims correct.
Actually a 1' x 4' bolt & nut works pretty dare good as an alignment tool.
Now how do I put the bearings & outer seal in place?
Do I put the bearing & outer seal in place then fit the spindle in, put on the spacer & shim; then press the whole stack (including the inner bearing), then torque on the spindle flange?
OR will the the flange nut be strong enough to pull it all together?
If I put the outer seal on the spindle then press on the outer bearing, how does the seal get into place?
God forbid I have to pull it apart if the run-out is not correct.

63split63

At the risk of starting an argument here, I had my spindles taken down a bit so the bearings would be a firm slip fit. It sure makes the job of servicing the rear bearings simple .
Any machinist with a lathe can spin them up and take a few thou off with some emery paper in a minute .

Bill

sjmcdowell

I have a lathe, albeit a wood lathe. I think I can get it centered.
What grit emery paper should I use?

gcusmano74

Typically, when a shaft transmits torque, the engineers install a press fit bearing assembly to control it. Chevrolet did that on the rear wheels.
I'm assuming that people smarter than me, with engineering degrees, know more than me. As much as it would make reinstallation easier, I wouldn't change the press fit of the bearing.

Mike Ward

GM made a fundamental engineering error on the '63 Corvettes by releasing the design with insufficient press fit on the inner bearings. Following a string of failures in the field, including sheared shafts and 'runaway' wheels, on June 10th 1963 they revised the design extensively and issued TSB DR #599 which introduces the tight fit which remained the standard until the end of C3 production in 1982.

Undoing this feature to marginally simplify a maintenance task that's required only once every 40K miles makes no sense.

AJM- if your set up tool can accurately mount the bearings and shims to properly measure end play (not runout), then assembly onto the spindles will only be required once.

63split63

I chose to make my spindle bearings a slip fit so I could easily service the rear bearings annually or when I do any brake service. Just as the front bearings are easily serviced , they get serviced . I have no intention of putting 40,000 miles on my rear bearings before service .
We don't see a lot of front wheel bearing problems because they get the attention that they need .
Bill

Mike Ward

Bill-

It is a fundamental error to compare the front wheel bearing design and maintenance requirements to the C2/C3 rears- that's the mistake GM made on the original '63 config.

The key difference is that front spindle shaft is stationary with the wheel assembly rotating around it while the rear is a rotating spindle attached to and rotating in concert with the wheel assembly. On the former, any radial clearance between the inner race and spindle is pretty much irrelevant whereas on the rears, the same clearance will cause movement between the two and possible failure due fretting, wear and rotation of the inner race.

The 40,000 mile interval was introduced late in the C3 program as opposed to the original 'sealed for life' concept. Many C2/C3 have double, triple or many more times that mileage on the original untouched bearings. Failure of bearings at less than the 40K interval is unheard of.

63split63

It is a fundamental error to compare the front wheel bearing design and maintenance requirements to the C2/C3 rears- that's the mistake GM made on the original '63 config.

The key difference is that front spindle shaft is stationary with the wheel assembly rotating around it while the rear is a rotating spindle attached to and rotating in concert with the wheel assembly. On the former, any radial clearance between the inner race and spindle is pretty much irrelevant whereas on the rears, the same clearance will cause movement between the two and possible failure due fretting, wear and rotation of the inner race.

The 40,000 mile interval was introduced late in the C3 program as opposed to the original 'sealed for life' concept. Many C2/C3 have double, triple or many more times that mileage on the original untouched bearings. Failure of bearings at less than the 40K interval is unheard of.[/QUOTE]



My opinion is based on 35 yrs of professionally working on Corvetts and about just about any other north american vehicle . I have never seen a rear bearing failure from the slip fit procedure . Most that I have seen are from a lack of service ( lubricant drying out ) or from improper installation .
Most of these cars today would need 20 yrs to accumulate 40,000 mi and that would be too long of a service interval in my opinion.
The main reason that GM changed to a press fit had nothing to do with all that mumbo jumbo above and much to do with keeping the wheel on the car in the event of a spindle end failure . This is not the same problem with a disc brake set up.
I should have said before that I would not recomend slip fitting the early drum brake set up .
Bill

Mike Ward

But how would the rear wheel leave the car unless the spindle sheared? Root cause?


Yes, technical discussion on a subject can be scary mumbo jumbo sometimes. I guess ignorance is bliss as they say.

63split63

A real smart fellow once told me that it is impossible to win an argument with a fool .

Bill

Mike Ward

That was kind of cruel for that fellow to call you such a name but possibly he had good reason. In any case for those that are not afraid of mumbo-jumbo, here's the TSB introducing the tight fit

Please read the summary carefully.

sjmcdowell

OK guys, let's get back to the original question.
Assume I get the alignment tool & find a good shim combination for the correct end play. Now do I:
put the outer bearing in place
then the outer seal,
insert spindle,
slide on spacer & shim,
put the inner bearing in place,
put on the spindle flange;
then press the whole stack at once?
OR????
I see the last tech response came in while I was writing this. Thanx
So the outer seal will be pushed into place by the spindle?
Sam

63split63

The easiest thing to do on a forum like this is to read what the "book" says to do and then follow the instructions to the letter . If you quote "the book" it can make you an instant expert like your pretending to be .

Sound familiar Mike . Your post on Feb 6, 2012 @ 05:34 pm

This was when you were advising to not replace a rocker stud that was badly cut .

I couldn't resist !

Bill

Mike Ward

Sorry- you'll have to give me a better clue. I don't recall any posts this year on that subject, nor understand the relevance to the present subject.

If you want to disregard GM documentation and procedures on your own cars, be my guest. The OP deserves to hear both sides of a discussion- without name calling.

63split63

C1 C2 Forum O2/06/2012

Thread
Got towed home the other day, Any motor doctors out there ?

FYI, The name calling started with someone posting "ignorant"
Post # 9 above

Bill

Mike Ward

Bill-

You seem to be a very angry and confused individual. The post you've been quoting must be this one:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1579940140-post22.html

written by MikeM, not me.

I happen to know MikeM, and he can run circles around 99.9% of the people here and on the C2 side from both the theoretical and practical point of view, if you get my hint.

Back to the OP's question about the outer seal. I don't believe the spindle alone will properly push the seal into position. As I recall when doing my own bearings in 1996ish, we assembled the outer seal, outer bearing and shims onto the spindle and pressed them into place prior to loading the spindle into the outer housing. The seal was then wiggled into place with fingers and careful pushing with screwdrivers. We pressed the inner bearing into place added the flange and torqued the nut. Sorry if that's too vague- it's been 16 years.

Rally68

The seal will not be pushed into place by the spindle. Seat the seal first and then--not including the spindle flange--you do the whole stack at once. The press tool is just a galvanized pipe nipple & cap--IIRC I ground the threaded end down some because the thread tapers and I was worried about pressing with the thinner wall thickness. Had to relieve the ID just a hair too. Works slick, I stole the idea from GTR1999.

Steve439

Van Steel described how they assemble in this thread.
It's the way I prefer too.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...questions.html

sjmcdowell

BINGO !!! THAT is what I wanted to know in post one.
I bought the setup tool that I will probably use once in my life and Wilcox sells a tool to go onto the spindle threads to use a impact driver to squeeze it all together.
All of these tools will be for sale when I am done.
Thanx for all the info.
Sam