Real quick question. The camshaft on my GM crate 290 is already broken in. The General says (along with others) not to use Synthetic oil during the first 1000 miles on the engine (despite Mobil 1 being factory fill on Gen 1 smallblocks since 1990 IIRC ). I have a 12 quart box of Brad Penn 10w-40 that I bought a while ago, planning to use it. It is however a semi-synthetic oil. I just did the cam break in and was going to change the oil for the first time and do the street break in tomorrow. Is the Brad Penn ok to use or should I go buy some full dino oil?

Will

 

Yours is a flat tappet no?

The late model motors you speak of had roller cams

Id stick with what the mfr recommends to keep your warranty intact

 

Yeah its a flat tappet. I realize they had roller cams, I thought the issue was with rings seating.

Good point with warranty though. Maybe I'll just go buy some more oil tomorrow. Plus I don't want to "waste" the Brad Penn, because the oil has to be changed at 500 miles, then 1000 followed by normal change intervals. 1000 miles is also when the General says it's ok to use synthetic.

 

Good chance GM will tell you to use 10w-30. That's what they said to use in my ZZ4. I like to add Red Line EOS to the Pennzoil (Dino) 10w-30 that I'm currently using. After maybe 5K miles, I'll switch to syn but continue to add the RL at each oil change even though I have roller rockers/cam.

 

Brad Pen has oil specifically designed for breakin. Their normal semi synthetic oil great after break in. The oil chang inervals are the same as I use. I have been using it on my last two high hp engines.

 

I used Lucas oil break in oil for the cam break in. I went out and got Rotella T1 30wt and a bottle of EOS. I think that'll do for the break in. I know its not 10w30 (they didnt have it) but some people use ridiculously heavy weights like 20w50 so I think it'll be fine. The bottle of EOS I'm going to split between oil changes. Brad Penn after the 1000 Mile break in period.

Will

 

Here's one Racer's experience using Brad Penn oil with his flat tappet race motor. As you will see, there are many other oils that will provide better wear protection. Read on:

An oval track dirt racer (his class is extremely competitive, so he asked that his name be left out) on the SpeedTalk Forum runs a 7200 rpm, solid flat tappet, 358ci Small Block Chevy motor, with valve spring pressures of about 160 on the seat and 400 open, that are shimmed to .060” from coil bind. The rules and the combination of parts, were causing him to experience repeated cam failures while using high zinc, semi-synthetic 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 motor oil. Lab Report Data from testing performed by Professional Lab, “ALS Tribology” in Sparks, Nevada, showed that this oil contains 1557 ppm zinc, 1651 ppm phosphorus, and 3 ppm moly.

In spite of this being a high zinc oil, that most folks would assume provides sufficient wear protection, he experienced wiped lobe cam failure about every 22 to 25 races. A race consists of one 8 lap (a lap is typically 3/8 mile) heat race and one 20 lap feature race, plus any caution laps. If you add it all up, 25 races only total about 281 miles at the point of cam failure. And my test data on this 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 motor oil, shows that it produces a wear protection capability of only 71,206 psi, which puts it in the MODEST wear protection category, and it ranks a very disappointing 92nd out of 124 oils tested so far. That means of course that there are 91 different oils I’ve tested that provide better wear protection. SO, MY TEST DATA ACCURATELY PREDICTED EXACTLY WHAT HE EXPERIENCED DURING RACING. And that is, that this oil does not provide high enough wear protection capability to provide a sufficient margin of safety for this engine’s operating conditions. Looking at my “Wear Protection Ranking List” and choosing a much higher ranked oil, would have prevented all those cam failures. Repeatedly suffering cam failures in motors with so little time on them, may have been considered by some folks to be a normal consumption of parts back in the ‘60’s or ‘70’s. But, in the 21st Century that we live in now, by any measure, that is for sure premature failure. We no longer have to accept that as the cost of doing business, because we can do far better now.

