Changed the oil...solid roller failure :(
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 1
From: Orange Ca
Changed the oil...solid roller failure :(
Changed the oil in the car I bought from a forum member nearly two years ago. Only put 500 miles on the car and decided to change the oil prior to a road trip to San Diego about 90 miles each way. I put Mobil 1 5W-30W oil in along with a NAPA Gold Filter. Car ran great all the way there and back until I was about 10 miles from home. Started hearing a clacking sound so I pulled over quickly and the car was idling very rough. Shut it down and called AAA. Took the valve covers off and found the exhaust rocker arm on cylinder #3 lose and the pushrod sitting lower than the rest (no pics yet). So my question is, should I pull the motor and rebuild it, buy a new GM assembled motor, or can I replace the cam, rollers etc...drain the oil and run it? Am thinking I should go with hydraulic roller lifters this time around...any thoughts would be appreciated...thanks.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine Coast Qld
IMO...solid rollers are for the drag strip, not 180 mile road trips. As for rebuilding the engine...I'd probably at least stip and clean everything, the tiny metal particle from the cam lobe will be everywhere.
Definitely go hydraulic roller.
Definitely go hydraulic roller.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 15
From: Oxford Ohio
I'd survey the damage first. If you have ground up parts and therefore ( like was said) you'll need to clean the engine well. You may get by without a complete rebuild with regard to parts, just replace the broken parts and reassemble.
There are plenty solid lifter engines running out there. They do require adjusting now and then, and require more attention than a hydraulic lifter would.
I'd be interested in knowing what broke. If the lifter broke there is a chance you didn't send a bunch of metal through the engine. You can drop the pan and see what's in it, and pull off a main and rod cap and see what may have gotten into the bearings.
There are plenty solid lifter engines running out there. They do require adjusting now and then, and require more attention than a hydraulic lifter would.
I'd be interested in knowing what broke. If the lifter broke there is a chance you didn't send a bunch of metal through the engine. You can drop the pan and see what's in it, and pull off a main and rod cap and see what may have gotten into the bearings.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
No reason to switch unless you absolutely want to. This is 2013, not 1990. We know a lot more about running 'em on the street now than we used to.
Plenty of solid rollers on the street, just gotta follow a few rules and plan on a little more maintenance. Had you cracked the valve covers and checked lash lately? That's how most find problems before they cause major troubles.
Check your oil filter and the cam - if it's a lifter failure, you'll need to account for every one of the tiny rollers. If it's a cam, I'd probably tear it down for a good cleaning, those tiny particles can hide in the oil galley and will go right through the filter bypass when the oil is cold and thick at startup.
Plenty of solid rollers on the street, just gotta follow a few rules and plan on a little more maintenance. Had you cracked the valve covers and checked lash lately? That's how most find problems before they cause major troubles.
Check your oil filter and the cam - if it's a lifter failure, you'll need to account for every one of the tiny rollers. If it's a cam, I'd probably tear it down for a good cleaning, those tiny particles can hide in the oil galley and will go right through the filter bypass when the oil is cold and thick at startup.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
The answer to your question is "it depends"
if it's the roller that lost its needle bearings, used car dealers would simply change the oil and the lifter and be done with it.... I think that path is fraught with risk, but a used car dealer wouldn't care because they won't see the car when it goes boom.
if it's a broken push rod (which is pretty common), just change the push rod. Again, many people wouldn't even pull the intake to get the other pieces of the rod out because it cant' get out of the valley. Personally, I'd pull the intake and get the pieces out (if it's a push rod).
I'd certainly pull the motor and clean out the insides with a re-ring rebuild if you ate a roller lifter. When a lifter goes, it generally scores the cam - but there's no way of telling if you don't pull the cam. Also, when a lifter goes, you get tons of metal shards thrown throughout the motor.
my guess - you broke a push rod - when you said you had only changed the oil, you implied that you hadn't adjusted the valves, most solid roller motors have huge spring pressures because they have a large by huge cam... too much play in the valve train breaks push rods (don't ask me how I know this).
if it's the roller that lost its needle bearings, used car dealers would simply change the oil and the lifter and be done with it.... I think that path is fraught with risk, but a used car dealer wouldn't care because they won't see the car when it goes boom.
if it's a broken push rod (which is pretty common), just change the push rod. Again, many people wouldn't even pull the intake to get the other pieces of the rod out because it cant' get out of the valley. Personally, I'd pull the intake and get the pieces out (if it's a push rod).
I'd certainly pull the motor and clean out the insides with a re-ring rebuild if you ate a roller lifter. When a lifter goes, it generally scores the cam - but there's no way of telling if you don't pull the cam. Also, when a lifter goes, you get tons of metal shards thrown throughout the motor.
my guess - you broke a push rod - when you said you had only changed the oil, you implied that you hadn't adjusted the valves, most solid roller motors have huge spring pressures because they have a large by huge cam... too much play in the valve train breaks push rods (don't ask me how I know this).
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,062
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Some good suggestions
Until you pull the lifter out you wont know really. Unless the cam/lifter bore was banged up Id replace the lifter and be on your way. I broke a couple pushrods did the same thing *rough idling*. Coulda replaced them and driven it instead got all panicky and rebuilt a new motor again. lol Everythign inside was perfect.
If you do replace morel Isky Crower (not sure about crane)all make bushed (no needle bearings) lifters.
Seen solids go many thousands of miles without a hitch. Ill always have a solid roller lifes too short to have a girly cam.
Until you pull the lifter out you wont know really. Unless the cam/lifter bore was banged up Id replace the lifter and be on your way. I broke a couple pushrods did the same thing *rough idling*. Coulda replaced them and driven it instead got all panicky and rebuilt a new motor again. lol Everythign inside was perfect.
