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“So, you can determine the metallurgical grade and properties of aluminum just by looking at it?”
Of coarse he can tell just by looking at it.
Did you read the first post.
“Keep in mind I am a 42 year Aviation guy and an FAA Inspector so I think I have an eye for quality. “
Anyone worth their salt dealing with aircraft parts better know what they are looking at.
At least to know, it is not what it should or could be and to know the difference.
“Really? What characteristics does the higher quality aluminum display that the cheaper aluminum lacks?”
[EDIT--- removed comment]
A DeWitts radiator screams at you it is a well thought out, well made quality product.
It has formed tanks, formed inlet and outlet, and is configured for your application. It fits in the stock brackets and uses the stock hoses.
If you painted it black, no one without a magnet would notice it was not stock except for the beautifully welded tank seam.
And yes it cost more than a lesser product.
A Champion looks like it was made to the lowest price.
2 sizes fit all applications.
It has folded square cornered tanks.
Cut and welded sharp turn inlet and outlet.
Welds that look like they came out of a caulking gun.
Does not fit into the stock brackets without modification.
May or may not clear the hood.
May or may not use the same hoses.
And yes it cost less, but you got exactly what you have not paid for.
actually the dewitts I received requires dewitts rubbers and those cost extra....
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; Jun 17, 2016 at 11:55 AM.
Reason: remove comment
My new DeWitts radiator has arrived. I got on the phone with John last Monday (8/10) and ordered my large core radiator with an upgrade internal trans cooler with AN-6 fittings attached. I was told it would take up to 10 days to build with the upgrade then shipped. Ordered the custom build radiator on 8/10, shipped on 8/14 and received on 8/19. That was great service. I look at the radiator and compared the quality to the Champions. Keep in mind I am a 42 year Aviation guy and an FAA Inspector so I think I have an eye for quality. I find the quality in DeWitts craftsmanship and Aluminum to be superior to the Champion. The aluminum in the Champion appears softer than the DeWitts. I have purchased 3 Champions (2 for other applications) and with exception to the one I damaged no problem with them.
Again, however, now that I have seen the Champions quality next to the DeWitts; the DeWitts, technically and materially, is far more superior.
Pointing out the obvious differences to [EDITED] is not an advertisement.
I am simply a satisfied customer that can see the difference.
I enjoy having the option to choose a better product instead of settling for the cheapest and many times only inferior option.
Formed tanks are harder to make, require expensive tooling and cost more.
Formed inlets and outlets are harder to make, require expensive tooling and cost more.
Proper welds require good welders that cost more.
Proper furnace brazed cores are stronger, last longer and cost more.
It also comes with customer service and quality control that cost more.
It is made in the USA that cost more.
This is why it is a better product that cost more.
The DeWitts radiator does fit in the stock brackets with the stock rubber cushions.
Mine has done so for many years.
It did so without modification, any extra effort or the purchase of new parts to connect it up.
The fact that they chose to make the tooling, to make a better fitting cushion, is one more example of what makes a better product.
And yes they have the audacity to charge a reasonable price for it.
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; Jun 17, 2016 at 11:02 AM.
Reason: remove namecalling
...so you admit they made a better fitting cushion , so the stock cushion is inferior or I know, lets say theirs fits "better".
Many people here simply choose for their own personal reasons to buy the less expensive champion , but in this case since all the cats here who run champion say it cools just fine that makes it inferior?
I guess it's inferior in ways other than doing what an aftermarket radiator does, "cools the vehicle"
Before you flame me...I not only have a dewitts but it was custom and cost even more....
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; Jun 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM.
Reason: removed quote, beginning of argument
Wow! This is why I seldom post on here. There are a lot of great people with great knowledge. Then there are others whom seem to know little and challenge all. Some I wonder why they have a c3 at all when I read some of the questions asked when basic skills would have answered it for them. However if you have a piece of 7075-t6 aluminum stock and place it next to a piece of 7075-0 you would under stand what I'm saying about look an feel of aluminum.
The OP is the FAA inspector not me.
Quotation marks have a meaning and purpose.
I just make the stuff he may or may not have inspected.
With an experienced eye he noticed a difference based on observed facts.
[insult removed].
Many people can easily tell the difference between the widely available commercial alloys of aluminum and their heat treatment.
Aluminum is made to the same specification by all manufacturers.
If you want the specs look them up and learn what they mean.
I listed a number of facts that are the obvious observable differences between the two different radiators and formed my opinion.
[more EDIT, insults removed]
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; Jun 17, 2016 at 11:20 AM.
Reason: personal remarks edited out
Wow! This is why I seldom post on here. There are a lot of great people with great knowledge. Then there are others whom seem to know little and challenge all. Some I wonder why they have a c3 at all when I read some of the questions asked when basic skills would have answered it for them. However if you have a piece of 7075-t6 aluminum stock and place it next to a piece of 7075-0 you would under stand what I'm saying about look an feel of aluminum.
Take a look back at your first post (#1) "The aluminum in the Champion appears softer than the DeWitts." Wow! So your saying Dewitts is t6 quality....
But, more important, when people join the forum and ask basic questions, I don't have a problem trying to help because this is a forum that is all about helping each other across all skill levels.
