Terminator efi experiences
08-24-2015, 03:44 PM
#41
I have been studying this sync timing thing and was back to looking at the instructions on the Holley forum. I think I understand the sequence now. The instructions are a little confusing because they are plugged into the ECM with a computer via USB.
The part I failed to mention and kept overlooking is disabling the idle spark control in the idle settings. when setting initial timing using a laptop. If you don't then you are correct, whatever you put into the hand-held will in fact be added to the initial timing. Danny has you going into tables and using 30 degree settings to sync the distributor. Since I just want to use the hand held for now I can disregard all of the other stuff with he laptop.
I will document exactly what I am doing in a numbered sequence without the aid of the computer and just use the hand-held. I think using the computer later is for more precise tuning. I think the confusing part is first position the crankshaft at whatever the initial timing should be for a SBC like 10-18 degrees initial. Once the initial timing is verified on the balancer/crank then you are ready to go. Verify the setting you put on the handheld during set-up, page 28 figure 57, matches the timing light crank reading (if unplugging the TBI and trying this without having the engine running, Better have a fully charged battery :-) . If not then rotate distributor until it does. I will have enough crank timing already set so will do the sync with the engine running. Don't do anything to the hand held. You are trying to sync the crank to the reading in the hand held. then lock down distributor. The number in the set ignition timing at idle should be whatever the timing (crankshaft) is that you set after turning the distributor. Turning the distributor does not change the number in the hand held. This is another area I was confused in. I say 18 degrees because that is where my motor liked it when I had the carb on the motor. 28 degrees will be exactly what I put in the hand-held as the set ignition at idle timing. (my motor liked 18 degrees initial and 10 vacuum advanced to idle happy so the setting in the hand held will be 28 degrees and I just need to rotate the distributor to get 28 on the crank/balancer). Anyway like I stated I will try and document it by the numbers. Danny Cabral has a good explanation on the Holley Forum but he is timing with a laptop and that is what had me confused.
Edit ::: The setting on page 28 figure 57 is not what you are looking for to sync the distributor. That number is to adjust timing later on. Right now mine is set to 20 degrees in that box and it is very happy. So the stuff I mentioned above is not correct. It all works with a distributor with centrifical and vacuum advance but not with the ECM controlling timing. See my Post 43. I am sorry for any confusing stuff I said.
I hope I am not adding to any misunderstanding. This is my understanding of how it's done with the hand held.
Hope those Dakota gauges turn out like you want. They sure look good!.
The part I failed to mention and kept overlooking is disabling the idle spark control in the idle settings. when setting initial timing using a laptop. If you don't then you are correct, whatever you put into the hand-held will in fact be added to the initial timing. Danny has you going into tables and using 30 degree settings to sync the distributor. Since I just want to use the hand held for now I can disregard all of the other stuff with he laptop.
I will document exactly what I am doing in a numbered sequence without the aid of the computer and just use the hand-held. I think using the computer later is for more precise tuning. I think the confusing part is first position the crankshaft at whatever the initial timing should be for a SBC like 10-18 degrees initial. Once the initial timing is verified on the balancer/crank then you are ready to go. Verify the setting you put on the handheld during set-up, page 28 figure 57, matches the timing light crank reading (if unplugging the TBI and trying this without having the engine running, Better have a fully charged battery :-) . If not then rotate distributor until it does. I will have enough crank timing already set so will do the sync with the engine running. Don't do anything to the hand held. You are trying to sync the crank to the reading in the hand held. then lock down distributor. The number in the set ignition timing at idle should be whatever the timing (crankshaft) is that you set after turning the distributor. Turning the distributor does not change the number in the hand held. This is another area I was confused in. I say 18 degrees because that is where my motor liked it when I had the carb on the motor. 28 degrees will be exactly what I put in the hand-held as the set ignition at idle timing. (my motor liked 18 degrees initial and 10 vacuum advanced to idle happy so the setting in the hand held will be 28 degrees and I just need to rotate the distributor to get 28 on the crank/balancer). Anyway like I stated I will try and document it by the numbers. Danny Cabral has a good explanation on the Holley Forum but he is timing with a laptop and that is what had me confused.
Edit ::: The setting on page 28 figure 57 is not what you are looking for to sync the distributor. That number is to adjust timing later on. Right now mine is set to 20 degrees in that box and it is very happy. So the stuff I mentioned above is not correct. It all works with a distributor with centrifical and vacuum advance but not with the ECM controlling timing. See my Post 43. I am sorry for any confusing stuff I said.
I hope I am not adding to any misunderstanding. This is my understanding of how it's done with the hand held.
Hope those Dakota gauges turn out like you want. They sure look good!.
Last edited by condor7; 08-29-2015 at 05:58 PM.
08-25-2015, 06:18 AM
#42
Here is where I mounted the ECM, right front on fenderwell after making a mounting plate. Looks right at home and easy to get to. Also makes all the wiring much easier, for me anyway.
And a shot of the interior where I have the toggle switches for various stuff. The fan switches are over-ride in the event the sensor or ECM fails to activate the fan. Have a small 12 in pusher fan for the A/C or extra cooling if needed (That is fan 2). Halo switch is because I changed the head lights to H4's with Halo LEDs. I can control the Halo's independently of the high/low beam, sort of like the running light you see on BMW's and the such.
Last edited by condor7; 08-25-2015 at 06:24 AM.
08-29-2015, 05:37 PM
#43
Okay now for an update. The system is fully installed and I fired it it up today, did all the timeing stuff and got it to temp and a nice idle. (Kind of high and not where I want it but figured it was just learning)Have not driven it because I was checking several other things before I will go out on the road.
First, I followed all the wiring per the manual and instructions. The only thing I was confused with is the white wire in the EFI harness and what to do with it. Finally figured out that it is for a crank trigger which I don't have so there are two wires (loose) that I did not use, the white one and the yellow (coil only) wire. Just cut them back and taped then off.
Next rechecked all 12 volt sources by cranking over the motor and verifying 12volts everywhere where required. Just turned off the fuel pump over-ride switch so it would not energize the pump. (Read my next post, apparently I did not do a good job of this).
Next there is a sticker on the 02 connector that says not to connect until set up in the program. Well, not to worry, it is already there in the program. I verified this in the hand-held. So it can be hooked up along with the rest of the cables.
So now verify my manual over-ride for the cooling fan is working, just in case. All okay.
next turned key to start position, not trying to start but get get power to everything. The hand held lit right up. Went through the instructions of the Wizard. The turned key off and waited a few seconds, turned back on so the tune is saved in the ECM. Next turned key back on to power everything up and did the TPS set. Green light for everything at this point.
Now time for the sync thing. Well first off I am using the small cap HEI and the MSD 6AL box. (By the way, you use the "white" wire from the 6AL to the distributor). Disabling the fuel pump (via switch) and using a remote starter did not work for me for some reason. Got no strobe light to verify anything. So only other way is to start the engine. I had origionally set the initial timing at 18 degrees. Now to unconfuse things.
The hand held will show the timing that is referenced by the ECM on the screen in the "MONITOR" WINDOW. mine showed 15 degrees. Now the screen also shows other stuff, RPM, IAC and so on. I was always wondering what was being referenced and where to find it. Simple, it is shown on the hand held. Wish they would explain where to look for the ECM desired timing number.
