After reading a bunch of threads on suggested fixes for the dreaded hot start issue, today I installed a Summit mini-starter (product 829000) in my bbc auto 68. All the clearances were good and did not require any shims. After getting it put back together, when I turn the key, all I get is a single strong click which I am assuming is the pinion hitting the flywheel and that is it. Battery reading between the posts is 12.48 and it was starting fine (when cold) as of two days ago.

When I checked the clearances on the old starter, I could pry out the pinion and it would mesh with the flywheel no problem. On this one, most of the time when I pried the pinion out it would not line up with the flywheel teeth and required me to manually rotate the pinion to get it to engage the flywheel. And honestly, I don't know how many teeth the flywheel has but it seems to line up if I rotate the pinion?

1) Any suggestions on what the problem might be?
2) When working properly, I assume that the pinion turns as it is first engaging the flywheel such that the little angle cuts on the pinion teeth align with the flywheel teeth?

Thanks in advance!!

 

the pinion spins as it moves forward to mesh with the flywheel.

Step 1: Does the starter spin if you put 12v on the hot post of the motor, bypassing the solenoid?

 

Gingatim,

First, this morning I had someone available to turn the key while I watched and I now know for certain that the pinion is moving forward and contacting the flywheel, but it is not spinning.

What you suggest makes sense to isolate where the actual problem is but given what I do know now, can I just conclude that it is defective and send it back to Summit since I just bought it? Or, could there be something simple that I am overlooking that would cause this condition?

Having said that, now, back to your question; I'm not exactly certain how I would do that considering the lack of access up there and I don't think there is enough extra wire coming from the battery to lower the starter and use the existing wiring. How would I hook it up to bench test it if I had some extra battery cable? I'm not much of an electrician.

Thanks,

Kelly

 

Pulled the starter and bench tested it using jumper cables. Pinion popped out and started spinning so apparently I need to be looking somewhere else. Any suggestions anyone? The best that I can measure it has a 14 inch flywheel so the starter should work on it.

 

Is there any reason that you didn't go with the OEM replacement?

 

probably because the internet is always telling people that a factory starter won't work and everyone needs a hi-torque starter instead of fixing their problem which is usually timing related.

but I digress...

to benchtest the starter, pull it off and use jumper cables. if it spins properly off the car, find out why your motor is too hard to turn over. you may very well have a bad battery, or, more likely, bad battery cables and/or ground...very verty common...

 

On my 80 I installed a relay in the engine compartment so that the ignition switch only energized the relay. I then ran 12 power through the relay from the battery terminal on the starter. The other side of the relay to the start terminal on the solenoid. Did this 20 years ago and still works great. Found that older ignition switches may not be able to supply enough current to pull the solenoid fully in as they degrade over time.

you can also test on the car by using a big screw drive and short the battery terminal on the starter to the starter motor contact (other side of solenoid).

You can test the ignition switch by crimping a flat blade terminal to a 4 ft piece of wire and connect that end to the start terminal on the starter. Then touch the other end to a 12 volt source. The starter should engage and turn over if the ignition switch.

Cheers

Dave

 

I think it's a basically a myth about hot start , I think it's very seldom the starter itself. Because everybody ignores everything else....or don't understand electric current flow.

Visual is not a proper way to find electric issues .....you need meters.
Stuff goes on inside a component or cable for that matter you can't see.

You have examine the entire loop that starts the car . 40 years age , has a increase in resistance to components , grounds , etc.

These cars rarely had issues new...if left stock ...no headers etc.

One the biggest plus for increasing extreme weather cranking voltage to the starter is to replace the Battery Cables . My motor spins twice as quick when I changed them out about 8 years ago Also.. ....cleaning the main lugs on all the terminals . Having a FULLY charged battery is a must. You d be surprised the amount of people running around on weak old batteries.

Going over the entire electric system . Anywhere there is a switch , there is chance you could be losing current passing ability .

Just because it reads continuity , doesn't mean all is well. The contacts , points of switches wear and lose their ability to pass current.

Clutch safety switches , are really bad about the intermittent , not passing current or enough in certain state of decay.....as they wear internally .

My 454 will spin over at 100 ambient as at 70 *F ....because the electric system is flowing as it should. .....my Battery is 7 years old now , about time to replace.

also ...be sure they is absolutely NO current drain on the battery when your car is a t rest.

 

ok...
1. the mini starter is better and lighter if its not a chines pos
2. you have 4 holes in the mini starter, and 2 in the block... you are using the wrong 2 holes in the mini starter and thus not engaging the flywheel... use the other 2 holes:-)


3... heat soaked is not a myth... it happens... and the mini starter does not do this... I am an degreed electronic engineer... I understand current:-) what happens is starter armature or solenoid (forget which one, as i went mini starter many years ago) expand under heat and the tolerances are not great enough to prevent lock-up..

 

Looking at the starter application in Summit, it is for a 153 tooth flywheel, you say your 68 is an auto trans, if so, you have 168 tooth flywheel so it wont work with your Vette, I would spend a little more money and buy a CVR or one of Summits better built starters if it were my Vette...here is one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...s/applications

 

I have the MSD mini starter... and I had an eBay mini for a while, and the MSD is much better built hands down.

 

I went through several stock and cheap mini starts and finally spent the $250 (10 years ago) on a Summit starter, shimmed it and have had zero issues since.

 

Are you absolutely sure you connected the starter wiring correctly. There are several "black" wires there and they are not all ground!! Verify your wiring.
Just a thought....

 

I'm not so sure. I never had any problems with hot start on my 79 until I checked the timing and found it at 0 degrees. Set it to the factory 8 degrees and now when its hot it cranks slow for a couple of turns and then cranks at normal speed and starts. I think there's a good chance it cranks slow because the exhaust pipe rests against the back of the starter. I could put a dent in the exhaust pipe but thinking a mini-starter would be a better solution.

 

The only way for the armature and field to come into contact with each other is from a bearing failure not because they expand from heat.
The solenoid does not expand to the point where it locks up. One can have a failed coil or more likely the stationary or moving contacts have become pitted and cause excessive resistance.
Mini starters use less current so it appears that the stock starter was at fault when in fact the root cause is in the wiring
I have to agree with LS4PILOT, look elsewhere before blaming your stock starter.

 

Gentlemen just use your brains a little bit....EVERY THING gets hot under the hood ...First put the OE starter back in the car..Those mini starters for 4 cylinder engines have no place in a Corvette....L-88`s are almost 600 HP get very hot and the OE starters work just fine

I don't know what your problem is, but can guarantee it's not the starter....I would look for bad grounds....In our auto parts store we were familiar with what back alley mechanics can incorrectly diagnose problems causing dollars needlessly spent

But this argument has been on the site for years with the same confused result