Are these heads slavagable?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Escondido CA
H-O-L-Y $-H=I-T. 800 bucks for a CAM?????? For a CAM? I hope that that includes everything except my time and blood! Does it come with the rollers and everything I need for the conversion to a roller?
Im ASSUMING Ive got 292 heads ( I havnt pulled a valve cover yet but thats stock for a 71 ) and I didnt find any listings for a 292 head. Will that cam work? Before I go investing 800 bucks in a cam Ive got to know for sure that this thing will make me say "holy SHI T thats a big change....Im interested, but I need more convincing.
Hey Super6, Im sending you a PM. Check yo box.
Im ASSUMING Ive got 292 heads ( I havnt pulled a valve cover yet but thats stock for a 71 ) and I didnt find any listings for a 292 head. Will that cam work? Before I go investing 800 bucks in a cam Ive got to know for sure that this thing will make me say "holy SHI T thats a big change....Im interested, but I need more convincing.
Hey Super6, Im sending you a PM. Check yo box.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
Mako, I keep trying to send you a PM but it wont go thru...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
Alright, so the BIG question to all of you who have so generously posted so far: Will a cam alone (on top of my current mods) give me a serious increase in felt power?
Case in point- I had a camaro with a 305. I added headers. Meh...
Then I upgraded to a 350...Mehhhh, OK, a little better....Then I swapped from 2.77's to 3.73's in the rear...HOLY FUZZIN SHEET. THATS the kind of upgrade I want to feel.
(PS- Im already running 3.55's and dont want to play with gears yet, as the next big jump is to 4.11's and with a 4 speed Ill have NO highway ability)
Case in point- I had a camaro with a 305. I added headers. Meh...
Then I upgraded to a 350...Mehhhh, OK, a little better....Then I swapped from 2.77's to 3.73's in the rear...HOLY FUZZIN SHEET. THATS the kind of upgrade I want to feel.
(PS- Im already running 3.55's and dont want to play with gears yet, as the next big jump is to 4.11's and with a 4 speed Ill have NO highway ability)
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Escondido CA
While you don't need a roller (it makes it easier) your cam isn't helping you at all. There's a Chevelle with a 454 built like yours with the Summit 238/248 cam and 3.08 rear end, it ran 12's with that configuration.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
Here is a flat tappet cam that has specs very similar to yours, just as a comparison:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
As you can see, it's advertised power range is 1600-5600 rpm...not bad. If your cam is very similar, I think it might work well with these heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet
1800 bucks, and your done. And you'll be taking a very sizable chunk of weight off the nose of your car, to boot. Those big block heads weigh a ton!
If your distributor still has the stock ignition curve, and you are running the ignition timing at stock specs, you are leaving a lot of power and throttle response on the table. Fuel mileage, too. Recurving the distributor on my '80 is the best thing I ever did to it. Best 20 bucks I ever spent.
One last thing to think about: All the cool kids have aluminum heads. It's a fact. Don't kid yourself, man, if you wanna be cool, you gotta run aluminum heads, that's all there is to it.
Scott
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
As you can see, it's advertised power range is 1600-5600 rpm...not bad. If your cam is very similar, I think it might work well with these heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet
1800 bucks, and your done. And you'll be taking a very sizable chunk of weight off the nose of your car, to boot. Those big block heads weigh a ton!
If your distributor still has the stock ignition curve, and you are running the ignition timing at stock specs, you are leaving a lot of power and throttle response on the table. Fuel mileage, too. Recurving the distributor on my '80 is the best thing I ever did to it. Best 20 bucks I ever spent.
One last thing to think about: All the cool kids have aluminum heads. It's a fact. Don't kid yourself, man, if you wanna be cool, you gotta run aluminum heads, that's all there is to it.
Scott
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 7
ScottyP,
If the OP were to buy new Edelbrocks, the ones he should be looking at are the 100cc combustion chamber versions to get his compression up. They have the same 290cc oval ports and other features as the 110cc chamber versions.
The photo below started as the 100cc versions, but were massaged a little and are actually 102cc, but the small chamber is evident and is good against detonation.
If the OP were to buy new Edelbrocks, the ones he should be looking at are the 100cc combustion chamber versions to get his compression up. They have the same 290cc oval ports and other features as the 110cc chamber versions.
The photo below started as the 100cc versions, but were massaged a little and are actually 102cc, but the small chamber is evident and is good against detonation.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
For the same money to buy these heads and bring them back to life you can buy new aluminum heads!
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,948
Likes: 72
From: Oxford MA-----You just lost the game!!!!
ScottyP,
If the OP were to buy new Edelbrocks, the ones he should be looking at are the 100cc combustion chamber versions to get his compression up. They have the same 290cc oval ports and other features as the 110cc chamber versions.
The photo below started as the 100cc versions, but were massaged a little and are actually 102cc, but the small chamber is evident and is good against detonation.
If the OP were to buy new Edelbrocks, the ones he should be looking at are the 100cc combustion chamber versions to get his compression up. They have the same 290cc oval ports and other features as the 110cc chamber versions.
The photo below started as the 100cc versions, but were massaged a little and are actually 102cc, but the small chamber is evident and is good against detonation.
Scott
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
Here is a flat tappet cam that has specs very similar to yours, just as a comparison:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
As you can see, it's advertised power range is 1600-5600 rpm...not bad. If your cam is very similar, I think it might work well with these heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet
1800 bucks, and your done. And you'll be taking a very sizable chunk of weight off the nose of your car, to boot. Those big block heads weigh a ton!
If your distributor still has the stock ignition curve, and you are running the ignition timing at stock specs, you are leaving a lot of power and throttle response on the table. Fuel mileage, too. Recurving the distributor on my '80 is the best thing I ever did to it. Best 20 bucks I ever spent.
