Headers ON or OFF?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Headers ON or OFF?
When dropping in a 350, that is. Never done this before.
Is there enough room for an engine with headers to be dropped in a '73? Alot easier to install the headers with the engine on a stand rather than in the car of course.
TIA
Steve
Is there enough room for an engine with headers to be dropped in a '73? Alot easier to install the headers with the engine on a stand rather than in the car of course.
TIA
Steve
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,729
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From: Austin Texas
Corvette of the Year Winner 2017
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
install Headers off, .....actually it is easiest at the same time,
as you lower motor into position, have someone loosly slip header in place,
as engine is set into place. bolt them on after you install the main motor mount bolts.
and ..... after Starter is installed. good luck !
as you lower motor into position, have someone loosly slip header in place,
as engine is set into place. bolt them on after you install the main motor mount bolts.
and ..... after Starter is installed. good luck !
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,454
Likes: 977
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
i just did this procedure. On my 78 L-82 with AC, I don't think I could get the motor past the upper control arms as I recall with SHORTY headers on the engine. I removed and installed without the headers on.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Likes: 3
From: Johnston Rhode Island
install Headers off, .....actually it is easiest at the same time,
as you lower motor into position, have someone loosly slip header in place,
as engine is set into place. bolt them on after you install the main motor mount bolts.
and ..... after Starter is installed. good luck !
as you lower motor into position, have someone loosly slip header in place,
as engine is set into place. bolt them on after you install the main motor mount bolts.
and ..... after Starter is installed. good luck !
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
Likes: 247
From: San Jose CA
I just did this (and posted a thread asking the same question) roughly 2 weeks ago. 
I agree with the others, I can't see how you could do this with the headers on.
I ended up dropping the motor in without the headers and brought them in later. It was trivial to bring them in from the bottom of the car. Starter had to come off on the passenger side, driver's side was no issue. I had the car up on rhino ramps (SUV type) in the front and leveled out with jack stands in the back.
I agree with the others, I can't see how you could do this with the headers on.
I ended up dropping the motor in without the headers and brought them in later. It was trivial to bring them in from the bottom of the car. Starter had to come off on the passenger side, driver's side was no issue. I had the car up on rhino ramps (SUV type) in the front and leveled out with jack stands in the back.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
Whenever I remove my headers (or engine), header clearance issues and order of removal/install sting me.
I have 700R4 but its external dimensions down around the converter and starter are practically identical to the TH350.
If I try to drop my engine in with headers on engine, I have to remove them to put the splash pan back over the converter (once I attach the three flywheel bolts to converter).
I have found that the following approach works best for my Gen 1 when the trans is already in the car with converter in place:
From here, it is up to you on order of attaching/installing connections and top end items.
I have 700R4 but its external dimensions down around the converter and starter are practically identical to the TH350.
If I try to drop my engine in with headers on engine, I have to remove them to put the splash pan back over the converter (once I attach the three flywheel bolts to converter).
I have found that the following approach works best for my Gen 1 when the trans is already in the car with converter in place:
- I am assuming the idler arm has already been separated from RH frame rail and out of the way.
- Position engine in engine bay resting on the motor mounts but not yet attached (with engine supported on the crane and underneath)
- Align and attach flywheel-to-converter bolts and transmission-to-engine bolts (ensure the engine and trans surfaces are touching... do not 'pull' the engine onto the transmission as this can strain both surfaces).
- Align and attach motor mounts (with engine supported)
- Install converter cover
- Install fuel pump
- Feed the RH header from underside and have helper suspend RH header loosely from above but do not attach to engine/exhaust (I use bungee cords)
- Install RH dipstick TUBE loosly in block. If Left-hand, you can install once headers are installed. Mine is nearly impossible to locate and attach once my starter is installed
- Install starter. Attach front starter bracket and dipstick tube to lower block on same bolt. I also happen to attach the heavy battery cable to this but you can attach the cable to other hard block surfaces it can reach
- Route ignition wires if they are routed using stock shielding on underside of engine.
- Install engine oil filter if clearance issues with LH header. I install it last just before I fill the engine and prime with oil.
- Install headers to engine block (I also fish the LH header from under the car). The car is suspended on 4-corner jack stands.
From here, it is up to you on order of attaching/installing connections and top end items.
Last edited by TedH; Jul 11, 2014 at 02:03 PM.