Well time to start the engine and sync the timing to the number in the hand-held. After a few attempts the motor would not start. I went back and rechecked wiring and that is not the problem. (Read next post, wiring was the problem). I looked down the throttle body and saw it was completly dry. It should have gotton something in the few seconds that the key first comes on and turned the fuel pump on but it was not. So grabbed a can of brake cleaner, open up the throttle plates and shot a little juice in the intake. Hit the key again and it lit right off. Just need some prime fuel I guess.
Well it immediately went to 2200 RPM and stayed there. I remembered thinking the throttle plates looked open way to far from the factory so with engine running, turned the idle screw to adjust to 2000 RPM. Now I held the timing light at the balancer and turned the distributor until I had 15 degrees, exactly what was shown in the hand-held. Tightened down the distributor lock nut and then reduced the idle speed by turning the idle screw. It went down to about 950 and was getting happy.
Let the motor come up to temp and monitored when the fans came on. Needed to adjust that part.
Shut the engine off. Turned the key back on, now did some adjustments with the hand-held. First was to do a TPS re-set because I had moved the idle screw. All done and green light.
I set the fan on/off temps, set a target AFR, 14.1 for now, cruise 15.0, WOT 12.5 which looks like a defaut seting so left it alone. Now these may have to be adjusted slightly once there is more learning.
I snapped the throttle a couple of times and it was not very crisp. So I went to the Acceleration and upped the number a little at a time until ist responded better. May have to adjust again when engine is under a load to make it better but now it does not stumble. May have to go back and un-adjust once the idle /IAC is correct.
So far everything is looking fine. I do have to make some adjutment for idle because the IAC shows Zero at idle and the manual says it should be between 2 and 10. Looks like an easy adjustment.
My only other concern is It will not do a Fuel Prime to start the engine. I noted the fuel prime number in the hand held was extremely low. I set it at 625 just to see what would happen. Nothing. (Got the wife in the car and had her turn the key a few times while I watched looking down the throttle to see if any fuel was being released. None.. Engine is up to temp so I thought maybe it might be CTS table doing something. I did not fool with that however, need the laptop. Just to prove my point that it was not getting the shot it needed to start I gave it a little shot of brake cleaner and it fired right up. So I have some investigating to do. Could have something to do with the idle and IAC not being set correctly, don't know. Will have to read up on it to see what is going on.
Any changes I do I turn the engine off, if running, and then turn key back on. I am trying to ensure that what ever I do is saved to the ECM.
As with anything, I need to get a few adjustments right and it should be fine. As an additional note, at idle, if you change the spark-idle (figure 56, page 28) you can absolutly see the difference in the engine either in RPM change or the exhaust. Very cool.
Well thats it for now. Wanted to share my first start-up and things I needed to do to get to an idle. Like I said the IAC is not correct and so will need to adjust that first along with idle, do the TPS reset and then attack the no-prime issue if it still exsists. When it does start, the idle is high then comes down just like it should. (Just not where I want it).
With the engine running, just for the heck of it, I turned on the A/C. Pulled the motor down a little then went right back to the idle it had before turning on the A/C. I really like that. Had to use a idle soleniod on the carburator to bump idle with A/C before.
The timing sync was very easy once I knew what I was looking for. Hope that helps a little. Been raining here a lot so won't be able to get out and drive for a while. Besides, I want it to start (without brake cleaner) and the idle-IAC correct before I go anywhere. All this is done with the hand held. Don't want to play with a lap top until I am comfortable with the results from the hand-held. I think this is a major deal that you don't need the laptop if you understand the hand-held and it is working correctly. Bit of a learning curve but the results are looking promising.
First, I followed all the wiring per the manual and instructions. The only thing I was confused with is the white wire in the EFI harness and what to do with it. Finally figured out that it is for a crank trigger which I don't have so there are two wires (loose) that I did not use, the white one and the yellow (coil only) wire. Just cut them back and taped then off.
Next rechecked all 12 volt sources by cranking over the motor and verifying 12volts everywhere where required. Just turned off the fuel pump over-ride switch so it would not energize the pump. (Read my next post, apparently I did not do a good job of this).
Next there is a sticker on the 02 connector that says not to connect until set up in the program. Well, not to worry, it is already there in the program. I verified this in the hand-held. So it can be hooked up along with the rest of the cables.
So now verify my manual over-ride for the cooling fan is working, just in case. All okay.
next turned key to start position, not trying to start but get get power to everything. The hand held lit right up. Went through the instructions of the Wizard. The turned key off and waited a few seconds, turned back on so the tune is saved in the ECM. Next turned key back on to power everything up and did the TPS set. Green light for everything at this point.
Now time for the sync thing. Well first off I am using the small cap HEI and the MSD 6AL box. (By the way, you use the "white" wire from the 6AL to the distributor). Disabling the fuel pump (via switch) and using a remote starter did not work for me for some reason. Got no strobe light to verify anything. So only other way is to start the engine. I had origionally set the initial timing at 18 degrees. Now to unconfuse things.
The hand held will show the timing that is referenced by the ECM on the screen in the "MONITOR" WINDOW. mine showed 15 degrees. Now the screen also shows other stuff, RPM, IAC and so on. I was always wondering what was being referenced and where to find it. Simple, it is shown on the hand held. Wish they would explain where to look for the ECM desired timing number.
Well time to start the engine and sync the timing to the number in the hand-held. After a few attempts the motor would not start. I went back and rechecked wiring and that is not the problem. (Read next post, wiring was the problem). I looked down the throttle body and saw it was completly dry. It should have gotton something in the few seconds that the key first comes on and turned the fuel pump on but it was not. So grabbed a can of brake cleaner, open up the throttle plates and shot a little juice in the intake. Hit the key again and it lit right off. Just need some prime fuel I guess.
Well it immediately went to 2200 RPM and stayed there. I remembered thinking the throttle plates looked open way to far from the factory so with engine running, turned the idle screw to adjust to 2000 RPM. Now I held the timing light at the balancer and turned the distributor until I had 15 degrees, exactly what was shown in the hand-held. Tightened down the distributor lock nut and then reduced the idle speed by turning the idle screw. It went down to about 950 and was getting happy.
Let the motor come up to temp and monitored when the fans came on. Needed to adjust that part.
Shut the engine off. Turned the key back on, now did some adjustments with the hand-held. First was to do a TPS re-set because I had moved the idle screw. All done and green light.
I set the fan on/off temps, set a target AFR, 14.1 for now, cruise 15.0, WOT 12.5 which looks like a defaut seting so left it alone. Now these may have to be adjusted slightly once there is more learning.
I snapped the throttle a couple of times and it was not very crisp. So I went to the Acceleration and upped the number a little at a time until ist responded better. May have to adjust again when engine is under a load to make it better but now it does not stumble. May have to go back and un-adjust once the idle /IAC is correct.
So far everything is looking fine. I do have to make some adjutment for idle because the IAC shows Zero at idle and the manual says it should be between 2 and 10. Looks like an easy adjustment.
My only other concern is It will not do a Fuel Prime to start the engine. I noted the fuel prime number in the hand held was extremely low. I set it at 625 just to see what would happen. Nothing. (Got the wife in the car and had her turn the key a few times while I watched looking down the throttle to see if any fuel was being released. None.. Engine is up to temp so I thought maybe it might be CTS table doing something. I did not fool with that however, need the laptop. Just to prove my point that it was not getting the shot it needed to start I gave it a little shot of brake cleaner and it fired right up. So I have some investigating to do. Could have something to do with the idle and IAC not being set correctly, don't know. Will have to read up on it to see what is going on.