If you do replace morel Isky Crower (not sure about crane)all make bushed (no needle bearings) lifters.
Seen solids go many thousands of miles without a hitch. Ill always have a solid roller lifes too short to have a girly cam.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
This is EXACTLY what happened to me on .....I think... my 3rd build.... had a brand new RPM flat tappet cam... ran the 500 mile brake in... ran like a top....
changed the oil to Mobile 10w-30.... and in about 200 miles i absolutely had a FLAT flat tappet cam...
your question about a full rebuild??? YES
from the mettle of your now really flat flat tappet cam has gone all over your engine, and no... your oil filter did not get it all.... your piston sleeves are shot, your bearings are shot... yea, its over.... IF, your cam lobe is wiped.
as far as mobile 1 goes, the only one you can run in a flat tappet cam is 15w-50... thats it
after tearing my engine apart after that... I can tell you its over if you wiped a lobe. period.
spend the extra cash and go roller... all these problems fad away... and radei-a....
changed the oil to Mobile 10w-30.... and in about 200 miles i absolutely had a FLAT flat tappet cam...
your question about a full rebuild??? YES
from the mettle of your now really flat flat tappet cam has gone all over your engine, and no... your oil filter did not get it all.... your piston sleeves are shot, your bearings are shot... yea, its over.... IF, your cam lobe is wiped.
as far as mobile 1 goes, the only one you can run in a flat tappet cam is 15w-50... thats it
after tearing my engine apart after that... I can tell you its over if you wiped a lobe. period.
spend the extra cash and go roller... all these problems fad away... and radei-a....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,557
Likes: 9
From: Oquirrh Mountains
St. Jude Donor '09
If you're going to run a solid roller cam on the street, plan on adding periodic lifter replacement to your maintenance schedule. Schedule it right along with your tire rotation. The needle bearing rollers, combined with high spring pressures, were never intended for continuous street use and will fail. That or install the newer bushing style solids.
I know solid rollers make killer power on the dyno b/c they enable the engine to rev to the stratosphere, but unless you are in a street/strip machine (a real one that actually sees the strip) and are willing to commit to the extra maintenance demands; skip the solid rollers completely and install a good hydraulic roller cam with morel lifters. The high end morels will hit 7k+ nowdays anyway if they are set up properly.
Engine teardown? I would pull the intake and look at your lifters. If the needle bearings and wheels are all still intact, you may be ok.
I know solid rollers make killer power on the dyno b/c they enable the engine to rev to the stratosphere, but unless you are in a street/strip machine (a real one that actually sees the strip) and are willing to commit to the extra maintenance demands; skip the solid rollers completely and install a good hydraulic roller cam with morel lifters. The high end morels will hit 7k+ nowdays anyway if they are set up properly.
Engine teardown? I would pull the intake and look at your lifters. If the needle bearings and wheels are all still intact, you may be ok.
Last edited by Ben Lurkin; Apr 23, 2013 at 11:05 AM.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 1
From: Orange Ca
This is EXACTLY what happened to me on .....I think... my 3rd build.... had a brand new RPM flat tappet cam... ran the 500 mile brake in... ran like a top....
changed the oil to Mobile 10w-30.... and in about 200 miles i absolutely had a FLAT flat tappet cam...
your question about a full rebuild??? YES
from the mettle of your now really flat flat tappet cam has gone all over your engine, and no... your oil filter did not get it all.... your piston sleeves are shot, your bearings are shot... yea, its over.... IF, your cam lobe is wiped.
as far as mobile 1 goes, the only one you can run in a flat tappet cam is 15w-50... thats it
after tearing my engine apart after that... I can tell you its over if you wiped a lobe. period.
spend the extra cash and go roller... all these problems fad away... and radei-a....
changed the oil to Mobile 10w-30.... and in about 200 miles i absolutely had a FLAT flat tappet cam...
your question about a full rebuild??? YES
from the mettle of your now really flat flat tappet cam has gone all over your engine, and no... your oil filter did not get it all.... your piston sleeves are shot, your bearings are shot... yea, its over.... IF, your cam lobe is wiped.
as far as mobile 1 goes, the only one you can run in a flat tappet cam is 15w-50... thats it
after tearing my engine apart after that... I can tell you its over if you wiped a lobe. period.
spend the extra cash and go roller... all these problems fad away... and radei-a....
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 1
From: Orange Ca
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
aaaahhh... sorry... thought they were flat tappet for some reason....
if the cam did not shave flat, your good to go.... just clean it up and make sure you have all the parts out.... but if for some reason that cam went flat, its over.
if the cam did not shave flat, your good to go.... just clean it up and make sure you have all the parts out.... but if for some reason that cam went flat, its over.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 1
From: Orange Ca
I removed the rocker and the pushrod is fine. I am pretty sure the cam is shot because when I started it (5 seconds) with the valve covers off I could see light smoke similar to when you drill in metal with oil. I assume the lifter is galling up on the cam.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Sorry to hear about the failure. We are plagued with a couple of problems. Crappy metal cams from Comp Cams and motor oils designed for modern cars.
IMO – you killed your cam with 5W – 30 oil. That is for modern H-roller motors. Solid rollers need higher pressure systems with thicker oils with zinc……………
I have two solid rollers with Crane Pro lifters and I drive over a 1000 miles in a weekend.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 191
Likes: 1
From: Orange Ca
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 379
From: Woodinville WA
... and yes, I know there are guys out there who only adjust their flat-tappet, solid lifter motors once every 10,000 miles..... there's also people who win the mega lottery - though, IMO, the ones who win the big bucks are less lucky than the guys who run 10k miles without adjusting a solid lifter.
