Bad Valve Seat??
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 421
Likes: 6
From: Chicago IL
Bad Valve Seat??
Hey guys, I just picked up some aluminum heads and noticed that one of the heads was not only in poor shape (pits in the mating surfaces all over the place), but one of the exhaust valves shows a lot of light through it. Is this normal? Should I send it back?
Last edited by Jartanyon; Feb 8, 2014 at 06:12 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
Even my Dart SHP heads were not perfect out of the box, but a leaky exhaust valve is not good. Hard to say what else may be of low quality that you can't see.
Maybe a reassessment of the brand of head you are choosing is in order. It will cost a whole lot to replace heads (and anything else they took with them) after they have failed in use.
Trust and go with your gut feeling on these, your first instinct is usually the right one.
Maybe a reassessment of the brand of head you are choosing is in order. It will cost a whole lot to replace heads (and anything else they took with them) after they have failed in use.
Trust and go with your gut feeling on these, your first instinct is usually the right one.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 15
From: Oxford Ohio
Seems you will always read about great results from ANY head or aftermarket engine part that is in question. A rule of thumb is, you don't get quality cheap, or cheap in comparison to the more expensive performance parts. It's a risk with discount or lower end parts. To often in the long run the attempt to save money ends up costing more. Plus the added aggrivation and wrench time.
Usually the complete engine builds that get posted will bring questions with regard to the manufacturer of the parts. Usually they end up a list of discount parts. Some of the issues they have aren't as easily seen as your's are. Someone posted on here awhile back the results of a machine shop inspection of NEW import discount engine parts, I think the block also. The list of poor machining was an extensive list.
The unfortunate issue is that using all premium parts gets expensive to the point of being out of budget.
The valve in your case must have been the install of the guide. Therefore you can count on the valves have not been lapped into the holes. So where else has there been short cuts or no inspection at all.
Usually the complete engine builds that get posted will bring questions with regard to the manufacturer of the parts. Usually they end up a list of discount parts. Some of the issues they have aren't as easily seen as your's are. Someone posted on here awhile back the results of a machine shop inspection of NEW import discount engine parts, I think the block also. The list of poor machining was an extensive list.
The unfortunate issue is that using all premium parts gets expensive to the point of being out of budget.
The valve in your case must have been the install of the guide. Therefore you can count on the valves have not been lapped into the holes. So where else has there been short cuts or no inspection at all.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
I'm not one that believes things go 100% all the time. With humans envolved mistakes will happen.
I sold these heads to OP. He contacted me and we sent him a UPS return label to put on the box. The heads arrived about an hour ago. I wanted to see them myself. Sure enough we had some light. Pulled it apart, lapped the valve, still we had daylight. Put the Sunnen gauge in the guide and found the seat and guide are not concentric. Problem can be fixed it will take R&R the seat.
The porosity of the castings. I see what the OP has referred to but I don't see anything that would cause any issues. These are cope and drag castings using sand. I have seen USA made heads with the same amount porosity that cost more money.
I contacted the OP my email and asked him to call. We went over this stuff and gave him the option of 100% refund or a replacement set of heads. He opted for a new set of replacement heads.
Issue are going to arise, it is how the issues are handled I feel that seperates companies.
I sold these heads to OP. He contacted me and we sent him a UPS return label to put on the box. The heads arrived about an hour ago. I wanted to see them myself. Sure enough we had some light. Pulled it apart, lapped the valve, still we had daylight. Put the Sunnen gauge in the guide and found the seat and guide are not concentric. Problem can be fixed it will take R&R the seat.
The porosity of the castings. I see what the OP has referred to but I don't see anything that would cause any issues. These are cope and drag castings using sand. I have seen USA made heads with the same amount porosity that cost more money.
I contacted the OP my email and asked him to call. We went over this stuff and gave him the option of 100% refund or a replacement set of heads. He opted for a new set of replacement heads.
Issue are going to arise, it is how the issues are handled I feel that seperates companies.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 421
Likes: 6
From: Chicago IL
Wow, Chris - I am pretty impressed that you would write this. Most companies would run the other way at a thread like this - especially since I did not name you or your company in the post.
It is Straub Tech's reputation that reinforced my decision to get a replacement instead of a full refund that was offered. Other customers told me they stand behind what they sell and this goes to show that what I was told was indeed correct - thanks Straub Tech.