Any changes I do I turn the engine off, if running, and then turn key back on. I am trying to ensure that what ever I do is saved to the ECM.
As with anything, I need to get a few adjustments right and it should be fine. As an additional note, at idle, if you change the spark-idle (figure 56, page 28) you can absolutly see the difference in the engine either in RPM change or the exhaust. Very cool.
Well thats it for now. Wanted to share my first start-up and things I needed to do to get to an idle. Like I said the IAC is not correct and so will need to adjust that first along with idle, do the TPS reset and then attack the no-prime issue if it still exsists. When it does start, the idle is high then comes down just like it should. (Just not where I want it).
With the engine running, just for the heck of it, I turned on the A/C. Pulled the motor down a little then went right back to the idle it had before turning on the A/C. I really like that. Had to use a idle soleniod on the carburator to bump idle with A/C before.
The timing sync was very easy once I knew what I was looking for. Hope that helps a little. Been raining here a lot so won't be able to get out and drive for a while. Besides, I want it to start (without brake cleaner) and the idle-IAC correct before I go anywhere. All this is done with the hand held. Don't want to play with a lap top until I am comfortable with the results from the hand-held. I think this is a major deal that you don't need the laptop if you understand the hand-held and it is working correctly. Bit of a learning curve but the results are looking promising.
Last edited by condor7; 08-30-2015 at 02:17 PM.
08-30-2015, 02:07 PM
#44
Another update, perhaps more important than anything else. I mentioned in my last post about not getting a fuel prime. Well I have fixed the problem and also fixed another issue concerning the idle.
First, the hand held is your friend, and second don't panic over anything.
I went and re-read the instructions. My timing was done correctly so no problem there. I tried to start the engine and no start. Nothing from the exhaust, no smell nothing. So grabbed the hand held, referenced page 24 paragraph 23.O and cranked it over. Well sure enough the monitor RPM parameter did not change to "SNC" signal. Well a hundred things went through my head from a bad control mod on the distributor to you name it.
I rechecked the wiring, had 12 volts switched at the appropriate points. Only two areas that could now be an issue, the MSD or the ECM. Turns out both. Let me explain, I had 12 volts switched with the key on. When I checked for 12 volts when cranking the motor I had nothing. This indicated I had both wired to an incorrect source for constant 12 volts when key is on and while cranking the starter. Once I fixed that, I went and reduced the prime enrichment down to 250 as a starting point. Well low and behold, once the wiring is correct it started right up and went to work.
One issue solved. I truely wish they would be more intent on telling you the red/white stripped wire MUST have 12 volts switched AND cranking voltage. Maybe put it in bold. In Holley's defense, it does say that I just overlooked it. Not paying attention.
Now for the idle issue. I could not get the idle to come down to where I set it in the hand held, to make things more interesting, the IAC was at Zero with the idle screw backed all the way out. The manual says it should be between 2-10. Page 25.
This idicated to me one of two things, a vacuum leak or the throttle blades on the secondary side were open to much and not letting the IAC control idle. No vacuum leaks. Looked at the seconcary blades in reference to the primary blades (now full in the closed position) and sure enough the secondaries are open about 20 to 30 thousands. When the secondaries are open they are letting in air so they are infact controlling the idle. (These are lessons I learned a long time ago from tuning Holley carburators. The TBI is sort of the same for controlling air except the IAC should be doing the work.)
You asked a while back why I bought the Holley adjustable linkage. This is the reason. The primaries and secondaries are not working as one. Turning the idle adjustment screw only affected the primary blades until they were open enough to start the secondary blades moving. I really don't like bending a wire link to try and get both in tandem thus the adjustable linkage. First see why the secondary blades are not closing. They are hitting against the stop screw. This is a little screw that sits right below the MAF on the side where the throttle linkage connects. I simply backed out the set screw until the secondary blades were completly closed. Set/adjusted the adjustable linkage with the idle scew (big one on main linkage) was just touching (starting to open) the primary blades. Now both the primary and secondary blades are closed, any adjustment to the idle screw from here adjusts both primary and secondary blades the same.
Turned (closck-wise) the idle screw to open the blades a little and did a TPS reset. Engine started right up. I was already at temp (over 160 degrees) so rechecked what I set for the idle and then refered to the had held from here on out. RPM's showed higher than what I wanted but now I had IAC reading. I adjusted the idle screw to the RPM I wanted and watched the IAC counter. It moved as well. Adjusted the idle screw so that I had 5-6 counts on the IAC and let the ECM do the rest. Cracked the throttle open a couple of times (not wide open) and the engine setteled down to exactly where it was supposed to with the IAC count right where it needed to be.
So a couple of lessons here to share with you. My throttle blades were open WAY to much, were not working in tandum, and the set screw for the secondary blades was in to far not letting the secondary blades close up to where they needed to be.
Check voltage at the switched source you are using to make sure there is 12 Starting Volts as well. For me this was a self inflicted wound. Minor thank goodness.
Would love to take it out now but of course this is Florida and it is raining. I really do not antiscipate any more issues at this point. Perhaps some minor adjustments with the hand held if needed once a base table has been learned. Will have to see how it handles under a load. Now that I have all my mistakes and the TBI itself corrected can't wait to put some miles on it.
Just wanted to let you know what I ran into and hopefully you won't make the same error.
I know others are watching this tread so I will continue to update after I get a chance to drive it. So far I am happy with everything. It is NOT a bolt on and go as the advertisements would lead you to believe. Take your time, read the instructions and highlight all the critical stuff, follow step by step and you'll be up and running. This is not intimidating, you just have to understand what is taking place. By the way, I downloaded the Holley V2 software. After I got my mistakes corrected and the engine running well I hooked up the laptop. No message of needing to update firmware so it's all good. I will not do anything else with the laptop until I have put miles on the car and I have read and re-read the 22 page manual that I downloaded. It deals mostly with automatic transmission, Nitrous, drive by wire, traction control and stuff, none of which I have. I want to see the fuel tables and data log review for the most part.
Sorry this is so long.
First, the hand held is your friend, and second don't panic over anything.
I went and re-read the instructions. My timing was done correctly so no problem there. I tried to start the engine and no start. Nothing from the exhaust, no smell nothing. So grabbed the hand held, referenced page 24 paragraph 23.O and cranked it over. Well sure enough the monitor RPM parameter did not change to "SNC" signal. Well a hundred things went through my head from a bad control mod on the distributor to you name it.
I rechecked the wiring, had 12 volts switched at the appropriate points. Only two areas that could now be an issue, the MSD or the ECM. Turns out both. Let me explain, I had 12 volts switched with the key on. When I checked for 12 volts when cranking the motor I had nothing. This indicated I had both wired to an incorrect source for constant 12 volts when key is on and while cranking the starter. Once I fixed that, I went and reduced the prime enrichment down to 250 as a starting point. Well low and behold, once the wiring is correct it started right up and went to work.
One issue solved. I truely wish they would be more intent on telling you the red/white stripped wire MUST have 12 volts switched AND cranking voltage. Maybe put it in bold. In Holley's defense, it does say that I just overlooked it. Not paying attention.Now for the idle issue. I could not get the idle to come down to where I set it in the hand held, to make things more interesting, the IAC was at Zero with the idle screw backed all the way out. The manual says it should be between 2-10. Page 25.
This idicated to me one of two things, a vacuum leak or the throttle blades on the secondary side were open to much and not letting the IAC control idle. No vacuum leaks. Looked at the seconcary blades in reference to the primary blades (now full in the closed position) and sure enough the secondaries are open about 20 to 30 thousands. When the secondaries are open they are letting in air so they are infact controlling the idle. (These are lessons I learned a long time ago from tuning Holley carburators. The TBI is sort of the same for controlling air except the IAC should be doing the work.)
You asked a while back why I bought the Holley adjustable linkage. This is the reason. The primaries and secondaries are not working as one. Turning the idle adjustment screw only affected the primary blades until they were open enough to start the secondary blades moving. I really don't like bending a wire link to try and get both in tandem thus the adjustable linkage. First see why the secondary blades are not closing. They are hitting against the stop screw. This is a little screw that sits right below the MAF on the side where the throttle linkage connects. I simply backed out the set screw until the secondary blades were completly closed. Set/adjusted the adjustable linkage with the idle scew (big one on main linkage) was just touching (starting to open) the primary blades. Now both the primary and secondary blades are closed, any adjustment to the idle screw from here adjusts both primary and secondary blades the same.
Turned (closck-wise) the idle screw to open the blades a little and did a TPS reset. Engine started right up. I was already at temp (over 160 degrees) so rechecked what I set for the idle and then refered to the had held from here on out. RPM's showed higher than what I wanted but now I had IAC reading. I adjusted the idle screw to the RPM I wanted and watched the IAC counter. It moved as well. Adjusted the idle screw so that I had 5-6 counts on the IAC and let the ECM do the rest. Cracked the throttle open a couple of times (not wide open) and the engine setteled down to exactly where it was supposed to with the IAC count right where it needed to be.
So a couple of lessons here to share with you. My throttle blades were open WAY to much, were not working in tandum, and the set screw for the secondary blades was in to far not letting the secondary blades close up to where they needed to be.
Check voltage at the switched source you are using to make sure there is 12 Starting Volts as well. For me this was a self inflicted wound. Minor thank goodness.
Would love to take it out now but of course this is Florida and it is raining. I really do not antiscipate any more issues at this point. Perhaps some minor adjustments with the hand held if needed once a base table has been learned. Will have to see how it handles under a load. Now that I have all my mistakes and the TBI itself corrected can't wait to put some miles on it.
Just wanted to let you know what I ran into and hopefully you won't make the same error.
I know others are watching this tread so I will continue to update after I get a chance to drive it. So far I am happy with everything. It is NOT a bolt on and go as the advertisements would lead you to believe. Take your time, read the instructions and highlight all the critical stuff, follow step by step and you'll be up and running. This is not intimidating, you just have to understand what is taking place. By the way, I downloaded the Holley V2 software. After I got my mistakes corrected and the engine running well I hooked up the laptop. No message of needing to update firmware so it's all good. I will not do anything else with the laptop until I have put miles on the car and I have read and re-read the 22 page manual that I downloaded. It deals mostly with automatic transmission, Nitrous, drive by wire, traction control and stuff, none of which I have. I want to see the fuel tables and data log review for the most part.
Sorry this is so long.
Last edited by condor7; 08-30-2015 at 02:20 PM.
08-30-2015, 05:56 PM
#45
I had the same problem as you with my Holley Terminator EFI.
There is a "trick" to the "setup" of when you go through the initial settings. It's so easy you'll feel stupid after you figure it out. I know I did.
I just couldn't remember what it was, you'll have to experiment with the settings. I'll see if I can dig up my notes because I think wrote it down somewhere.
But it was the same thing, no spark whatsoever, the instructions aren't clear and abit misleading.
It has something to do with the spark settings, I remember that much. Edit-*even though you don't have it hooked directly to the spark for now, the settings still need to be correct*
There is a "trick" to the "setup" of when you go through the initial settings. It's so easy you'll feel stupid after you figure it out. I know I did.
I just couldn't remember what it was, you'll have to experiment with the settings. I'll see if I can dig up my notes because I think wrote it down somewhere.
But it was the same thing, no spark whatsoever, the instructions aren't clear and abit misleading.
It has something to do with the spark settings, I remember that much. Edit-*even though you don't have it hooked directly to the spark for now, the settings still need to be correct*
Last edited by htown81vette; 08-30-2015 at 05:59 PM.
08-31-2015, 02:46 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Alright Bob,
Thanks for the update. Lovely, you got it up and running !! it's giving me a bit more confidence
Still have to mount the gas tank and order fuel lines.
You should have checked my wiring diagram for the red/white
I concentrated on the Dakota digital first. Yesterday i finished the wiring and interior reinstall, everythings working. The blower motor isn't functioning right (only medium and high speed) so I gave up last night. I did the ACDelete cover install and had to lengthen resistor wires. Hopefully I just switched the connectors in the pigtail, but still I'll need to uninstall a lot of the Terminator harness just to get to it.
At work now but I'll reread your post tonight it sure has valuable info in it to check and to take into account during first start !
Hope the hurricane passes you by?!
Nick
Thanks for the update. Lovely, you got it up and running !! it's giving me a bit more confidence
Still have to mount the gas tank and order fuel lines. You should have checked my wiring diagram for the red/white
I concentrated on the Dakota digital first. Yesterday i finished the wiring and interior reinstall, everythings working. The blower motor isn't functioning right (only medium and high speed) so I gave up last night. I did the ACDelete cover install and had to lengthen resistor wires. Hopefully I just switched the connectors in the pigtail, but still I'll need to uninstall a lot of the Terminator harness just to get to it.
At work now but I'll reread your post tonight it sure has valuable info in it to check and to take into account during first start !
Hope the hurricane passes you by?!
Nick
08-31-2015, 11:07 AM
#47
Hello Nick, Just waiting for the rain to stop. Getting lots of it. As htown81vette has stated, I felt a little dumb after finding my errors. Was not the unit just the operator.
Looks like the other unit we were looking at is getting good reviews. That's good news. Glad when things work out for the whole Corvette community. Gives us more options. Right now I am satisfied with my decision to go with the Terminator. Will update if this rain will ever stop.
Looks like the other unit we were looking at is getting good reviews. That's good news. Glad when things work out for the whole Corvette community. Gives us more options. Right now I am satisfied with my decision to go with the Terminator. Will update if this rain will ever stop.
08-31-2015, 02:18 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I think I'll reinstall the distributor with the balancer at 15°
Yes, seems like Ken left his wisdom at Retrotek and the fitech is not a Powerjection copy. I'm glad it's turning out well for the guys who took the plunge.
Got my blower sorted, woohoo. Turned out I did switch two terminals in the pig tail.
Next weekend I'l. Be installing the fuel tank, ... At last. I ordered new plug wires, coil and GM module. I just didn't like how i needed to route the DUI wires as seen in the pictures above.
For those intersted, the gauges :
The wiring took some time to get it organised, the control module is stuck to the heater core housing.
Yes, seems like Ken left his wisdom at Retrotek and the fitech is not a Powerjection copy. I'm glad it's turning out well for the guys who took the plunge.
Got my blower sorted, woohoo. Turned out I did switch two terminals in the pig tail.
