LOOK, guys , on this heat soak issue, the plain facts are....that starter will have to be well over the plastic melt temp range before any theoretical copper wire resistance change will push the unit over the hill with reguard to doing it's job....simple fact...and all the IEEE and college will not change my mind on the issue,,....look it's plenty hot here in Florida...and to YES the windings may increase in resistance slightly, and ALONG WITH OTHER MORE GOVERNING FACTORS, combine to cause a 'heat soak problem'....but it NOT the damn change in resistance of copper, that sort of sh it was taken care of well enough in the deserts of AZ and NM by GM long time ago...like back in the daze of the starter's inventor...Kettering....
so lets stop the crap, if the rest of the electrical system is up to snuff, the stock starters work fine, up to about 300F....or so, beyond that, I suspect it's a plastic melt job and instant flames....battery explosion...etc...

I know my electronics and electricals pretty good too, dun my stint with engineering....design tech....lemme tell you what, caught some engineers in a mis=statement or two in that 4.5 years also....good laughs...not trying to pick a fight here, but reality is reality, and that is...the damn starter has enough ***** toturn over the engine IF the electricals are right, AND the engine is not so severely over temperature for the initial timing/compression it runs at....NOW if the starter drags under those conditions, the engine is say 250f ++ in temp....all bets are off, but it NOT a heat soaked starter condition...period....

GENE

 

Hey Gary how you been? Since this thread is talking cables, do you guys make your own ground cables or purchase them? If they are homemade, where would I find the bulk wire and connectors? Reason I ask is one of my grounds (near the starter) looks a little frayed and I would like to get some bulk cable and ends and redo this one and any grounds that look similar.

 

my 79 has had a bad problem with this. had the starter rebuilt. still problematic. bought one of the thermal starter wraps. has helped quite a bit. also know im due for a new battery. one adjvatage of the 4speed. if its hot enought not to start... its hot enough to be easy to push start. on hot days i always try to park facing downhill :) :D

 

I had problems with my starter and found out it was the rubber grommet surrounding the copper wires that attach the starter to the celiniod was a bit torn shorting out when hot....

 

Hey Rob,
I'm still working on vettes! :crazy: I put new cables on the 69 and Standard Ignition still makes them.

Thanks guys for the continual input. I'm sure I track down the problem.
Gary

 

Hey Gary... if it's heat soak like my own starter has, it will do it consistently when your engine is hot, also assuming the outside temp is consistently hot. If it's intermittent, and only does it sometimes when the engine is hot, then it's not heat soak. When the days and nights here in Raleigh are cooler, I do not have the problem. Only when it gets into the 90's and stays there all day. In my 66 small block, where the starter is farther away from the heat source, I never have the problem. When I put the SB starter in the 454.... it gets heat soak.

Also... if your terminals have frayed wires (half of them broken off by the terminal) this can also cause a problem because you have effectively cut the wire gauge in half.

Gene ... if you're not nice I'm gonna tell momma on you. :)

 

All I know is I went through several starters when I had the same problem and, after finally installing a CVR Protorque starter and heat blanket, I have not had a problem. Wire, solenoid, frayed nerves, who cares. This starter and this heat blanket fixed it. In the 100 degree Houston temps for the last two years. Theoretical falls below practical in my experience.

 

Thanks Tom, like I said earlier I found a spring here in CT. I'll give it a try since I have it. It's not as long as the original spring-less tension. I took a look at the "S" wire. It was spliced in the past and I found 12 awg spliced to 14 awg at the last 4" to the terminal. It was neatly wrapped but undersize. The print I have calls for 12 awg wire. I'm going to solder splice a piece of 10 awg primary wire that I have and shrink tube it. I'll solder a ring terminal on the end. I'll keep my meter in the car when I go out and see what happens. I'm going to look at the clutch safety switch too I know that was out many years ago maybe there's a connection issue there.
I'll post what I find. I have an S10 I bought new in 85 that I had the samne thing happen to. Someone borrowed the truck and when I got it back it was dead in the yard. I by-passed the clutch switch and it has been fine ever since.
:cheers:
Gary