Torque Converter recommendation
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 186
Likes: 18
From: Lower Mainland British Columbia
Torque Converter recommendation
My 700R4 is being built for me now, and I will have it in two days. Need to determine the stall for the torque converter.
Here are my specs. let me know if something else is required.
383 with hp and torque curves per the dyno sheet below. up to 5500 rpm.
Will be used for mainly cruising and fun. No drag racing, maybe some slalom course runs.
Rear end is 3.54:1 and rear tires 285/45/18 27" tall.
Thanks,
Kevin
Here are my specs. let me know if something else is required.
383 with hp and torque curves per the dyno sheet below. up to 5500 rpm.
Will be used for mainly cruising and fun. No drag racing, maybe some slalom course runs.
Rear end is 3.54:1 and rear tires 285/45/18 27" tall.
Thanks,
Kevin
Pro
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 730
Likes: 37
From: Catoosa Okla
I went with a Vigilante 3600. Mostly street, some 1/4 mile fun with my boys on weekends. I'm using a 4L60e and pulled the 3:08's out and went with 3:73 gears. With the overdrive, you can have your cake and eat it too. The 3:73's are perfect except for the already real low 1st gear in the 4L60e. It could stand to be a taller gear. I could have went with 3:50 gears, and looking back, I probably would if I had to do it again. Some may think the 3600 is a little high on the stall, but in my opinion, a 3000 stall just isn't enough. Your motor looks really strong. I'd go with a 3600 stall. I'd also go with a billet converter, pay a little more up front and never have to look back. Just my opinion. Good luck!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 186
Likes: 18
From: Lower Mainland British Columbia
Thanks Patro
That seems really high for my use. I thought the range of debate would be 2200 to 2600
Tranny builder said there would be a stall recommendation on the cam card or web site but I could not find one
Any other thoughts out there
That seems really high for my use. I thought the range of debate would be 2200 to 2600
Tranny builder said there would be a stall recommendation on the cam card or web site but I could not find one
Any other thoughts out there
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,529
Likes: 27
From: Auburndale Florida
2025 C2 of the Year ('64-'66) Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '03-'05-'06-'07-'09
Going through the same thing, have a 200R4 on order. Milder set up on a 383 (Trick Flow 195 cc heads, 224*/230* Duration retro roller w/.530/.540 lift, 9.9:1 SCR, 3.55 rear and 26.5 " tires). Best guess is 400 hp /425 torque. My guy recommended 2100-2200 stall. Another recommended 2600 rpm also.
Currently have a 2500 rpm Hughes converter and I can't tell difference from stock. Idles @ 750 rpm in gear no matter what the neutral idle is set at (850-1100)
Different brands of converters will react differently, and every engine is different. So one size does not fit all! I plan on making a few more calls to sort this out. need to get it right.
Picking the correct stall speed seems to be more of an art than a science!!
Currently have a 2500 rpm Hughes converter and I can't tell difference from stock. Idles @ 750 rpm in gear no matter what the neutral idle is set at (850-1100)
Different brands of converters will react differently, and every engine is different. So one size does not fit all! I plan on making a few more calls to sort this out. need to get it right.
Picking the correct stall speed seems to be more of an art than a science!!
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
Likes: 43
From: San Antonio TX
You have to consider how the variables affect stall speed and how your car will react. Bottom line up front: Patro is very much in the ball park. Your car will be disappointing if you go less than 3k stall.
The reason is you have to look at what you have going in resistance to inertia, which comes down to vehicle weight and drive ratios. If you had an Impala with a TH400's 2.48 First gear and a 3.08 rear, the stall speeds you reference would be about right. The heavy car and tall gearing will put more load on the converter and allow it to do things like idle in gear without wanting to pull through the brakes and have a good reaction to the converter's torque multiplication.
A light car with your rear gear and your very low First gear will not see the rated stall speed unless you use a trans brake. It has a lot less resistance to acceleration and won't put as much load on the converter. With a stall speed in the 2.2k to 2.6 range you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference from the stock converter. It will also be harder to get an acceptable idle in gear.
I might not go as high as 3.6k on stall based upon your stated use but I certainly wouldn't go below 3k.
The reason is you have to look at what you have going in resistance to inertia, which comes down to vehicle weight and drive ratios. If you had an Impala with a TH400's 2.48 First gear and a 3.08 rear, the stall speeds you reference would be about right. The heavy car and tall gearing will put more load on the converter and allow it to do things like idle in gear without wanting to pull through the brakes and have a good reaction to the converter's torque multiplication.
A light car with your rear gear and your very low First gear will not see the rated stall speed unless you use a trans brake. It has a lot less resistance to acceleration and won't put as much load on the converter. With a stall speed in the 2.2k to 2.6 range you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference from the stock converter. It will also be harder to get an acceptable idle in gear.