It is Straub Tech's reputation that reinforced my decision to get a replacement instead of a full refund that was offered. Other customers told me they stand behind what they sell and this goes to show that what I was told was indeed correct - thanks Straub Tech.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Quality control always has to be a priority. That said people make mistakes and are not perfect. When these mistakes happen how you respond reflects on your character. I am sure this will be addressed to the OP's satisfaction. I would not hesitate buying from Chris as he has proven to be a stand up guy by taking responsibility and making it right, giving the OP the option of new heads or refund.
BTW, My AFR heads needed the guides opened up .001 out of the box to get correct, minimum guide to valve stem clearances and they are supposed to be the best.
BTW, My AFR heads needed the guides opened up .001 out of the box to get correct, minimum guide to valve stem clearances and they are supposed to be the best.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
Wow, Chris - I am pretty impressed that you would write this. Most companies would run the other way at a thread like this - especially since I did not name you or your company in the post.
It is Straub Tech's reputation that reinforced my decision to get a replacement instead of a full refund that was offered. Other customers told me they stand behind what they sell and this goes to show that what I was told was indeed correct - thanks Straub Tech.
It is Straub Tech's reputation that reinforced my decision to get a replacement instead of a full refund that was offered. Other customers told me they stand behind what they sell and this goes to show that what I was told was indeed correct - thanks Straub Tech.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
Likes: 2
I guess that puts me in the uncomfortable position of being a dick! If I bought heads( requiring precision machining to tight tolerances) I would expect them to be tested before they left the factory. I bought some underwear the other day and found an, inspected by, sticker in them. It's been my experience that if those deficiencies were not caught by the purchaser prior to installation there would be all kinds of issues as to what the cause of his poor running car could be and then a question of whose fault it is. I agree that the seller in this case is a stand up company. I just hope they are not also the manufacturer.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
Anybody want to come forward and claim this one? This was sent to me as a defective set of Morel lifters.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/22920775...type=1&theater
Last edited by StraubTech; Feb 14, 2014 at 04:52 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
I guess that puts me in the uncomfortable position of being a dick! If I bought heads( requiring precision machining to tight tolerances) I would expect them to be tested before they left the factory. I bought some underwear the other day and found an, inspected by, sticker in them. It's been my experience that if those deficiencies were not caught by the purchaser prior to installation there would be all kinds of issues as to what the cause of his poor running car could be and then a question of whose fault it is. I agree that the seller in this case is a stand up company. I just hope they are not also the manufacturer.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/22920775...type=1&theater
If I don't chances are he goes on the web and post morel lifters are junk. Some may take this as the gospel and then they post that they "heard" Morel lifters are junk and the who they heard it from has been building engines for 30 years and that Morels QC is no good.
I can tell you right now, the "builder" that filled these lifters with grease is not at fault if you ask him.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,000
Likes: 299
From: New York
So am I a dick if I don't refund this customer his money for these "defective" lifters?
https://www.facebook.com/#!/22920775...type=1&theater
If I don't chances are he goes on the web and post morel lifters are junk. Some may take this as the gospel and then they post that they "heard" Morel lifters are junk and the who they heard it from has been building engines for 30 years and that Morels QC is no good.
I can tell you right now, the "builder" that filled these lifters with grease is not at fault if you ask him.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/22920775...type=1&theater
If I don't chances are he goes on the web and post morel lifters are junk. Some may take this as the gospel and then they post that they "heard" Morel lifters are junk and the who they heard it from has been building engines for 30 years and that Morels QC is no good.
I can tell you right now, the "builder" that filled these lifters with grease is not at fault if you ask him.
I would like to offer some business advice I have been at it 25 years.
Always do what is right , not right for any specific person but right based on the item's involved. I did not fix 1700 shingles or did I fix the 6 we did put on. I was sued and won it was the first time in 25 years I ever had a problem I could not solve by doing what is right with out others involved.
The right thing to do is keep records , let the client know his error and let him or her suggest a solution. If there solution it is you take it 100% on the chin you do not have a customer no matter what you do. Your a bum and even if you replace the parts that brand is junk. And your no good for selling them.
So do the right thing and do not cave into demands from a person who is going to have few friends anyway and who's word is of no consequence to anybody but themselves.
There is no trophy or parade for doing right , the reward is in the act itself
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,674
Likes: 122
From: Millington Illinois
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
I guess that puts me in the uncomfortable position of being a dick! If I bought heads( requiring precision machining to tight tolerances) I would expect them to be tested before they left the factory. I bought some underwear the other day and found an, inspected by, sticker in them. It's been my experience that if those deficiencies were not caught by the purchaser prior to installation there would be all kinds of issues as to what the cause of his poor running car could be and then a question of whose fault it is. I agree that the seller in this case is a stand up company. I just hope they are not also the manufacturer.