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Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Austin Texas
Corvette of the Year Winner 2017
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
pull them plugs out, murpheys law will snap 1 or 2 right off.
typically you do not install with the lift chain bolted to the rear block.
it will be in-between the eng and tranny and you will have start over and move the chain.
typically you do not install with the lift chain bolted to the rear block.
it will be in-between the eng and tranny and you will have start over and move the chain.
Last edited by 69Vett; Jul 11, 2014 at 02:55 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
Agree. When I have one length of engine lift chain, I normally attach to the left front corner intake bolt and right rear corner intake bolt that tap into the cylinder heads. I use the four, 90-degree brackets on my leveler chain (on my cherry picker) and attach to the four corner bolts where intake manifold attaches to cylinder heads. I normally do not drop the engine into the engine bay with fuel pump, carb/intake on the engine as it is one more item that can get in the way and add weight.
Last edited by TedH; Jul 11, 2014 at 03:45 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,399
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From: San Jose CA
I installed the fuel pump before dropping the motor in. I'd recommend leaving the water pump off and any pulleys in front of the balancers. The only caveat I had when dropping mine in was that it was very tight front-to-back. We tilted the motor a little as we brought it down. My radiator was in and I had a bellhousing (manual) on the back of my block.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Thanks folks.
I like the idea of:
Plugs OUT,
Water pump OFF,
Nothing but Timing Cover & Balancer out front,
Fuel pump ON (Pump's hard line fitting to the Carburetor's a bitch to thread),
Chain lift from the 4 corner bolts of the Intake Manifold (But will the aluminum Heads and Intake Manifold hold the weight safely?).
I've got new mounts for the sides. Unsure of the rear mount's condition, but will replace it too just for consistency anyway.
Flex Plate Bolts torque to 60 ft/lbs. Right?
And approximately what angle/tilt of the motor (front to back) can I expect the engine to be for insertion. 10 degrees down? 20?
I like the idea of:
Plugs OUT,
Water pump OFF,
Nothing but Timing Cover & Balancer out front,
Fuel pump ON (Pump's hard line fitting to the Carburetor's a bitch to thread),
Chain lift from the 4 corner bolts of the Intake Manifold (But will the aluminum Heads and Intake Manifold hold the weight safely?).
I've got new mounts for the sides. Unsure of the rear mount's condition, but will replace it too just for consistency anyway.
Flex Plate Bolts torque to 60 ft/lbs. Right?
And approximately what angle/tilt of the motor (front to back) can I expect the engine to be for insertion. 10 degrees down? 20?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
Thanks folks.
I like the idea of:
Plugs OUT,
Water pump OFF,
Nothing but Timing Cover & Balancer out front,
Fuel pump ON (Pump's hard line fitting to the Carburetor's a bitch to thread),
Chain lift from the 4 corner bolts of the Intake Manifold (But will the aluminum Heads and Intake Manifold hold the weight safely?).
I've got new mounts for the sides. Unsure of the rear mount's condition, but will replace it too just for consistency anyway.
Flex Plate Bolts torque to 60 ft/lbs. Right?
And approximately what angle/tilt of the motor (front to back) can I expect the engine to be for insertion. 10 degrees down? 20?
I like the idea of:
Plugs OUT,
Water pump OFF,
Nothing but Timing Cover & Balancer out front,
Fuel pump ON (Pump's hard line fitting to the Carburetor's a bitch to thread),
Chain lift from the 4 corner bolts of the Intake Manifold (But will the aluminum Heads and Intake Manifold hold the weight safely?).
I've got new mounts for the sides. Unsure of the rear mount's condition, but will replace it too just for consistency anyway.
Flex Plate Bolts torque to 60 ft/lbs. Right?
And approximately what angle/tilt of the motor (front to back) can I expect the engine to be for insertion. 10 degrees down? 20?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
I used an engine leveler on my cherry picker so that I could adjust as I was lowering it into the engine bay. It came with the 4-corner chains and threaded leveler which made adjustment a snap. It also made the job of engine removal and re-install a one-man job (me). My cherry picker folds up and I keep it in a corner of my shed so it is there when I next pull the engine.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1021
Should arrive here Tuesday.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 126
From: San Diego California
After looking at clearance issues with the aft section of the upper Control Arm Shaft, the Fuel pump is coming OFF before engine installation.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,454
Likes: 977
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN