Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps!
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Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps!
I posted this in another thread - Alloy wheels and trivia. But the subject comes up so often from new C3 owners that I thought I would add some redundancy with a separate thread. And this matter is important to many people. So I thought I would post an example. Many will argue that it is not important for a 1979 but nevertheless it will illustrate what people are referring to when they ask, "Are the numbers matching?"
This is the number pad from the passenger side engine block on my 1979. Difficult to read so here it is: 27ZBB
19S410002
And here is the matching "410002" on the VIN. That is what matching numbers mean. It is that simple. The engine production number is matched on the body VIN. The 4 is L-82, an 8 would mean an L-48. So my car is production number 10,002 in a 1979 production run 0f 53,807. Build date was November 6, 1978 and shipping date was November 7.
PS-I do not know what the 27ZBB means.
[Modified by paul79, 6:23 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 6:24 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 6:41 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 9:40 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 9:44 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 10:06 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 10:06 PM 8/18/2002]
This is the number pad from the passenger side engine block on my 1979. Difficult to read so here it is: 27ZBB
19S410002
And here is the matching "410002" on the VIN. That is what matching numbers mean. It is that simple. The engine production number is matched on the body VIN. The 4 is L-82, an 8 would mean an L-48. So my car is production number 10,002 in a 1979 production run 0f 53,807. Build date was November 6, 1978 and shipping date was November 7.
PS-I do not know what the 27ZBB means.
[Modified by paul79, 6:23 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 6:24 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 6:41 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 9:40 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 9:44 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 10:06 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 10:06 PM 8/18/2002]
Melting Slicks
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From: Why Drive When you can ride
Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
Paul, thanks I never knew what 'numbers' matching really meant. I thought it was more cryptic then that.
:cheers:
:cheers:
Melting Slicks
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (Dwayne 76)
Paul, thanks I never knew what 'numbers' matching really meant. I thought it was more cryptic then that.
:cheers:
:cheers:
JB
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (JB)
You are absolutely right but I thought I would make a start with an example ;) . My transmission and rear-end are "correct" but my starter and alternator are not. My impression is that the motor block is the number one priority when people look for numbers.
If people wish to go further they will see the likes of this: a #1103291 distributor for a 1979 L-82. I hope that I have not opened a hornets' nest on this numbers issue. I was just trying to show newcomers to the world of Corvettes what it (numbers) means.
[Modified by paul79, 6:57 PM 8/18/2002]
If people wish to go further they will see the likes of this: a #1103291 distributor for a 1979 L-82. I hope that I have not opened a hornets' nest on this numbers issue. I was just trying to show newcomers to the world of Corvettes what it (numbers) means.
[Modified by paul79, 6:57 PM 8/18/2002]
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (sd pacecar)
Thanks! It can be difficult to see in the sunshine and the heat. But that is what I have! I have corrected the original message.
[Modified by paul79, 10:05 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 10:05 PM 8/18/2002]
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
I have a list of numbered and readily identifiable parts on my site as a good source of where to look for numbers matching and more continue to be added. Some of these are unimportant though. My heads are wrong casting, but that part is not NCRS judged as they cannot be seen. The same goes with many date codes. It is also possible to replace most numbered parts (ram's horns on early c3s). Therefore, buying a numbered matching vette is no guarantee.
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
Paul'
another great job as usual.!
just double checked my numbers... they match. do you know where the tranny number is stamped?
another great job as usual.!
just double checked my numbers... they match. do you know where the tranny number is stamped?
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (Got79Fever)
Here from a source (1978-1982, see below).
"The identification code for a Turbo 350 transmission is stamped in a vertical surface on the passenger side. This code has six characters. The first is a letter that denotes the manufacturing plant. The second is a number representing the year. The third is a letter denoting the month. The fourth and fifth are are numbers representing the day of the month. The final letter is either a "D" for day shift or "N" for night shift.
The letters designating the month of manufacture are as follows: A is January, B is February, C is March, D is April, E is May, H is June, K is July, M is August, P is September, R is October, S is November, and T is December.
In addition to the above described production codes, each Turbo 350 transmission also contains the final eight digits of the serial number of the car in which it was originally installed. This sequence is stamped into the case on the driver-side flange adjacent to the oil pan."
As you can see, this numbers business can get a little complex as alluded to earlier.
*Edit*-And I am too tired this evening to take that pic of the transmission code;) . But it is numbers matching.
[Modified by paul79, 9:00 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 9:05 PM 8/18/2002]
"The identification code for a Turbo 350 transmission is stamped in a vertical surface on the passenger side. This code has six characters. The first is a letter that denotes the manufacturing plant. The second is a number representing the year. The third is a letter denoting the month. The fourth and fifth are are numbers representing the day of the month. The final letter is either a "D" for day shift or "N" for night shift.
