I just don't get it. AFR 180 VS 195
01-04-2015, 01:55 PM
#121
Safety Car
Everyone can like something different. I never come on this forum try to imply what i like is the way for most street cars. Only a small percentage on this forum like what i do always have understood that shortly after i came on this forum a few yrs ago.
A hydraulic roller is a great option for the vast majority of people. Could someone make more power at lower rpms with a solid sure they could. But the trade off would never be worth it to the vast majority of folks.
Never Talked to Mamo but from another site certainly know who he is and have an understanding of what this man knows. I went through the roof a bit when it seemed he was not being listened to got a bit sarcastic.
A hydraulic roller is a great option for the vast majority of people. Could someone make more power at lower rpms with a solid sure they could. But the trade off would never be worth it to the vast majority of folks.
Never Talked to Mamo but from another site certainly know who he is and have an understanding of what this man knows. I went through the roof a bit when it seemed he was not being listened to got a bit sarcastic.
It happens to us all
01-04-2015, 09:14 PM
#123
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,616
Received 1,877 Likes
on
915 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
......I have not come on here say gee what you need is a 210/220 head for your street hydraulic cam 383. That would be beyond rediculous.
Wouldn't scare me in the least!!
Tony...if you're still hanging out in this thread....great to see you at it again! Heard you were running around PRI but I missed you. Good luck with the new venture!
JIM
Wouldn't scare me in the least!!
Tony...if you're still hanging out in this thread....great to see you at it again! Heard you were running around PRI but I missed you. Good luck with the new venture!
JIM
Last edited by 427Hotrod; 01-04-2015 at 09:17 PM.
01-04-2015, 10:03 PM
#124
......I have not come on here say gee what you need is a 210/220 head for your street hydraulic cam 383. That would be beyond rediculous.
Wouldn't scare me in the least!!
Tony...if you're still hanging out in this thread....great to see you at it again! Heard you were running around PRI but I missed you. Good luck with the new venture!
JIM
Wouldn't scare me in the least!!
Tony...if you're still hanging out in this thread....great to see you at it again! Heard you were running around PRI but I missed you. Good luck with the new venture!
JIM
Last edited by Little Mouse; 01-04-2015 at 10:12 PM.
01-05-2015, 02:55 PM
#125
......I have not come on here say gee what you need is a 210/220 head for your street hydraulic cam 383. That would be beyond rediculous.
Wouldn't scare me in the least!!
Tony...if you're still hanging out in this thread....great to see you at it again! Heard you were running around PRI but I missed you. Good luck with the new venture!
JIM
Wouldn't scare me in the least!!
Tony...if you're still hanging out in this thread....great to see you at it again! Heard you were running around PRI but I missed you. Good luck with the new venture!
JIM
Sorry I missed you Jim. Hopefully we run into one another next year
New venture keeping me busy....lots of things to put in place. I knew the first few years were going to be this way but now I'm living it....there is a difference!
Good stuff.....exciting.....hope your doing well also
Cheers,
Tony
01-05-2015, 06:53 PM
#126
Melting Slicks
Afr 195 1036 ?
I noticed today while mounting the intake to the heads that I can see some of the rocker studs inside the intake port. The question is regarding sealing of the stud. What should be used? Procudure? Do I put ARP assy lube under the shoulder of stud, and sealant on the threads? Suggestions, thanks T
01-05-2015, 06:57 PM
#127
Drifting
I noticed today while mounting the intake to the heads that I can see some of the rocker studs inside the intake port. The question is regarding sealing of the stud. What should be used? Procudure? Do I put ARP assy lube under the shoulder of stud, and sealant on the threads? Suggestions, thanks T
01-05-2015, 10:03 PM
#129
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,616
Received 1,877 Likes
on
915 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Still visiting the thread.....LOL
Sorry I missed you Jim. Hopefully we run into one another next year
New venture keeping me busy....lots of things to put in place. I knew the first few years were going to be this way but now I'm living it....there is a difference!
Good stuff.....exciting.....hope your doing well also
Cheers,
Tony
Sorry I missed you Jim. Hopefully we run into one another next year
New venture keeping me busy....lots of things to put in place. I knew the first few years were going to be this way but now I'm living it....there is a difference!
Good stuff.....exciting.....hope your doing well also
Cheers,
Tony
JIM
01-05-2015, 11:01 PM
#131
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Posts: 7,098
Received 373 Likes
on
356 Posts
3.08:1 gears Hmmm. Where does that fit in the bigger is better equation? Anyone here ever drive a dynomometer through a parking lot or 4 O'clock stop and go traffic?
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
01-06-2015, 12:06 AM
#132
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,616
Received 1,877 Likes
on
915 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
What's wrong with points at 6000 rpm? Huh?