Next weekend I'l. Be installing the fuel tank, ... At last. I ordered new plug wires, coil and GM module. I just didn't like how i needed to route the DUI wires as seen in the pictures above.
For those intersted, the gauges :
The wiring took some time to get it organised, the control module is stuck to the heater core housing.
Last edited by dembo; 08-31-2015 at 02:29 PM.
09-05-2015, 12:27 PM
#49
The Little Mouse that Roared
Hello Nick, Hope all is well and you are making progress with the Vette. The gauges look awesome!! Glad to hear you got the wiring issue sorted out and now have a blower motor.
Got an opportunity to get the car out on the road and drove it for 17 miles. All I can say is WOW. Like so many others that have made the switch to EFI on a GEN 1 motor, it really wakes up the motor.
I am just taking it easy so it will learn the base table. At the first couple of stops the motor RPM went down almost like a stall then went right back to idle. Did this two or three times coming from about a 45MPH speed. Not a quick stop just normal like a stop sign. After that I guess it learned because it does not do it anymore.
Went out on one of our highways and let it cruise at 65 then 70 for a while. Motor just purring away. Temp is great, idle is fine acceration is learning very nicely. Did not do a WOT but did do a part throttle a couple of times for a few seconds up to about 4K RPM. It was spooky how responsive the motor now is. I thought I had the carb set up nice, no comparison. Going from 60 to 70-75 I barely moved the gas pedal. Another happy note, it got there quick.
I did set the fuel prime enrichment to 200 from 250 just to see what would happen. I had not started the car in a week. I just reached in and turned the key, waited for the fuel pump to prime, then hit the starter, fired right up and went to work. Never touched anything else.
Let it get to temp because I wanted to monitor some stuff on the hand held. Learning went to work right at 160 degrees just like it is supposed to. Then out for the first drive. Did not know what to expect so was keeping my fingers crossed. Well did not need to. The Terminator did exactly what it was supposed to do. I know there is more driving and learning to but the initial drive was very nice. You can tell when it is learning, sort of. It will respond a little different each time, very suttle however.
I will add I also performed the steps in paragraph 27.0 SELF-TUNING on page 25 before I drove it and I think that helped a great deal for it to learn. I was a little concerned that at first following the instructions, the car may react bad while driving and trying to learn stuff. So what I did while in the garage, is exactly what the instructions said, bring the idle up to 2500 RPM, 500 RPM at a time so it would learn a little prior to driving. Now the RPM did fluxuate quite a bit while trying to hold it at 2000 and then 2500. I only held it there for about a minute or so. I was not happy about the way it acted but resisted the urge to start trying more adjustments. After all it was learning, trying to adjust something while it was learning was just going to complicate matters. I am so glad I did NOT make any changes, just go drive it. Very well manored.
I shot a video clip of the start up after sitting for a week. I said in the vid that I adjusted the fuel enrichment, no so, I ment to say fuel prime. I was thinking I really did not need that much. I may even reduce it a little more later but for now with my set up 200 seems to work just fine.
I'll have to figure out a different way to upload the video. Not able to do it just now. Oh yah, only 17 miles because it started raining again. I'm in NE Florida and seems like we are catching up on all the rain we did not get eariler in the year. Gosh I really want to go driving more, just not in the rain.
Got an opportunity to get the car out on the road and drove it for 17 miles. All I can say is WOW. Like so many others that have made the switch to EFI on a GEN 1 motor, it really wakes up the motor.
I am just taking it easy so it will learn the base table. At the first couple of stops the motor RPM went down almost like a stall then went right back to idle. Did this two or three times coming from about a 45MPH speed. Not a quick stop just normal like a stop sign. After that I guess it learned because it does not do it anymore.
Went out on one of our highways and let it cruise at 65 then 70 for a while. Motor just purring away. Temp is great, idle is fine acceration is learning very nicely. Did not do a WOT but did do a part throttle a couple of times for a few seconds up to about 4K RPM. It was spooky how responsive the motor now is. I thought I had the carb set up nice, no comparison. Going from 60 to 70-75 I barely moved the gas pedal. Another happy note, it got there quick.
I did set the fuel prime enrichment to 200 from 250 just to see what would happen. I had not started the car in a week. I just reached in and turned the key, waited for the fuel pump to prime, then hit the starter, fired right up and went to work. Never touched anything else.
Let it get to temp because I wanted to monitor some stuff on the hand held. Learning went to work right at 160 degrees just like it is supposed to. Then out for the first drive. Did not know what to expect so was keeping my fingers crossed. Well did not need to. The Terminator did exactly what it was supposed to do. I know there is more driving and learning to but the initial drive was very nice. You can tell when it is learning, sort of. It will respond a little different each time, very suttle however.
I will add I also performed the steps in paragraph 27.0 SELF-TUNING on page 25 before I drove it and I think that helped a great deal for it to learn. I was a little concerned that at first following the instructions, the car may react bad while driving and trying to learn stuff. So what I did while in the garage, is exactly what the instructions said, bring the idle up to 2500 RPM, 500 RPM at a time so it would learn a little prior to driving. Now the RPM did fluxuate quite a bit while trying to hold it at 2000 and then 2500. I only held it there for about a minute or so. I was not happy about the way it acted but resisted the urge to start trying more adjustments. After all it was learning, trying to adjust something while it was learning was just going to complicate matters. I am so glad I did NOT make any changes, just go drive it. Very well manored.
I shot a video clip of the start up after sitting for a week. I said in the vid that I adjusted the fuel enrichment, no so, I ment to say fuel prime. I was thinking I really did not need that much. I may even reduce it a little more later but for now with my set up 200 seems to work just fine.
I'll have to figure out a different way to upload the video. Not able to do it just now. Oh yah, only 17 miles because it started raining again. I'm in NE Florida and seems like we are catching up on all the rain we did not get eariler in the year. Gosh I really want to go driving more, just not in the rain.
Last edited by condor7; 09-05-2015 at 12:33 PM.
09-06-2015, 11:38 AM
#50
Moderator/Tech Contributor
Member Since: Jun 2001
Location: Jacksonville Florida BWO Dayton, Cincinnati, Bloomsbury NJ, Cincinnati
Posts: 18,244
Received 3,822 Likes
on
2,066 Posts
2015 C7 of the Year Finalist
When do I get a ride in the terminated 68?
You are such a glutton for modding the car! I'm glad I'm not that kind of person!
This mod seems to be a rather good one! Well done old shade tree mechanic!
Elmer
You are such a glutton for modding the car! I'm glad I'm not that kind of person!
This mod seems to be a rather good one! Well done old shade tree mechanic!Elmer
09-06-2015, 02:56 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Bob, fine thank you & hope the same for you! Mast weekend I finished assembling the interior and this weekend I installed a differnt coil, GM ign. module, new spark plugs and wires, set the nr.1 to about 15°, wired the fuel pump relay kit with inertia switch and cleaned up some loose ends. So next week I hope to reinstall the tank so I can order my fuel hoses. I'll be done mid winter lol.
So good to hear you are not experiencing major issues and it's starting to run better and better. You are giving me valuable info with each post hopefully my startup will be as succesfull as yours.
Can't wait to see the video. If you create a youtube account you can directly link it in here by using "[yt ] the code here [/yt ]" without the spaces and "
Regards,
Nick
So good to hear you are not experiencing major issues and it's starting to run better and better. You are giving me valuable info with each post hopefully my startup will be as succesfull as yours.