So, he switched to the super micro polished billet lifters from PPPC and the cam life went up to 40 races, which was an improvement since he could now go 450 miles between failures. But, that was still clearly unacceptable. Then 2 years ago he started using “Oil Extreme Concentrate” as an additive to the 10W30 Brad Penn, and he’s never lost a lobe on a cam since. The “Oil Extreme Concentrate” is calcium petroleum sulfontate EP (Extreme Pressure) technology based, and NOT high zinc based. Adding the “Oil Extreme Concentrate” completely eliminated his premature wiped lobe cam failures. Now the motor has now gone 70+ Races without issue, and is still doing fine. This “Oil Extreme Concentrate” is one additive that actually works as advertised, and makes low ranked oils far better than they were to begin with. AND THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT MY MOTOR OIL TEST DATA PREDICTED AS WELL.

Here’s how. I also added “Oil Extreme Concentrate” to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic, as part of my motor oil “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load” research. And with 2.0 OZ of “Oil Extreme Concentrate” added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability shot up by a BREATH TAKING 56%, to an amazing 111,061psi, which puts it in the INCREDIBLE wear protection category, and now ranks it a jaw dropping 3rd out of 124 oils tested so far. So, it moved up a whopping 89 ranking positions, just by adding the “Oil Extreme Concentrate”. This totally accounts for the reason all his cam lobe failures were eliminated.

In addition to this, a NASCAR team sent me three Mobil 1 Racing Oils, for testing because they were having wear problems when using those oils. The results of my testing, showed that these oils provided poor wear protection capability, and were not a good choice for their racing application, which confirmed why they had wear problems. This example clearly showed once again that my test data EXACTLY MATCHED what this race team had experienced on the track.

So, these examples PROVE once and for all, that my test data EXACTLY MATCHES REAL WORLD RACE TRACK EXPERIENCE, and that my test data is the spot on REAL DEAL, just as I’ve said all along. This completely confirms that my test results WILL ACCURATELY PREDICT what we can expect from motor oils in running engines on the track or on the street, EVEN if those oils are high zinc oils. So, that should be more than enough proof to satisfy anyone who was skeptical of how well my test data compares to the real world.

To see my entire 100+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, along with additional motor oil tech FACTS (with over 8,000 “views” worldwide), here’s a link:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

540 RAT
U.S. Patent Holder
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

 

Brad Penn no longer calls it's oil "Racing oil" it is meant for the street.And I wouldn't be concerned about a few 1/4 passes

 

Odd, I've never seen any data which correlates a film strength test to the likelyhood of a flat tappet cam failure.

Since you're such an expert, what film strength is required to prevent a flat tappet cam failure? Oh wait, you can't answer that.

I'm also getting sick of reading these postings hawking this "Oil Extreme Concentrate" without being a vendor here...

If the story is true, then it's just saying that Brad Penn oil doesn't protect a flat tappet cam as well as they claim it does. However, I find it hard to believe this racer would go through multiple cam failures without trying a different oil. Very, very hard to believe.

 

No you didn't miss anything, assumptions based on improper testing protocol using a 30 second test with new oil that ends @ 115,000 psi when a slow ramp, low lift, factory flat tappet cam with stock #80 springs loads the lobe/lifter interface @ over 200,000 psi.
Additive clash over time is unaccounted for, thickening of the oil from sheered friction modifiers is not addressed, viscosity breakdown after adding additives is untested and unverified. no long term testing done, Extreme pressure additives that protect surfaces after film strength sheers is not addressed since the test ends then. Same unanswered questions and incorrect extrapolated results from a test that does not address extreme pressure additive effectiveness in any way in a different post.

 

As for these posts hawking this Oil Extreme Concentrate, use the little triangle on the left and report it as a commercial sales post without being a vendor. Might as well call those posts what they are.

 

I think that 540 Rat provides us with some valuable information. I guess that if you feel he is trying to sell something, you likely feel he is also selling oil. I find his test results to be without prejudice. This forum is better off and more informed because of his input. I am thankful that he shares his knowledge with us.

 

I've been using Brad Penn in my lo-po (270 HP) 350 for 10,000 mi now with no problems that I can tell.

 

Lately, every rather wordy post by 540Rat has been heavily pushing how good this oil additive is, going on and on about how much better it has improved every oil he tests it with or the above big story how it has stopped failures of an unnamed racer. I'm just calling it like I see it.

I think Will's'74VetteL-82 will do well using the oils as he has posted and doesn't really need more help with that.