I made well over 800 HP with a single point distributor. no MSD and a parts store Bosch coil. Never missed a beat at 7500+.
JIM
I made well over 800 HP with a single point distributor. no MSD and a parts store Bosch coil. Never missed a beat at 7500+.
JIM
01-06-2015, 04:43 AM
#133
Safety Car
3.08:1 gears Hmmm. Where does that fit in the bigger is better equation? Anyone here ever drive a dynomometer through a parking lot or 4 O'clock stop and go traffic?
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
DO MA NEU!
01-06-2015, 10:42 AM
#134
Race Director
3.08:1 gears Hmmm. Where does that fit in the bigger is better equation? Anyone here ever drive a dynomometer through a parking lot or 4 O'clock stop and go traffic?
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
OP has 3.70 not 3.08.
You can't drive a dyno.
Of course a bigger cam lowers DCR.
Who said anything about angle milling anything???
The op rarely runs over 5000. Point distributor is fine.
WTF are you even talking about and what post or who is this even directed at????
01-06-2015, 10:50 AM
#135
3.08:1 gears Hmmm. Where does that fit in the bigger is better equation? Anyone here ever drive a dynomometer through a parking lot or 4 O'clock stop and go traffic?
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
Bigger cam means lower DCR. Thats a fact jack. Just like gravity. Are u ready to angle mill???
Points distributor at 6,000rpm? Hmmmm.
I cant take it anymore.
Last edited by Little Mouse; 01-06-2015 at 11:32 AM.
01-06-2015, 12:24 PM
#136
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2000
Location: Corsicana, Tx
Posts: 12,616
Received 1,877 Likes
on
915 Posts
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
That had to be an interesting car show!!
JIM
JIM
01-06-2015, 06:33 PM
#137
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Posts: 7,098
Received 373 Likes
on
356 Posts
Post #38: All that said...you've got a M-21 and 3.70 gears....so it's got some challenges at low speed anyway. That's not much gear for off the line acceleration...even less than a set of 3.36's and a wide ratio trans...which still isn't much.
Post #77: If you dyno'ed them both the 195 would start making more power and torque as early as 3000 RPM's and make alot more by 5000....even more at 6000 where this engine would easily want to rev to even with a conservative bumpstick. That is NOT alot of RPM for this much stroke.....its just alot of fun
Post #83: My thoughts are if you really plan to use the power you are deciding to purchase in the first place no one should be afraid of 6K or even 6500 for that matter in a nice street car. That means your camming the combo to peak around 6000 with a nice roll off....shift around 6500. A very mellow street friendly cam can accomplish that and the better the head the smaller the cam needs to be to pull it off....win win again on the better flowing head.
Post #87: My vision of this 383 is the right custom grind on a 110 LSA and a low 220's intake lobe would be very street friendly, have a slight lope at an idle Z(just enough to know its not stock)....take throttle perfectly....and run strong to 6500 with the right cylinder head choice (the 195's in this case if your subscribing to my entire philosophy about making this build better balanced). I spec a half dozen custom cams a week so trust me when I tell you that this cam is NOT too big....its on the mild side.
Post #90: Oh lord Mr Mamo you now have mentioned over 6000rpm. You now are officially black listed as trying to make racing engines. You must be evil lol.
Post #132: What's wrong with points at 6000 rpm? Huh?
I made well over 800 HP with a single point distributor. no MSD and a parts store Bosch coil. Never missed a beat at 7500+.
Well u are the only person i have ever, ever heard claim that. That and the guy that rides a dynomometer in parking lots.
Yes no one else said anything 'bout angle milling - u are correct.
Post #77: If you dyno'ed them both the 195 would start making more power and torque as early as 3000 RPM's and make alot more by 5000....even more at 6000 where this engine would easily want to rev to even with a conservative bumpstick. That is NOT alot of RPM for this much stroke.....its just alot of fun
Post #83: My thoughts are if you really plan to use the power you are deciding to purchase in the first place no one should be afraid of 6K or even 6500 for that matter in a nice street car. That means your camming the combo to peak around 6000 with a nice roll off....shift around 6500. A very mellow street friendly cam can accomplish that and the better the head the smaller the cam needs to be to pull it off....win win again on the better flowing head.
Post #87: My vision of this 383 is the right custom grind on a 110 LSA and a low 220's intake lobe would be very street friendly, have a slight lope at an idle Z(just enough to know its not stock)....take throttle perfectly....and run strong to 6500 with the right cylinder head choice (the 195's in this case if your subscribing to my entire philosophy about making this build better balanced). I spec a half dozen custom cams a week so trust me when I tell you that this cam is NOT too big....its on the mild side.