Can't wait to see the video. If you create a youtube account you can directly link it in here by using "[yt ] the code here [/yt ]" without the spaces and "
Regards,
Nick
09-07-2015, 09:03 AM
#52
Bob, fine thank you & hope the same for you! Mast weekend I finished assembling the interior and this weekend I installed a differnt coil, GM ign. module, new spark plugs and wires, set the nr.1 to about 15°, wired the fuel pump relay kit with inertia switch and cleaned up some loose ends. So next week I hope to reinstall the tank so I can order my fuel hoses. I'll be done mid winter lol.
So good to hear you are not experiencing major issues and it's starting to run better and better. You are giving me valuable info with each post hopefully my startup will be as succesfull as yours.
Can't wait to see the video. If you create a youtube account you can directly link it in here by using "[yt ] the code here [/yt ]" without the spaces and "
Regards,
Nick
So good to hear you are not experiencing major issues and it's starting to run better and better. You are giving me valuable info with each post hopefully my startup will be as succesfull as yours.
Can't wait to see the video. If you create a youtube account you can directly link it in here by using "[yt ] the code here [/yt ]" without the spaces and "
Regards,
Nick
I do have a you tube account and finally got the short video's made. Two things I read on another forum that might be of help to you. One, a guy also put a new fuel tank in his vehicle. I think it was the Vintage Mustang Forum (VMF). He had all sorts of issues but came to find our he did not have enough fuel in his tank. He only put 3-4 gallons in and tried to drive it. Well the fuel pump lost the fuel pick-up while turning and he thought he had other issues. I know it seems kind of silly but he just added more fuel and the issues went away. Not sure how your tank is baffled so might want to keep that in mind. Also there was lots of discussion about what size alternator to use because of concern of amps. I have almost everything electric on my car now except for raising and lowering the headlights. I don't have a massive radio or amp box. Everything I run electric is through relays including the seat motors. I am using a 105 amp alternator. It keeps up with everything just fine, keeps the battery at a nice 14.2 with engine running. Now I suppose if I were to try and operate everything all at once I may have a shortage of amps but who does that?? I think the real key is a sound battery. Right now I am using a Energizer battery from Walmart. Don't laugh It has served me well, I just keep the battery tender on it after driving. Now my next battery will be an AGM type. Not decided on the brand. AGM's provide more energy and are gel cell if I am reading everything right. I have done some research on them and it is interesting to note that the battery I am thinking of is sold at Sears but the same thing is sold at Sams at 50% less the cost. The batteries are identical in every way except the labels. Go figure. After all there are only so many battery manufactures. Here are the short video's. I say in the cold start one that I reduced the "acell enrichment". I ment to say the "fuel prime". My bad.
Last edited by condor7; 09-07-2015 at 09:07 AM.
09-07-2015, 03:28 PM
#54
Hello Nick. Well just put another 53 miles on the car. Have a total of 70 on the system now. This time out did a lot of stop and go type driving and had the A/C on the whole time. Did go out on the highway and up and over a large bridge (we have several here but this one was built so cruise ships could go under it). I am happy to report that the car handles just great. I pulled the bridge in 5th gear without a hic-up. Barely had to get in the throttle to maintain the 65 MPH speed. I am really getting very happy with this Terminator.
I am convinced that taking the time to make sure everything is correct, especially the throttle blades I have spoke of, is the key to having a good running system.
I downloaded the tune that is in it now just to look at fuel graphs an such. My fuel graph is nice and smooth. I will not make any adjustments to anythig until I have more miles on it. I will use the hand held to adjust the Fuel Learn, page 27 paragraph 30.2, to slow instead of fast. I looked at te fuel tables and everything is now populated so I think it will be safe to slow the learn down. I will still keep it active untill I have at least 200 or so miles on it.
So far, so good. Even had the wife out with me this time. I am so glad the car behaved while she was in it. (helps me to justify spending money on the mistress :-).)
I hope you have the success I am having. It is an absolute joy to drive. I opened up the throttle a couple of times to 3500-4000 RPM, you know just so the fuel table would learn, it sounds like a big block with a big ole 4 barrel on it. The thing sounds like a whole room full of vacuum cleaners turning on. Fantastic.
I have not had the vacuum hooked up to the regulator just yet. I'm still trying to figure out if I really need it or not. After I get more miles on it I'll hook it up and see if there is a difference.
Hope your project is coming along nicely.
Bob
I am convinced that taking the time to make sure everything is correct, especially the throttle blades I have spoke of, is the key to having a good running system.
I downloaded the tune that is in it now just to look at fuel graphs an such. My fuel graph is nice and smooth. I will not make any adjustments to anythig until I have more miles on it. I will use the hand held to adjust the Fuel Learn, page 27 paragraph 30.2, to slow instead of fast. I looked at te fuel tables and everything is now populated so I think it will be safe to slow the learn down. I will still keep it active untill I have at least 200 or so miles on it.
So far, so good. Even had the wife out with me this time. I am so glad the car behaved while she was in it. (helps me to justify spending money on the mistress :-).)
I hope you have the success I am having. It is an absolute joy to drive. I opened up the throttle a couple of times to 3500-4000 RPM, you know just so the fuel table would learn
, it sounds like a big block with a big ole 4 barrel on it. The thing sounds like a whole room full of vacuum cleaners turning on. Fantastic.I have not had the vacuum hooked up to the regulator just yet. I'm still trying to figure out if I really need it or not. After I get more miles on it I'll hook it up and see if there is a difference.
Hope your project is coming along nicely.
Bob
The following users liked this post:
dembo (09-11-2015)
09-11-2015, 03:12 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hey Bob, sorry been busy with work lately. It sounds really great in the videos and I especially like the rock steady block at idle. Mine with the carb was all over the place giving you a indication how well the mechanics over here can tune a carb/ignition.
I'm going to bite the bullit this weekend and test my fuel tank externally just to see if I have leaks. Not looking forward to filling it, hook up a battery, spray the garden with fuel and then drain it again but I guess it's still easier then installing it and then possibly have to take it out again because of leaks. I had to do some rewiring as some of the grounds didn't make it to the battery post (my mistake measure twice then cut instead of humm ok it will be long enough and 'snip' ) After correction I got around to install the fuel pump harness and inertia switch in the right rear compartment. Took the inertia switch in the Ram pickup for a week driving over some bad roads and it never tripped so I guess it will be fine in there.
I've got a red top optima. I can't say I had bad luck with it and it gives me 2 side and 2 top posts. With all the extra wiring and terminals it was really needed. I'll see how it behaves with all the new constant power lines connected to it. I used to disconnect everything after a drive.
Let's hope the tank works out fine then I'll probably have my fuel lines next week and it's startup time.
My technical inspection is due next week as well but wont make it so I'll be sponsoring them as well with fines
Regards,
Nick
I'm going to bite the bullit this weekend and test my fuel tank externally just to see if I have leaks. Not looking forward to filling it, hook up a battery, spray the garden with fuel and then drain it again but I guess it's still easier then installing it and then possibly have to take it out again because of leaks. I had to do some rewiring as some of the grounds didn't make it to the battery post (my mistake measure twice then cut instead of humm ok it will be long enough and 'snip' ) After correction I got around to install the fuel pump harness and inertia switch in the right rear compartment. Took the inertia switch in the Ram pickup for a week driving over some bad roads and it never tripped so I guess it will be fine in there.
