Timing question..Won't start and backfires.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
Likes: 1
From: New Bern NC
Timing question..Won't start and backfires.
I put the intake and the new carb back on. I marked how the distributor came out but it didn't seem to want to go back in the right way. There are only two ways for it to seat, right??
Right now, it turns over a few times than BLAM!!! A big backfire and it stops.
I did that twice but now I have to stop before I hurt something. I read the initial startup procedures that were written (by Lars, I think) and think I have to step through that. I either put the dist in 180 out or put the plug wires on wrong or the new carb is messed up.
Any inputs? I also broke the throttle cable and need one of those. The projects never end............ :confused: :cry
Right now, it turns over a few times than BLAM!!! A big backfire and it stops.
I did that twice but now I have to stop before I hurt something. I read the initial startup procedures that were written (by Lars, I think) and think I have to step through that. I either put the dist in 180 out or put the plug wires on wrong or the new carb is messed up.
Any inputs? I also broke the throttle cable and need one of those. The projects never end............ :confused: :cry
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From: Dove Mountain Arizona
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
You got the dist off a tooth or three. Easy to fix. First, take out the #1 spark plug. Turn the engine by hand or have someone 'bump' the starter (coil wire out) until you feel big compression on your finger. Bring the timing mark on the balancer up to zero or 'T' on the balancer. This is TDC on #1. Follow #1 plug wire to the dist cap and then put a mark on the dist body just below the cap. Remove the cap and see where the rotor is pointing. If it's off just pull the dist up an inch or so and rotate it so it will be right on the mark. This will leave the engine in a retarded mode and it probably will not idle without throttle help. You will have to turn the dist for correct timing (8-12 deg), but it will get you going. Note; if the dist does not drop completely into the intake manifold do not worry, just continue turning the engine a little and the blade on the dist WILL fall into place in the oil pump shaft. It's slotted so it will go within one revolution. Let us know how it goes.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
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From: New Bern NC
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (MasterDave)
Did that and now I am confused. Mine has an HEI but was a points car. I thought that I put the new plug wires on correctly but that depends on which picture I look at in the haynes manual.
I bumped it till I had compression on #1, turned the crank till I was at o degrees and pulled the cap. The rotor is pointing to just after #8. Did I put the wires on wrong or the distributor in wrong? I did the wires one at a time so I thought that I couldn't screw it up but I have screwed up easier projects before. It seems easier to just move all the plug wires one spot to the left. Is that OK??
I bumped it till I had compression on #1, turned the crank till I was at o degrees and pulled the cap. The rotor is pointing to just after #8. Did I put the wires on wrong or the distributor in wrong? I did the wires one at a time so I thought that I couldn't screw it up but I have screwed up easier projects before. It seems easier to just move all the plug wires one spot to the left. Is that OK??
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
Likes: 1
From: New Bern NC
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
Update #1: I had #4 and #8 backwards. Now the battery is dead but no "BIG BOOM" during the last attempt. Once it's charged, I'll try again....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
Mike, do I ever feel your pain (see my recent threads where I whine continually about my problems!)
Other folks here know a lot more about this than I do, but just a couple notes: the firing order is the same for the BB as the SB, but the position of the #1 tower on the cap is different. On the 427 (and on the 454, I believe), #1 is the front tower on the passenger side, while it's the front tower on the driver's side on a small block. Also, I had a hell of time getting my distributor back in last week. Did everything you did, marking the position, getting it to TDC, etc, still didn't want to go in--I got a big-azz screwdriver and turned the oil pump slot with it and then the distributor went in fine.
Hope you get it figured out.
JB
Other folks here know a lot more about this than I do, but just a couple notes: the firing order is the same for the BB as the SB, but the position of the #1 tower on the cap is different. On the 427 (and on the 454, I believe), #1 is the front tower on the passenger side, while it's the front tower on the driver's side on a small block. Also, I had a hell of time getting my distributor back in last week. Did everything you did, marking the position, getting it to TDC, etc, still didn't want to go in--I got a big-azz screwdriver and turned the oil pump slot with it and then the distributor went in fine.
Hope you get it figured out.
JB
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
Likes: 1
From: New Bern NC
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (JB)
Thanks, my number one is presently on the drivers side front tower but like I stated, the rotor was pointing to #8 while at TDC. The haynes manual has it that way for HEI but how the heck does the car know what type of distributor it has. When the piston is at TDC it is there irregardless of what type of distributor there is.