Post #90: Oh lord Mr Mamo you now have mentioned over 6000rpm. You now are officially black listed as trying to make racing engines. You must be evil lol.
Post #132: What's wrong with points at 6000 rpm? Huh?
I made well over 800 HP with a single point distributor. no MSD and a parts store Bosch coil. Never missed a beat at 7500+.
Well u are the only person i have ever, ever heard claim that. That and the guy that rides a dynomometer in parking lots.
Yes no one else said anything 'bout angle milling - u are correct.
01-06-2015, 08:45 PM
#138
04-20-2017, 10:08 AM
#139
Racer
I would run 195's on this engine for a multitude of reasons
You have the added displacement of the larger motor which instantly adds 40-45 ft/lbs of torque as a by product of displacement increase (a small head to crutch that situation isn't necessary).
Bigger engines need larger ports and more air to be efficient....they have larger appetites for air
An RPM Air Gap is also going to bolster the torque at the expense of some HP.....the larger deeper breathing 195 will help midrange and top of the curve while the added displacement and long runner dual plane with help the bottom and transition to the middle RPM range (creating a better balanced package).
You have a head to grow with in the future, not grow out of should you ever consider a little more cam and a single plane intake to add 30-40 HP to the top end down the road a ways (this hobby is addictive....its hard to just stop).
Also, an Air Gap is a better out of the box match for a 195 than it is a 180.....the ports of the intake opening in the head would be smaller than the outlet if the intake.
If you dyno'ed them both the 195 would start making more power and torque as early as 3000 RPM's and make alot more by 5000....even more at 6000 where this engine would easily want to rev to even with a conservative bumpstick. That is NOT alot of RPM for this much stroke.....its just alot of fun
The 180's would be a nice bump in output over you current heads without a doubt....but for similar money, the 195's are even better value.
All this coming from the guy who designed the entire AFR SBC Eliminator product line and spent more time with them on the dyno than most.
In the event the OP doesn't want to change his mind this is certainly food for thought for others reading this a week from now, a month from now, or two years from now.
Dont get hung up on small ports.....the 195 is still very efficient and sized perfectly for the combination in question....hell they run great on 350's and make loads of torque even with the smaller displacement (assuming the same intake discussed).
Sorry Im late to the party....a friend send me this link thinking I may be of some help in this thread.
Happy New Year guys
-Tony
PS....I will be releasing a Mamo Motorsports line of 23' SBC heads early this year (my proprietary new designs in AFR Eliminator castings)....my 200 cc runner is what I would ideally run here but its probably about 2-3 months out. I wouldn't hesitate to run the 195 AFR though....its a good piece and tailor made for this combination for the reasons previously mentioned
You have the added displacement of the larger motor which instantly adds 40-45 ft/lbs of torque as a by product of displacement increase (a small head to crutch that situation isn't necessary).
Bigger engines need larger ports and more air to be efficient....they have larger appetites for air
An RPM Air Gap is also going to bolster the torque at the expense of some HP.....the larger deeper breathing 195 will help midrange and top of the curve while the added displacement and long runner dual plane with help the bottom and transition to the middle RPM range (creating a better balanced package).
You have a head to grow with in the future, not grow out of should you ever consider a little more cam and a single plane intake to add 30-40 HP to the top end down the road a ways (this hobby is addictive....its hard to just stop).
Also, an Air Gap is a better out of the box match for a 195 than it is a 180.....the ports of the intake opening in the head would be smaller than the outlet if the intake.
If you dyno'ed them both the 195 would start making more power and torque as early as 3000 RPM's and make alot more by 5000....even more at 6000 where this engine would easily want to rev to even with a conservative bumpstick. That is NOT alot of RPM for this much stroke.....its just alot of fun
The 180's would be a nice bump in output over you current heads without a doubt....but for similar money, the 195's are even better value.
All this coming from the guy who designed the entire AFR SBC Eliminator product line and spent more time with them on the dyno than most.
In the event the OP doesn't want to change his mind this is certainly food for thought for others reading this a week from now, a month from now, or two years from now.
Dont get hung up on small ports.....the 195 is still very efficient and sized perfectly for the combination in question....hell they run great on 350's and make loads of torque even with the smaller displacement (assuming the same intake discussed).
Sorry Im late to the party....a friend send me this link thinking I may be of some help in this thread.
Happy New Year guys
-Tony
PS....I will be releasing a Mamo Motorsports line of 23' SBC heads early this year (my proprietary new designs in AFR Eliminator castings)....my 200 cc runner is what I would ideally run here but its probably about 2-3 months out. I wouldn't hesitate to run the 195 AFR though....its a good piece and tailor made for this combination for the reasons previously mentioned