I will only sit on a Kohler C3 toilet since all others are inferior in design and function and provide an inferior experience...
Seriously guys... That what this conversation reminds me of... (coincidence the most expensive toilet is a "C3" ) unlike the toilet... a person driving the car would likely not notice any difference in performance and function and most will not actually see and difference in longevity if cared for the same way.
As far as composition, Isnt a fiberglass c3 heavier and "softer than a cheaper safer steel bodied car or even the newer corvette? Did this impact our decision to buy one? Why is it such a big deal here then? its not likely that a rock is going to hit a c3 raditator and even if it did it wouldnt be with any force at the angle it would come in at... has the softer metal been shown to wear out quickly with the right coolant?
Last edited by augiedoggy; Jun 10, 2016 at 11:24 AM.
I personally like to see observations of products purchased by other members of this forum. I may or may not agree with the person's choice, but it does help me make a more informed decision in the long run. This thread went a little asunder pretty fast.
I'm trying to figure out how you can tell a brass copper radiator from aluminum without a magnet as someone posted. Is there a magic magnet I don't know about?
I'm trying to figure out how you can tell a brass copper radiator from aluminum without a magnet as someone posted. Is there a magic magnet I don't know about?
It's not technically magnetic, but this is interesting and affects brass and aluminum.
I do not believe it takes a lifetime of touching metal to feel and see a difference, one can see it even in pictures,
Honest question. What do you guys see in these pictures? Attachment 48362478
That's a Shepherd radiator that was around $170 shipped a few years back. 3-row aluminum radiator that is frequently found available on amazon, still for under $200 shipped.
BTW please don't pick apart my original fan mounting brackets and fuel line routing. I've addressed all that, these photos are several years old.
When at highway speeds does the fan ever turn off....
It does not. I ordered some small relief flaps but they were way too small so I shelved the idea for a while. Also, the last time I drove the car, if I revved it past 3k the hoses would collapse. This means that droning along at 75 saw increased engine temperatures unless I push in the clutch and let it idle and cool down right away. I recently installed a moroso themostat housing with a bleeder. I'm hoping that with the double overdrive 6-speed will keep the temps down at highway speeds and maybe the fan will shut off.
Originally Posted by wendellp601
I have the same fan and shroud on my stock radiator.
I'm very pleased with the performance.
Really? The same pan? Was it because of one of my posts in the past or did you come up with it the same way I did? I'd love to see pics of that!
Last edited by AboveTheLogic; Jun 10, 2016 at 09:01 PM.
It does not. I ordered some small relief flaps but they were way too small so I shelved the idea for a while. Also, the last time I drove the car, if I revved it past 3k the hoses would collapse. This means that droning along at 75 saw increased engine temperatures unless I push in the clutch and let it idle and cool down right away. I recently installed a moroso themostat housing with a bleeder. I'm hoping that with the double overdrive 6-speed will keep the temps down at highway speeds and maybe the fan will shut off.
Really? The same pan? Was it because of one of my posts in the past or did you come up with it the same way I did? I'd love to see pics of that!
"you get what you pay for" I originally thought meant something to the effect of good things cost more... [EDIT removed quote].
Yeah that statement no longer holds true in many cases... For example there's a certain popular exhaust system im not gonna name names but its sold for over twice the price as another brand which identical in every way and is made in the same factory... People want to BELIEVE its a better product because its twice the price and sold under an American brand name/ distributor vs the other one which is over $600 cheaper... that's the way it is with MANY name brand items or items through middlemen distributors who market them and mark them way up.
When it comes to the champion vs dewitts thing though it is a bit different... your are comparing two drastically different products one from the US that overbuilt if anything to one that made out of the country and made to cool an engine at normal radiator prices you would see for most other comparable tasks... Its also like comparing a factory valve cover to an expensive custom cnced polished one... My 40+ year old cheaply made harrison radiator was not built to the standards of the dewitts 43 years ago and it still worked ok 2 years ago when I removed it so...To me the Question of whether its logically worth it is in the eye of the beholder and can make sense if origin is important or a person is looking to rebuild and engineer the car to much higher standards than originally designed for looks as well as function. BTW harrison radiator is owned by GM /dephi now and I was told it cost somewhere between 30 and $40 to make most of their radiators ten years ago by a friend that worked there. just something to chew on.
My champion is hands down a better looking and functioning rad than the original It replaced and it was well under $200... Sure the dewitts might look better just as a set of $1200-1500 welded rims may be better than the $600 cast ones I just bought but would I ever need the advantages of the high end welded wheel? No just as I would guess a good portion wouldnt see benefits from a radiator that has a superior finish and spec tolerances. If someone wants one great but I really dont see the need for people to keep insisting they are the only correct choice for everyone and the other are junk... These cars weren't exactly known for their high end quality fit and finish so there's a lot of other things that could benefit more from the funds for me..
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; Jun 17, 2016 at 11:29 AM.
Reason: removed deleted quote initiating conflict
) unlike the toilet... a person driving the car would likely not notice any difference in performance and function and most will not actually see and difference in longevity if cared for the same way.
