Electrical Question - Starter
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,712
Likes: 31
From: Shreveport LA
LA Events Coordinator
Electrical Question - Starter
I have a problem with my '75. She won't start after being driven a while and the operating temps get up there.
Here are the symptoms...I get in the Vette and all the electricity in the Vette works...lights, electric clock...everything. Then when I insert the key (everything still works) BUY when I turn the key to crank the engine, ALL THE ELECTRICITY in the car, quits....how do I know this?...The electirc clock stops and no courtesy lights. When I return the key to the "off" postion, all the electricity comes back on..(clock begins to work and the courtesy lights work).
Now the wierd part....when she cools down, she starts just fine with no problems.
WHY?? Don't want to spend my time chasing downthe gremlin....
Here are the symptoms...I get in the Vette and all the electricity in the Vette works...lights, electric clock...everything. Then when I insert the key (everything still works) BUY when I turn the key to crank the engine, ALL THE ELECTRICITY in the car, quits....how do I know this?...The electirc clock stops and no courtesy lights. When I return the key to the "off" postion, all the electricity comes back on..(clock begins to work and the courtesy lights work).
Now the wierd part....when she cools down, she starts just fine with no problems.
WHY?? Don't want to spend my time chasing downthe gremlin....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,842
Likes: 285
From: Palmdale CA
Also, the original Chevy Starters are infamous for hot start problems. I replaced mine, with a cheap, hi-torque mini-starter for a $100 and have had zero problems since.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 205
From: Lewes Delaware
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,712
Likes: 31
From: Shreveport LA
LA Events Coordinator
Just spoke with my mechanic and he wants the car to fail so he can trace the problem....either a short or an open somewhere.
This morning he went to start the car and it failed like it did to me. He checked the connections to the battery, the starter and the ground. Everything was OK. He raised the front of the car & looked underneath and checked the wiring looking for any evidence of the problem. Not finding anything, he lowered the car, got in and it functioned perfectly (started like normal) when moments before it had failed.
I'm almost sure that HEAT has something to do with it failing. Tomorrow he's going to replicate the situation to see if it will fail again. He's a Master Mechanic with 28 years at the local Chevy dealership. In fact, he's the ONLY one who I will let work on my Vette....having it 13 years, he knows my car and he's stumped.
Any help will be very appreciated....
This morning he went to start the car and it failed like it did to me. He checked the connections to the battery, the starter and the ground. Everything was OK. He raised the front of the car & looked underneath and checked the wiring looking for any evidence of the problem. Not finding anything, he lowered the car, got in and it functioned perfectly (started like normal) when moments before it had failed.
I'm almost sure that HEAT has something to do with it failing. Tomorrow he's going to replicate the situation to see if it will fail again. He's a Master Mechanic with 28 years at the local Chevy dealership. In fact, he's the ONLY one who I will let work on my Vette....having it 13 years, he knows my car and he's stumped.
Any help will be very appreciated....
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
Likes: 54
From: Taylor Michigan
Bad starters don't ever crank, plus everything under the hood is always hot
check the ground from the battery to the frame....Many don't even know its right by the drivers seat
and use a good brand, not copper sprayed aluminum....Save yourself a lot of grief....
check the ground from the battery to the frame....Many don't even know its right by the drivers seat
and use a good brand, not copper sprayed aluminum....Save yourself a lot of grief....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
My first guess would be hot start with the solenoid. I do know a weak batt will allow all the lights to "dim" when turned to start.
It sounds like an internal short inside the starter solenoid or motor. One check of course would be a starter swap. Next would be a methodical isolation of circuits. U can start with pulling fuses one at a time. Keep a written record so u dont repeat the same efforts. Next u can pull one device connector at at time - here it very important to document which devices have been isolated and the results.
Hope this can help.
It sounds like an internal short inside the starter solenoid or motor. One check of course would be a starter swap. Next would be a methodical isolation of circuits. U can start with pulling fuses one at a time. Keep a written record so u dont repeat the same efforts. Next u can pull one device connector at at time - here it very important to document which devices have been isolated and the results.
Hope this can help.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 45
From: Cameron Park CA
Don't throw parts at it! It sounds like you have an intermittent poor connection. Check all connections, take them apart, look them over, clean the surfaces and reassemble. Including the contacts in the selnoid.
We're talking about a basic DC curcuit, no rocket science here.
We're talking about a basic DC curcuit, no rocket science here.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,126
Likes: 15
Hey Stuart. The most likely culprit is the starter solenoid as mentioned above or the brushes in the motor part of the starter. I have gotten many Chevys started by hitting the starter with a couple of light blows from a hammer. The fact that it started normally after being lowered is what makes me think the starter is the problem. The next time it does this, hopefully in your driveway, tap the starter then try again. The cables and connections have to be in excellent shape also of course. A cable can look perfectly fine from the outside but be severely corroded internally. The copper under the insulation can be corroded with time and cause a loss of current carrying capability. Is this a stock starter or some chrome thing?
mike...
mike...
Last edited by mds3013; Aug 23, 2014 at 03:45 AM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,712
Likes: 31
From: Shreveport LA
LA Events Coordinator
Hey Stuart. The most likely culprit is the starter solenoid as mentioned above or the brushes in the motor part of the starter. I have gotten many Chevys started by hitting the starter with a couple of light blows from a hammer. The fact that it started normally after being lowered is what makes me think the starter is the problem. The next time it does this, hopefully in your driveway, tap the starter then try again. The cables and connections have to be in excellent shape also of course. A cable can look perfectly fine from the outside but be severely corroded internally. The copper under the insulation can be corroded with time and cause a loss of current carrying capability. Is this a stock starter or some chrome thing? mike...
mike...And "no" the starter is not some chrome thing
(you're bad ) It's an MSD Mini Starter that I had installed about 9 years ago.And the last question....do you have to get a new starter because the solenoid is built in the starter or can you just get a new solenoid?
Thanks!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 205
From: Lewes Delaware
Vetteguy75 said:
"Thanks Mike! I will definitely look into that. Would a bad solenoid/bad starter make the car completely lose all electricity when I turn the key to start it? And then have all the electricity return when I turn the key to the "off" position? "
I had the same reaction when I had the problem with my 73. When in start, the amp meter would swing to -40 and nothing else would work. When off, amp meter would swing to 0 and all would work. One cooled, the car would start normally.
Problem disappeared after starter was rebuilt (with upgraded solenoid) and I correctly wired the R & S wires to it.
Fran
"Thanks Mike! I will definitely look into that. Would a bad solenoid/bad starter make the car completely lose all electricity when I turn the key to start it? And then have all the electricity return when I turn the key to the "off" position? "
I had the same reaction when I had the problem with my 73. When in start, the amp meter would swing to -40 and nothing else would work. When off, amp meter would swing to 0 and all would work. One cooled, the car would start normally.
Problem disappeared after starter was rebuilt (with upgraded solenoid) and I correctly wired the R & S wires to it.
Fran
Last edited by Blue73Shark; Aug 23, 2014 at 06:41 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,126
Likes: 15
On my '77 the radio and A/C systems shut down when starting even when I have the neutral kill switch turned off. Courtesy lights stay on. I am not familiar with the MSD starter but it should be able to suffer the same problems as a stock one. One last thought, when it will not start, turn on your headlights. If they go out then the problem is most likely cable related. mike...
Last edited by mds3013; Aug 23, 2014 at 07:46 AM.