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Doing the Borgeson conversion on my 75 SBC with tilt/tele column.
The rag joint Borgeson supplied will not slip on the end of my steering shaft. I miked the inside "valley" of the coupler spline and got 0.097", outside of the shaft splines= 0.096". The set screw is all the way out of the spline connection on the rag joint
I want to put the coupling on the box and then align the steering wheel and slip the column shaft into the rag joint. With these kind of clearances, this is not going to happen. I've cleaned the splines, checked for burrs, etc but everything looks clean. The coupling can't be driven on.
What am I missing here?
Suggestions appreciated.
Thanks
You can make a new assembly using your original steering shaft coupler component and the Borgeson coupler component. I didn't like the rubbery actual rag joint that B. supplied so I used an original
Doing the Borgeson conversion on my 75 SBC with tilt/tele column.
The rag joint Borgeson supplied will not slip on the end of my steering shaft. I miked the inside "valley" of the coupler spline and got 0.097", outside of the shaft splines= 0.096". The set screw is all the way out of the spline connection on the rag joint
I want to put the coupling on the box and then align the steering wheel and slip the column shaft into the rag joint. With these kind of clearances, this is not going to happen. I've cleaned the splines, checked for burrs, etc but everything looks clean. The coupling can't be driven on.
What am I missing here?
Suggestions appreciated.
Thanks
Stumpshot, I have just today fitted a Borgeson box to a friend's '73 coupe and we found the same trouble. Rob had pulled his T/T shaft right out of the car and while the factory rag joint slid on easily, the Borgeson one didn't. So on my advice, Rob found a small triangular file and I filed every one of the rusty 48 splines on the factory shaft until they were all shiny. Then, with a bit of WD 40, the rag joint slid on easily and bottomed out in the rag joint.
I suggest you try this. It can be done in the car, but is much easier with the column removed. It is also easy to collapse the shaft about 2-1/2" while it's out. When we installed the shaft in the car, we found it to be several splines out, so had to undo the under-column bolts and slide the column back and out of the rag joint. I was lying under the car and turned the rag joint (and input shaft of the box) around a few degrees and the shaft slid easily back into the rag joint.
I did not have that trouble with my '74 back in 2010, but Rob was unlucky. Anyway, it's back together and we will let the air bubbles float out of the power steering fluid overnight and it should be good to go tomorrow.
Stumpshot, I have just today fitted a Borgeson box to a friend's '73 coupe and we found the same trouble. Rob had pulled his T/T shaft right out of the car and while the factory rag joint slid on easily, the Borgeson one didn't. So on my advice, Rob found a small triangular file and I filed every one of the rusty 48 splines on the factory shaft until they were all shiny. Then, with a bit of WD 40, the rag joint slid on easily and bottomed out in the rag joint.
I suggest you try this. It can be done in the car, but is much easier with the column removed. It is also easy to collapse the shaft about 2-1/2" while it's out. When we installed the shaft in the car, we found it to be several splines out, so had to undo the under-column bolts and slide the column back and out of the rag joint. I was lying under the car and turned the rag joint (and input shaft of the box) around a few degrees and the shaft slid easily back into the rag joint.
I did not have that trouble with my '74 back in 2010, but Rob was unlucky. Anyway, it's back together and we will let the air bubbles float out of the power steering fluid overnight and it should be good to go tomorrow.
Best of luck with your car.
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
Good to know.
I just received my Borgeson rag joint and drag link.
Waiting on the backordered Borgeson steering box right now.
Txs John....
Has anyone contacted Borgenson about this issue. I was looking at this conversion, but I don't expect these kind of issues to show up for a model specific kit.
Ignatz, Aussiejohn & 65.
Thank you so much for your replies! I intend to clean the splines today with a file and retry. Failing that I will use Ignatz method.
I will post when things go farther forward.
Stump
Thanks to all the help here, the box is in!
I filed the splines as Aussiejohn suggested and took a smidgen off the tops as 65GG suggested. The joint was a little tight but some oil and, with vice grips holding the shaft, I was able to tap it fully on and off, rotate the fitting, tap it on again-----well you get the idea. After numerous rotations it slipped on anywhere I wanted but was still a good fit with the splines.
I over-drilled the 3 holes on the new box by 1/16" so I had a little more tilt adjustment. The rag joint was tilted down a little but seems to align pretty well now.
For tomorrow: Pitman arm, Tierod adapter and the hydraulic lines.
Figuring out what Borgeson is saying about flare vs o-ring fittings and the brass adapters is too much for me after today.
Thanks again to all!
Good luck with the Pitman arm fit, there may be similar issues with it not getting seated deeply enough. I was lucky enough to have a store nearby that let me try out a number of used arms till I found one that seated deeply enough to let me get the nut and washer fully attached. Might want to keep the files handy.
I used a small wire wheel on my drill and cleaned up the splines on the column shaft. I cleaned / wheeled the splines until they were clean and shiny. The joint then went on easy.