I've got a red top optima. I can't say I had bad luck with it and it gives me 2 side and 2 top posts. With all the extra wiring and terminals it was really needed. I'll see how it behaves with all the new constant power lines connected to it. I used to disconnect everything after a drive.
Let's hope the tank works out fine then I'll probably have my fuel lines next week and it's startup time.
My technical inspection is due next week as well but wont make it so I'll be sponsoring them as well with fines
Regards,
Nick
09-20-2015, 09:37 AM
#56
Hello Nick. You should just about be ready to fire it up, right? Just kidding. I know there is lots to do on a project car before all is right.
Well did some more reading on the issue of connecting the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. It seems that this is a smart thing to do. So I did it and took the car out to see if there was any difference. I put 44 more mile on it in various conditions.
I could tell immediately that the throttle response was better and the engine just seemed happier with the vacuum hooked up. I used a manifold vacuum source from the TBI as shown by the instruction manual. The motor did kind of go low idle at a stop sign a few times then picked right up. Only did this coming to a stop. After several stops it stopped and now is happy.
I played with the software some more, just looking and resisting the urge to make a change. I copied what is in the ECM now and used that to look at. I know have a better understanding of ther "base fuel table" and the "learned fuel table". It is really cool how you can load the learn fuel table to the base table, then smooth out the graph, look for any spikes or dips in the graph, and smooth them out. Then you can just upload that to the ECM when done. Again, I have not done any uploading, just learning how to use it. Will put some more miles on it then adjust the Learned Compensation Limits percent down to 2-5% in the idle area like the Holley forum (Danny) suggests to do.
I did use the hand held and save the current fuel table (they call it global folder) giving it a name and date. This is so if something goes south, I can just reload the folder that I know works and get down the road. The hand held will always be in the car.
Side note; lots of discussion on fuel tank venting. I only have the vented fuel cap on my tank. The factory one. It allows air in but not out. So far I do not have any pressure build up issues. It would probably be wise to get some sort of venting pressure out using the small outlet at the upper passenger side of my fuel tank but for now it is very happy. Incidently I have been running an electric fuel pump with a returen line for a long time even with the carburator. I never had an issue with too much pressure building up in the tank.
Total of 114 miles on the car. Still very happy with the way it is going. Need to download the ECM again and see what the difference is now that I have the vacuum hooked up to the regulator. No wide open throttle just yet but making it up to 4K on a few shifts is nothing but pure fun. Also fuel setting at just above 3/4 tank with all this playing around. I think mileage will be just fine after it gets through the learning cycle and I quit playing and drive like a normal person. (Well as normal as a Corvette person can be). 
Let us know how you are coming along.
Well did some more reading on the issue of connecting the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. It seems that this is a smart thing to do. So I did it and took the car out to see if there was any difference. I put 44 more mile on it in various conditions.
I could tell immediately that the throttle response was better and the engine just seemed happier with the vacuum hooked up. I used a manifold vacuum source from the TBI as shown by the instruction manual. The motor did kind of go low idle at a stop sign a few times then picked right up. Only did this coming to a stop. After several stops it stopped and now is happy.
I played with the software some more, just looking and resisting the urge to make a change. I copied what is in the ECM now and used that to look at. I know have a better understanding of ther "base fuel table" and the "learned fuel table". It is really cool how you can load the learn fuel table to the base table, then smooth out the graph, look for any spikes or dips in the graph, and smooth them out. Then you can just upload that to the ECM when done. Again, I have not done any uploading, just learning how to use it. Will put some more miles on it then adjust the Learned Compensation Limits percent down to 2-5% in the idle area like the Holley forum (Danny) suggests to do.
I did use the hand held and save the current fuel table (they call it global folder) giving it a name and date. This is so if something goes south, I can just reload the folder that I know works and get down the road. The hand held will always be in the car.
Side note; lots of discussion on fuel tank venting. I only have the vented fuel cap on my tank. The factory one. It allows air in but not out. So far I do not have any pressure build up issues. It would probably be wise to get some sort of venting pressure out using the small outlet at the upper passenger side of my fuel tank but for now it is very happy. Incidently I have been running an electric fuel pump with a returen line for a long time even with the carburator. I never had an issue with too much pressure building up in the tank.
Total of 114 miles on the car. Still very happy with the way it is going. Need to download the ECM again and see what the difference is now that I have the vacuum hooked up to the regulator. No wide open throttle just yet but making it up to 4K on a few shifts is nothing but pure fun.
Also fuel setting at just above 3/4 tank with all this playing around. I think mileage will be just fine after it gets through the learning cycle and I quit playing and drive like a normal person. (Well as normal as a Corvette person can be). Let us know how you are coming along.
09-20-2015, 01:18 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Bob, hope all is well?
Sorry about the lack of update. Seems you got it runnin pretty well. Did you put some more miles on it?
Today would have been startup day. Got my fuel hoses and gas tank back in, corrected a misrake in the wiring (I ran a direct - wire to the fuel pump : bad idea and can't understand why I didn't think it through)
I did the first key on and have the calibration loaded with the stock camshaft selected as I only have 212° on the intake. According to the Holley forum the intake is the reference. Did the tps set. Second key on : the pump primes and have 54psi which is about correct for the C5 regulator.
Startup is getting close lets put the mufflers back on
Left went ok then I was wrenching on the right on.... I slipped of the clamp bolt head at full force ans smashed it on my nose lots of blood but everything felt ok untill my wife came in lol of to emergency services,.. Broken in two places
So I thnik I'll stop for today
Nick
Sorry about the lack of update. Seems you got it runnin pretty well. Did you put some more miles on it?
Today would have been startup day. Got my fuel hoses and gas tank back in, corrected a misrake in the wiring (I ran a direct - wire to the fuel pump : bad idea and can't understand why I didn't think it through)
I did the first key on and have the calibration loaded with the stock camshaft selected as I only have 212° on the intake. According to the Holley forum the intake is the reference. Did the tps set. Second key on : the pump primes and have 54psi which is about correct for the C5 regulator.
Startup is getting close lets put the mufflers back on
Left went ok then I was wrenching on the right on.... I slipped of the clamp bolt head at full force ans smashed it on my nose lots of blood but everything felt ok untill my wife came in lol of to emergency services,.. Broken in two places
So I thnik I'll stop for today
Nick
09-21-2015, 09:24 AM
#58
Hello Nick. Say what?? You broke your nose?? I have done a lot of stuff working on the Mistress, busted knuckles, scratches, cuts, scrapes, black eye, burns, but I don't think I ever broke anything. If I do bleed I get rid of the evidence so my wife does not see it. She turns into a doctor of sorts if she see's me bloody, thinks stitches are needed for everything. Sorry to hear of your mishap. That will certainly let the air out of the tires for a while. Hope you are feeling okay.Sounds like you are almost ready to make smoke. I hope it does as well as mine is doing. Remember, the hand held is your friend. It is a good monitor of stuff once the engine is running. I'm sure you will be fine. Let us know how it does. If things are not quite right let us know, I'll share anything I have done with you to help. Part of my background is 10 years engine building and installing. Worked on lots of stuff especially diagnosis of check engine lights and so on. Put a lot of time on scanner trouble shooting. That is why I say the hand held is your friend, closest thing to having a scanner hooked up. I did hook up the laptop and wow, you get tons of info on the system. Really cool when in the "gauges" area. This of course is for more precise tuning which I am not ready to do yet. I still want to drive more and let the system do the self-learn for now. Take care. Bob
09-27-2015, 10:52 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Bob, hey
Well the nose had two fractures, had it put straight on tuesday. Now I just have to be carefull for a couple of weeks.