I might not go as high as 3.6k on stall based upon your stated use but I certainly wouldn't go below 3k.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 186
Likes: 18
From: Lower Mainland British Columbia
I don't know about "milder"? Mine has 180 heads, cam specs 218 / 224 duration and .495 / .503 lift. 9.6 SCR. I would expect your hp and torque to be better than mine. (holley fuel injection on RPM air gap)
I am back and forth on picking the torque converter, and art is not my strong point.
I am waiting for a call back from TCI on this also.
Thanks
I am back and forth on picking the torque converter, and art is not my strong point.
I am waiting for a call back from TCI on this also.
Thanks
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 186
Likes: 18
From: Lower Mainland British Columbia
You have to consider how the variables affect stall speed and how your car will react. Bottom line up front: Patro is very much in the ball park. Your car will be disappointing if you go less than 3k stall.
The reason is you have to look at what you have going in resistance to inertia, which comes down to vehicle weight and drive ratios. If you had an Impala with a TH400's 2.48 First gear and a 3.08 rear, the stall speeds you reference would be about right. The heavy car and tall gearing will put more load on the converter and allow it to do things like idle in gear without wanting to pull through the brakes and have a good reaction to the converter's torque multiplication.
A light car with your rear gear and your very low First gear will not see the rated stall speed unless you use a trans brake. It has a lot less resistance to acceleration and won't put as much load on the converter. With a stall speed in the 2.2k to 2.6 range you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference from the stock converter. It will also be harder to get an acceptable idle in gear.
I might not go as high as 3.6k on stall based upon your stated use but I certainly wouldn't go below 3k.
The reason is you have to look at what you have going in resistance to inertia, which comes down to vehicle weight and drive ratios. If you had an Impala with a TH400's 2.48 First gear and a 3.08 rear, the stall speeds you reference would be about right. The heavy car and tall gearing will put more load on the converter and allow it to do things like idle in gear without wanting to pull through the brakes and have a good reaction to the converter's torque multiplication.
A light car with your rear gear and your very low First gear will not see the rated stall speed unless you use a trans brake. It has a lot less resistance to acceleration and won't put as much load on the converter. With a stall speed in the 2.2k to 2.6 range you would be hard pressed to tell much of a difference from the stock converter. It will also be harder to get an acceptable idle in gear.
I might not go as high as 3.6k on stall based upon your stated use but I certainly wouldn't go below 3k.
I did not expect to see 3,000 as the right choice, so now I am likely over analysing and suffering from information overload. ( I looked up too many web sites last night) If only there was a chart to look up.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 186
Likes: 18
From: Lower Mainland British Columbia
TCI recommended their 2,400 to 2,600 converter.
Comment was that for mainly street use with my cam and rear end, that I would find most drivable.
Exact model was "Breakaway #242800"
Still a black art to me. Will let you know if I like it.
Comment was that for mainly street use with my cam and rear end, that I would find most drivable.
Exact model was "Breakaway #242800"
Still a black art to me. Will let you know if I like it.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,529
Likes: 27
From: Auburndale Florida
2025 C2 of the Year ('64-'66) Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '03-'05-'06-'07-'09
I don't know about "milder"? Mine has 180 heads, cam specs 218 / 224 duration and .495 / .503 lift. 9.6 SCR. I would expect your hp and torque to be better than mine. (holley fuel injection on RPM air gap)
I am back and forth on picking the torque converter, and art is not my strong point.
I am waiting for a call back from TCI on this also.
Thanks
I am back and forth on picking the torque converter, and art is not my strong point.
I am waiting for a call back from TCI on this also.
Thanks
Bowtie Overdrives used the term, art form for picking tq converters and recommend 2600 stall. Like you I would like to get it right.
Thanks for starting this thread and sharing. Mark
Last edited by mbeeman350; May 5, 2015 at 09:37 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
Likes: 43
From: San Antonio TX
TCI's recommendation isn't going to be a bad choice for either one of you, just not the best choice. You'll be fine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 201
From: Willoughby Ohio
Another option is to give Kenny a call at ptc and get a custom made unit.
Their service is excellent and they stand behind their products.I agree with the 3000 rpm range for your setup but I would talk to Kenny to dial in your choice.Look them up on yellow bullet or other racing sites, the results will speak for themselves.Good luck with your choice.
Their service is excellent and they stand behind their products.I agree with the 3000 rpm range for your setup but I would talk to Kenny to dial in your choice.Look them up on yellow bullet or other racing sites, the results will speak for themselves.Good luck with your choice.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 42
From: Austin Texas
Another option is to give Kenny a call at ptc and get a custom made unit.
Their service is excellent and they stand behind their products.I agree with the 3000 rpm range for your setup but I would talk to Kenny to dial in your choice.Look them up on yellow bullet or other racing sites, the results will speak for themselves.Good luck with your choice.
Their service is excellent and they stand behind their products.I agree with the 3000 rpm range for your setup but I would talk to Kenny to dial in your choice.Look them up on yellow bullet or other racing sites, the results will speak for themselves.Good luck with your choice.
So I was able to get a new converter,2400 this time, for a different trans and got basically a trade in deal.
PTC would be the first guys I called if I need another.