You can turn the steering wheel to make it easy to clean the entire shaft.
for the cost of this make model specific kit do your guys really believe modding the original part is an acceptable answer?
Would love to hear what Borgenson says.....
for the cost of this make model specific kit do your guys really believe modding the original part is an acceptable answer?
Would love to hear what Borgenson says.....
I did not find it a "mod" to remove the 45+ years of rust and crud on the shaft in less than 10 minutes with a wire wheel. I have helped 7 friends install the unit.
I spent just as much time, and in most cases more time cleaning, with a 2" wire wheel other areas where we changed parts including the shock mounts.
I've had no fitment problems, after a complete cleaning of all parts with a wire wheel. 7 out of 7 went right together.
I guess with 1960 & 70's factory tolerances' any thing is possible.
Last edited by BLUE1972; Jul 11, 2016 at 08:27 AM.
Reason: spell
I did not find it a "mod" to remove the 45+ years of rust and crud on the shaft in less than 10 minutes with a wire wheel. I have helped 7 friends install the unit.
I spent just as much time, and in most cases more time cleaning, with a 2" wire wheel other areas where we changed parts including the shock mounts.
I've had no fitment problems, after a complete cleaning of all parts with a wire wheel. 7 out of 7 went right together.
I guess with 1960 & 70's factory tolerances' any thing is possible.
I do not consider cleaning a mod either but after reading each reply I got the impression perhaps wrong that it went further than "cleaning" and into removing some metal, to me removing metal is modding the part.
Same issue on my 72. I filed down the column splines enough to fit.
I filed the splines as Aussiejohn suggested and took a smidgen off the tops
Perhaps all it needed was cleaning and taking metal off wasn't necessary
I do not consider cleaning a mod either but after reading each reply I got the impression perhaps wrong that it went further than "cleaning" and into removing some metal, to me removing metal is modding the part.
Perhaps all it needed was cleaning and taking metal off wasn't necessary
I'm not adverse to cleaning IF cleaning removes enough of the burrs placed in the shaft by the oriiginal split clamp. I did wire wheel the splines but wire wheeling did not remove any of the burrs or the hard rust in the root of the splines. A fine, 3-bladed file cleaned the splines nicely and also removed the burrs on the shaft. I have had to tweak almost every aftermarket part purchased for this car, and there have been many over the years. If fear of a fine file stops you, don't try anything major like an engine or transmission swap.
for the cost of this make model specific kit do your guys really believe modding the original part is an acceptable answer?
Would love to hear what Borgenson says.....
+1 With you 100% on this. The cost is getting a bit shocking with a R&P conversion getting within striking distance after labor and having to buy a bracket to avoid frame cracking -then realizing that you can't turn your wheels all the way or you'll rub the tires...
I'm not adverse to cleaning IF cleaning removes enough of the burrs placed in the shaft by the oriiginal split clamp. I did wire wheel the splines but wire wheeling did not remove any of the burrs or the hard rust in the root of the splines. A fine, 3-bladed file cleaned the splines nicely and also removed the burrs on the shaft. I have had to tweak almost every aftermarket part purchased for this car, and there have been many over the years. If fear of a fine file stops you, don't try anything major like an engine or transmission swap.
If you saw the mods I do and have done the last 30 plus years you would know a little file doesn't bother me, but you mistook or deliberate reworded what I was saying, cleaning a part to fit is one thing and modding the part to fit is another....no reason to drag that out....
+1 With you 100% on this. The cost is getting a bit shocking with a R&P conversion getting within striking distance after labor and having to buy a bracket to avoid frame cracking -then realizing that you can't turn your wheels all the way or you'll rub the tires...
Adam
A lot of so called bolt on kits are no really bolt on and many issues that should have been worked out by companies selling varies conversion kits are not worked out in hast of just getting the kits out on the market....worry about fit and issues latter...
+1 With you 100% on this. The cost is getting a bit shocking with a R&P conversion getting within striking distance after labor and having to buy a bracket to avoid frame cracking -then realizing that you can't turn your wheels all the way or you'll rub the tires...
Adam
You guys are doing the Borgeson conversion a disservice by claiming that an additional bracket is required. If it makes you feel better fine, but the geometry of the Borgeson Pittman arm mechanicals is the same and the unit is mounted in the same holes in the frame. The force required is the arm working eventually against the friction of the tires and any other resistance in the linkage. It's no different than the stock unit. Newton's third law.
You guys are doing the Borgeson conversion a disservice by claiming that an additional bracket is required. If it makes you feel better fine, but the geometry of the Borgeson Pittman arm mechanicals is the same and the unit is mounted in the same holes in the frame. The force required is the arm working eventually against the friction of the tires and any other resistance in the linkage. It's no different than the stock unit. Newton's third law.
He may be mistaking Borgeson for rack and pinion (he said rp) which Borgeson is definitely not. Borgeson just takes the place of all the p/s stuff underneath with only two hoses, one pressure, one return. No external valves. All the fluidics are in the pump and steering box, everything underneath is the same as manual steering.
Problem with Borgeson Rag Joint install