One last thing to think about: All the cool kids have aluminum heads. It's a fact. Don't kid yourself, man, if you wanna be cool, you gotta run aluminum heads, that's all there is to it.
Scott
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
As you can see, it's advertised power range is 1600-5600 rpm...not bad. If your cam is very similar, I think it might work well with these heads:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet
1800 bucks, and your done. And you'll be taking a very sizable chunk of weight off the nose of your car, to boot. Those big block heads weigh a ton!
If your distributor still has the stock ignition curve, and you are running the ignition timing at stock specs, you are leaving a lot of power and throttle response on the table. Fuel mileage, too. Recurving the distributor on my '80 is the best thing I ever did to it. Best 20 bucks I ever spent.
One last thing to think about: All the cool kids have aluminum heads. It's a fact. Don't kid yourself, man, if you wanna be cool, you gotta run aluminum heads, that's all there is to it.
Scott
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
I gave Chris an email and a real quick summary of what Im running. He said that he could get me another 75-100 HP with a cam. Holy $hit, thats a LARGE improvement. Its going to be expensive (just over a grand) but its a job Im capable of and makes the best use of my fresh bottom end. This is going to be fun.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Escondido CA
I gave Chris an email and a real quick summary of what Im running. He said that he could get me another 75-100 HP with a cam. Holy $hit, thats a LARGE improvement. Its going to be expensive (just over a grand) but its a job Im capable of and makes the best use of my fresh bottom end. This is going to be fun.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
75-100 HP? 'Murica! *** Yeah!
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Escondido CA
Right now my biggest problem is going to be the teardown. Ill be leaving the engine in the bay so I know the radiator will need to come out. Dog knows what kind of problems Im going to run into there. (I know my support has some perforation rust) Im really excited about this project. Its going to cost me about 1100 bucks but Id rather do this than heads. A few quick questions about the roller conversion. 1) Will I have to set valve lash now that it will be hydraulic, or is it just cranking the arms down? How will the pushrod guideplates attach? Im pretty sure my studs are pressed in. What holds the cam button in? Will I have to drill and tap for a cam retainer? (please say no....)
75-100 HP? 'Murica! *** Yeah!
75-100 HP? 'Murica! *** Yeah!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
BB timing covers bolt into the pan, kind of a b%^&h to get them off without pulling the engine. The valves will be set with preload like FT hydraulic lifters. All BB guide plates are bolted to the heads with the rocker arm studs. The cam button will ride against the timing chain cover and needs to be set with a set clearance, I want to say .005-.007 " off the top of my head. Most blocks are already drilled and tapped for the Gen VI style retainer plate, much easier to deal with. But you'll need the Gen VI style timing chain, they're about the same price as the MK IV style.
As far as actually pulling the engine to get to the timing cover...I have a 1.5 car garage with limited space, no room for a cherry picker. Can a cam swap be pheasibly performed with the engine still in the car? I really dont have the means to pull the engine out.
Guide Plates are bolted to the heads with the studs? Maybe this is a 'gotta see it' kind of thing, but where do they bolt too?
You say 'most' are already drilled? My block is a 72. Will I need the retainer plate? Whats the chances its not drilled? (If its not drilled, this will open a whole can of worms for me in that I will surely need to pull the engine to drill and tap)
Hope Im not getting in over my head here. TIA for taking the time to answer.
Last edited by Scottd; Oct 10, 2013 at 11:09 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,938
Likes: 848
From: melbourne florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
you can definitely change the cam with the engine in the car. just be methodical and take your time , it won't be bad. if you hit a snag , ask for guidance .
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 167
Likes: 1
From: Escondido CA
The timing cover can be pulled while the engine is still in the car, it's a PITA though. The rocker studs screw into the heads with the guide plate underneath them, kinda like a washer would be normally. The drilled and tapped bolt thing is hit and miss, I would plan on running a button. That way there are no surprises and you'll have the parts needed.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
It's a lot of work but the best advice I can give you is pull the radiator and shroud first! This way you can stand in the front of the engine compartment. It will save your back.
Second, loosen almost all the oil pan bolts and remove at least 4 on each side before dropping it down to pull the timing cover. On re install, you can cut the front seal corners for the pan gasket. It allows the timing cover to slip back in easier.
Third, if this engine has a lot of miles on it, I would advise pulling it! I did it in a 1 car garage
you have a 70/30% of the oil pan leaking doing it in the car and wrestling heads onto the block while its in the car can lead to damaged head gaskets! Your back will thank you also 
You can do it if you take your time and do your homework! That includes asking many questions.... Good Luck
Second, loosen almost all the oil pan bolts and remove at least 4 on each side before dropping it down to pull the timing cover. On re install, you can cut the front seal corners for the pan gasket. It allows the timing cover to slip back in easier.
Third, if this engine has a lot of miles on it, I would advise pulling it! I did it in a 1 car garage
you have a 70/30% of the oil pan leaking doing it in the car and wrestling heads onto the block while its in the car can lead to damaged head gaskets! Your back will thank you also You can do it if you take your time and do your homework! That includes asking many questions.... Good Luck
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
Likes: 139
From: Syracuse NY
The timing cover can be pulled while the engine is still in the car, it's a PITA though. The rocker studs screw into the heads with the guide plate underneath them, kinda like a washer would be normally. The drilled and tapped bolt thing is hit and miss, I would plan on running a button. That way there are no surprises and you'll have the parts needed.
The more I talk to Chris about this cam, the more excited Im getting. Ill definitely be taking off the hood and pulling out the radiator. Will the timing cover go back on easily? I had fits with my 350 and had to drop the entire oil pan. Thats not going to be an option for me as the engine will stay in the bay.