Still confused but am getting closer, I think. <Br>
[Modified by tworottiedogs, 4:14 PM 6/23/2002]
Still confused but am getting closer, I think. <Br>
[Modified by tworottiedogs, 4:14 PM 6/23/2002]
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From: Dove Mountain Arizona
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
You're right about the dist, the engine doesn't care what kind it has, it's mainly so's the darn thing will fit in there with the vac advance pot in the proper location. Make sure your #1 cyl is on the COMPRESSION stroke first. If it's not, your rotor will point opposite #1. Just rotate it 180 and it'll work. :cheers: Hey, you need to shorten your fuel lines a bit bro....... :eek:
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
Likes: 1
From: New Bern NC
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (MasterDave)
Yes, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention the fuel lines. I ordered the wrong fittings and am too impatient to wait for the correct ones. I ordered the 90 degree elbows which ended up pointing directly up and would work pointing that way. I promise to fix that stuff and am going to replace the hose with the snazzy stuff too.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
Likes: 1
From: New Bern NC
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (MasterDave)
Ok, it worked. I think I have to do the trick with moving the oil pump back a little. I managed to set the timeing to 10BTC but that has the vacuum canister against the firewall. When I hooked up the vacuum advance, things went a little nuts and it maxed out the timing at idle. I might just run without the vacuum advance hooked up.
It only helps at cruise speeds, right?? I don't have a cruise speed with the 4.11 gears. Everything is high RPMs. Doesn't it make sense not to use vacuum advance since the only time it would work is in the driveway?
Once I got the timing set, it idled great all the way down to 500 rpms. I set it at 700 for now and need to work on the mixture. It is VERY rich right now.
It only helps at cruise speeds, right?? I don't have a cruise speed with the 4.11 gears. Everything is high RPMs. Doesn't it make sense not to use vacuum advance since the only time it would work is in the driveway?
Once I got the timing set, it idled great all the way down to 500 rpms. I set it at 700 for now and need to work on the mixture. It is VERY rich right now.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
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From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
tworot, think of the discissions having to do the same with a reverse rotation maring engine caused.....should'a been there.....;-)))
BTW, if you have headers or pick the right truck, buy a set of wires, or better yet make your own to go over top of the engine, and avoid a lot of stock corvette headaches with dist wiring....
I usually orient the 'nose' of the HEI units like a TPI unit would have it....straight toward driver's fender, then the #1 plug is the terminal in front of the nose....this makes the wring easier, I think....
I by long versions of allready made up sets, and take them apart to trim the wire length, and take the time to rework the clips properly with aid of some silicone gel on reassembly... much cheaper than custom wiring....can't figger why, just is....
GENE
BTW, if you have headers or pick the right truck, buy a set of wires, or better yet make your own to go over top of the engine, and avoid a lot of stock corvette headaches with dist wiring....
I usually orient the 'nose' of the HEI units like a TPI unit would have it....straight toward driver's fender, then the #1 plug is the terminal in front of the nose....this makes the wring easier, I think....
I by long versions of allready made up sets, and take them apart to trim the wire length, and take the time to rework the clips properly with aid of some silicone gel on reassembly... much cheaper than custom wiring....can't figger why, just is....
GENE
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Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 7,117
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From: Dove Mountain Arizona
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
Glad it worked for ya. You need to set your idle timing with the vac line disconnected. There are two schools of thought on where to hook the line though. One is for full vac and the other ported vac. Lotsa arguments on this one but for a better street engine go with ported. Also if your vac cannister is up against the firewall you may be one hole off on your dist cap with your plug wires. You can change them, then your dist can be repositioned properly. Again, glad your up and running....... :cool:
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,651
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From: Holly MI
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (tworottiedogs)
tworottiedogs,
I'm just wondering if you went with the cable drive HEI or swapped the tach. I swapped the tach, and have not been able to make it work. Honestly though, I haven't worked on that problem for a while now. Just wondering about your install.
Thanks.
I'm just wondering if you went with the cable drive HEI or swapped the tach. I swapped the tach, and have not been able to make it work. Honestly though, I haven't worked on that problem for a while now. Just wondering about your install.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 905
Likes: 1
From: New Bern NC
Re: Timing question..Won't start and backfires. (bb69)
Hi,
Mine is the non-cable drive HEI. I wish I had the money for the cable drive. I haven't swapped the tach either. I presently have a 3 inch tach mounted on the steering column but want to swap the tach like you did.
sorry I can't help you but I do plan on doing the swap so you can count on me to ask the same questions soon.
Mine is the non-cable drive HEI. I wish I had the money for the cable drive. I haven't swapped the tach either. I presently have a 3 inch tach mounted on the steering column but want to swap the tach like you did.
sorry I can't help you but I do plan on doing the swap so you can count on me to ask the same questions soon.