About the Terminator.
The good :
I fired it up today and it started immediatly, but on a very high idle. The first thing I did was to get it revving at 2000 rpm, monitored the requested timing and with a timing light I matched it on the balancer.
Then got the idle down as much as I could with was at about 1100 rpm. The screw came out pretty far. (Engine was at operating temp already). Switched it of and did a tps reset. Fired up immediatly but still high idle. Tps at 0% but iac at 0% as well so I moved on to the secondary screw and started backing it out CCW as the manual instructs until I started to get a iac reading which I did and got it above 2%. At idle it's still fluctuating but doesn't go below 2 or above 10%. So tps at 0 iac at 3-5. When reving the engine or when putting it into drive I see the iac taking over. When it returns to idle from reving it does go back to the requested 750rpm
In the mean time I checked and rechecked if timing matched the handheld which it does. Then I reved and held the rpm at different positions up to 2500 rpm as per manual.
The learning is closed loop and see it adding or subtracting fuel.
The fan came on at 185 so the terminator is triggering it correctly
No leaks (fuel, water, oil)
Time to drive, which is where the problems start.
The bad :
During prime the fuel pressure is 56psi, correct for a corvette fpr but when the engine is running I'm getting 60-63 which is on the high side and to the allowable limit for the terminator. Another thing to watch. Not much I can do but buy another fpr.
I heard a frequent thud when the engine was idling. Never heard that before and it wasn't in phase with the rpm so I assume it's not related to the driveline? (Valves, water pump, crank bearings). I hope it was the suspension settling after I lowered the car back on the ground.
After the car moved I couldn't hear it anymore, but it's something to watch
Alright, put it in reverse and back out of the garage. The idle went down but picked right up. When moving I heard pops on the left side. I thought it was the park brake binding after sitting so long but the realised the engine is popping from the exhaust, left bank only. I thought it was due to the system still learning but I doubt that's the case as I took it for a 10 mile spin.
In general, the idle is rather rough in park and in drive/reverse, the engine is visibly shacking and you feel it in the cabine.
The issue, when you are driving at a constant speed, no peddle movement, there's no popping but as soon as you touch the gas peddle it pops, either from a stand still or when accelerating. The quicker you step on it the more frequent the pops, the car is not drivable this way as you have to feather it. It even pops in reverse, without pushing the peddle but the transmission rolling the car.
The car stalled once when I stepped on it too fast.
I doubt I have a wiped lobe or if there's something wrong with the valve train as it never happened up to the point I swapped the carb with the terminator.
I assume it's ignition related as it only happens under load, not while reving the engine in neutral.
Spark plugs are new and gapped to .045 as instructed for the vortec head. New msd street fire plug wires, new small cap hei with AC Delco module, new msd street fire coil.
No wires are crossed, misnumbered or loose on the terminal.
Next weekend I'll start pulling plugs and change wires to exclude those 2.
To be continued
Nick
Well the nose had two fractures, had it put straight on tuesday. Now I just have to be carefull for a couple of weeks.
About the Terminator.
The good :
I fired it up today and it started immediatly, but on a very high idle. The first thing I did was to get it revving at 2000 rpm, monitored the requested timing and with a timing light I matched it on the balancer.
Then got the idle down as much as I could with was at about 1100 rpm. The screw came out pretty far. (Engine was at operating temp already). Switched it of and did a tps reset. Fired up immediatly but still high idle. Tps at 0% but iac at 0% as well so I moved on to the secondary screw and started backing it out CCW as the manual instructs until I started to get a iac reading which I did and got it above 2%. At idle it's still fluctuating but doesn't go below 2 or above 10%. So tps at 0 iac at 3-5. When reving the engine or when putting it into drive I see the iac taking over. When it returns to idle from reving it does go back to the requested 750rpm
In the mean time I checked and rechecked if timing matched the handheld which it does. Then I reved and held the rpm at different positions up to 2500 rpm as per manual.
The learning is closed loop and see it adding or subtracting fuel.
The fan came on at 185 so the terminator is triggering it correctly
No leaks (fuel, water, oil)
Time to drive, which is where the problems start.
The bad :
During prime the fuel pressure is 56psi, correct for a corvette fpr but when the engine is running I'm getting 60-63 which is on the high side and to the allowable limit for the terminator. Another thing to watch. Not much I can do but buy another fpr.
I heard a frequent thud when the engine was idling. Never heard that before and it wasn't in phase with the rpm so I assume it's not related to the driveline? (Valves, water pump, crank bearings). I hope it was the suspension settling after I lowered the car back on the ground.
After the car moved I couldn't hear it anymore, but it's something to watch
Alright, put it in reverse and back out of the garage. The idle went down but picked right up. When moving I heard pops on the left side. I thought it was the park brake binding after sitting so long but the realised the engine is popping from the exhaust, left bank only. I thought it was due to the system still learning but I doubt that's the case as I took it for a 10 mile spin.
In general, the idle is rather rough in park and in drive/reverse, the engine is visibly shacking and you feel it in the cabine.
The issue, when you are driving at a constant speed, no peddle movement, there's no popping but as soon as you touch the gas peddle it pops, either from a stand still or when accelerating. The quicker you step on it the more frequent the pops, the car is not drivable this way as you have to feather it. It even pops in reverse, without pushing the peddle but the transmission rolling the car.
The car stalled once when I stepped on it too fast.
I doubt I have a wiped lobe or if there's something wrong with the valve train as it never happened up to the point I swapped the carb with the terminator.
I assume it's ignition related as it only happens under load, not while reving the engine in neutral.
Spark plugs are new and gapped to .045 as instructed for the vortec head. New msd street fire plug wires, new small cap hei with AC Delco module, new msd street fire coil.
No wires are crossed, misnumbered or loose on the terminal.
Next weekend I'll start pulling plugs and change wires to exclude those 2.
To be continued
Nick
Last edited by dembo; 09-27-2015 at 02:20 PM.
09-27-2015, 01:02 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ok, I couldn't stay away from the garage. Turns out two spark plug wires are bad out of the box !! Luckely I bought two sets, one msd one GMPP. I swapped them out and low and behold. The idle is dead stable and the popping is gone
Rushed upstairs to tell my wife to share my happyness and she told me what are you still doing here then
Took it out for a drive of about one hour and a half, learning is already at 12% lol. It's silky smooth, no hesitations, no idle hunting, starts within 2 seconds, cold or hot. WOW the car never ran so smooth and I seem to be getting the power I was expecting but never got due to bad carb and ignition tuning.
Happy camper here!
The fuel pressure still bothers me : 65psi might order another fpr
Nick
Rushed upstairs to tell my wife to share my happyness and she told me what are you still doing here then
Took it out for a drive of about one hour and a half, learning is already at 12% lol. It's silky smooth, no hesitations, no idle hunting, starts within 2 seconds, cold or hot. WOW the car never ran so smooth and I seem to be getting the power I was expecting but never got due to bad carb and ignition tuning.
Happy camper here!
The fuel pressure still bothers me : 65psi might order another fpr
Nick