The letters designating the month of manufacture are as follows: A is January, B is February, C is March, D is April, E is May, H is June, K is July, M is August, P is September, R is October, S is November, and T is December.
In addition to the above described production codes, each Turbo 350 transmission also contains the final eight digits of the serial number of the car in which it was originally installed. This sequence is stamped into the case on the driver-side flange adjacent to the oil pan."
As you can see, this numbers business can get a little complex as alluded to earlier.
*Edit*-And I am too tired this evening to take that pic of the transmission code;) . But it is numbers matching.
[Modified by paul79, 9:00 PM 8/18/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 9:05 PM 8/18/2002]
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
Just a side note, "matching numbers" anymore DOES NOT even come close to guarranteeing(sp?)that it is "THE" original motor. Have seen several pads this year that were obvious restamps. To alot of people this really does'nt matter-but to alot it does!!!!!
paul79, Also, there should be a "V" plus two other digits before that "27ZBB", which would probably be V0927ZBB, which would be Flint engine plant, September 27 or V1027ZBB, which would be October 27. I can't see it well enough in the pic to tell what it actually is.
[Modified by Paul Borowski, 9:44 PM 8/18/2002]
paul79, Also, there should be a "V" plus two other digits before that "27ZBB", which would probably be V0927ZBB, which would be Flint engine plant, September 27 or V1027ZBB, which would be October 27. I can't see it well enough in the pic to tell what it actually is.
[Modified by Paul Borowski, 9:44 PM 8/18/2002]
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (Paul Borowski)
Thanks Paul. The weather was hot, the engine was hot and I was hot when the pic was taken. I will take another peek. I did not want to introduce the complexity of re-stamping, just put forward a typical example for new Corvette owners to point out the basics: there is a number on the engine block that "matches" a number on the vehicle VIN. Also I did not wish to get into "correct" vrs "matching" numbers since they are topics onto themselves.
*Edit*-It is indeed V1027ZBB. The V10 seems to be a different font from the rest for some reason. But that may just be my eyes. The date makes sense: engine build in late October for the matching VIN body to accept in the first week of November 1978.
[Modified by paul79, 5:25 PM 8/19/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 5:40 PM 8/19/2002]
*Edit*-It is indeed V1027ZBB. The V10 seems to be a different font from the rest for some reason. But that may just be my eyes. The date makes sense: engine build in late October for the matching VIN body to accept in the first week of November 1978.
[Modified by paul79, 5:25 PM 8/19/2002]
[Modified by paul79, 5:40 PM 8/19/2002]
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
I talked to 2 different NCRS judges last year on this subject and came away more confused than ever. It may have had something to do with the fact that the 2 of them disagreed on some parts which were prone to wear and oft replaced. When I first got started in the ownership side of the C3, numbers matching was important to me, but the longer I owned my car the more I just wanted to run it and have some fun while doing so. This may be a sore point to some but I will be painting my car a non- corvette colour this winter, a late 70's GM carmine red. I love the looks and the ride of the C3's and will keep mine for years to come.
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (gdh)
What can I say? My car is driven. The major components such as engine and transmission are "matching." And that is fine with me. And I will try to keep them that way. But other parts? I have used Canadian Tire....I am not **** about the rest. I tried to draw a distinction between major compenents (matching) and numbers (e.g. alternators). I truly believe that most non-**** buyers will go to the engine block pad first and forget the rest.
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
Paul, thanks for a good thread and talking point. It has been my observation that most people who are in it for a car to enjoy but would like some assurance that the car will retain a solid selling price look at engin # and vin # matches. NCRS types and collectors have a much longer list but that goes with the high prices and intended purpose of the vehicle.
I have also observed that guys selling base model Vettes are the first to trumpet 'matching numbers original' when in reality the value of the car is better served by a crate engine or the like. My 2 C3s were L48s at time of purchase and one had the original block and the other didn't. I did not care nor did I pay a premium for it because it was going to be modified/replaced. However, the seller thought it was more valuable that way. :rolleyes:
I have also observed that guys selling base model Vettes are the first to trumpet 'matching numbers original' when in reality the value of the car is better served by a crate engine or the like. My 2 C3s were L48s at time of purchase and one had the original block and the other didn't. I did not care nor did I pay a premium for it because it was going to be modified/replaced. However, the seller thought it was more valuable that way. :rolleyes:
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (SuperFast80)
Very nicew illistration Paul...Thank you very much...:cheers:
And this post should be a perment sticky note so that noone asks about this again... :lol: :lol: :lol:
And this post should be a perment sticky note so that noone asks about this again... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Matching Numbers Example-For New C3 Owners Perhaps! (paul79)
*Edit*-It is indeed V1027ZBB. The V10 seems to be a different font from the rest for some reason. But that may just be my eyes. The date makes sense: engine build in late October for the matching VIN body to accept in the first week of November 1978.
