Can anyone give me a couple EFI in tank fuel pump recommendations?

I'm 65% likely to just go with a Holley Sniper TBI, BUT the FAST EZ 2.0 multiport system where I can bring my own intake and combine it with a F.I.R.S.T intake is really calling my name so I want a pump that can handle 8, 35lb injectors incase I go that route instead.


I've got a great shop installing my Monster Trans 4L60e and my Steeroids and I want to have them install my EFI fuel pump while they're at it. -They're in Indiana where labor is only $36 an hour when you know someone, vs. the shops around Seattle where I live where it's $110 an hour.... -So I want to have them do anything that I just don't want to do/ they can do way faster. I need to locate an appropriate fuel pump ASAP and get it purchased.



Adam

 

I'm running an Aeromotive phantom setup in my car and it works well.

Some companies sell tanks for early C3s with sumps ready to go. Vette Works Online, I think, has a solution for all years of C3.

Holley also has a new solution that lines the bottom of the tank with an absorbent mat that effectively acts like a sump.

When you do the pump they'll also have to run a new return line. Our systems are 3/8" feed, 1/4" return and 1/4" is too small for an EFI system where we're moving quite a bit more fuel through the whole system.

 

Tanks Inc has everything you need. I have installed them in mine and 2 other Vettes.

 

...apparently for '68-'74 vettes, but what do you do if you have a '77 for instance? I have not found a single company that has a product offering in their catalog for that year.

 

Another vote for the Phantom setup.

The Phantom system has its own sump and I installed it in the right half of the tank. Originally, I used an LS filter/regulator but on advice of my tuner, converted to an Aeromotive regulator/filter combo set at 42 psi and 1/2 returnless feed line (using a return system was really heating up my fuel at cruise).

I am also using the Aeromotive Fuel Pump Speed Controller to reduce pump speed at cruise.

Two years and almost 5k miles with no issues.

http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product...h-fuel-system/
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product...ed-controller/

 

And yet another vote for the Aeromotive Phantom-

Seems to be a quality piece and well designed-

I'm running a return and added a rollover/vent valve w/ a charcoal canister and a sealed gas cap.

Also using a cooler on the return side.





DSCN4904

 

Yup. I'm not looking for a whole new gas tank for my '79, but I have noticed that although these later years saw the highest production #'s of any vettes quite a few aftermarket parts mfgrs stop supporting the later, cheaper C3s. (I guess because we're not as willing to be robbed like early C3 owners/ our cars just don't have the resale value to justify such huge part markups...)


Adam

 

-Like most of your car, a work of art, Richard.

Why a fuel COOLER? I've been considering a fuel WARMING solution (and I'm not going to have any intake exhaust cross-over; cold air == good) as I thought warmer fuel temps = more power from increased fuel atomization....


Adam

 

NewBvette, cheaper option would be to get an 82 sending unit which will drop right in your 79 and install something like an 86 in tank pump. The 82 unit has the wires required and the 86 pump means tht if you break down somewhere the local parts place would probably have a replacement. Not sure of how much pressure you need, but it might be something to look at.

 

Mike "Kanvasman" might have a viable- less expensive solution...

There are several thoughts on this...from the old "cool cans" with dry ice used in drag racing... the thought is cooler fuel has a greater specific gravity and produces more power...


Mine is used on the RETURN side as the fuel returning to the tank is warmed by running through the fuel rails in the engine. So I am cooling the fuel before it reaches the tank-and IIRC 98% of the fuel is returned to the tank at idle. So you can't wonder if the fuel is actually acting like another engine cooler - absorbing heat and transferring it . Now how much? IDK?

The BMW I took the my engine out of- did use a fuel cooler from the Factory-and I'm guessing they did a lot more research than I.

So before anyone says it's not a great idea-
M-B, Ferrari, Rolls Royce and Porsche use them- that are even using the AC system to drop the temp-

 

Cool fuel doesn't evaporate as fast. Fewer fuel vapors are easier to handle without venting and not losing fuel vapor helps fuel mileage. New cars are moving to PWM controlled fuel pumps without a return line so the fuel in the tank doesn't get stirred up or heated up and it's not for performance but rather to gain a little big of fuel economy by not creating unnecessary fuel vapor in the tank.

In port injected engines, the fuel to pretty much turn to vapor when it hits the hot intake port/valve.

 

I have been wanting to change my pump setup as well.. I have a friend that used the parts of a 80 fi system in his 79, and put in the FAST pump in it place... worked great..

 

Guys, I'm more confused than when I started...

How the heck can a fuel pump cost $500??

How do I figure out how many LPH or PSI I need? -I'm looking at 425 gross HP optimistically, if that helps.


I thought I just needed a simple $200 in take pump like this: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/12-929

But when I look at the options exposed through the Holley site; it's overwhelming: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...in-tank_pumps/


I was hoping to have the new EFI fuel pump physically installed in my tank but not actually running / not hooked up to the electric so that the car can operate on the current fuel pump until I'm ready to do the EFI install- then I just do the EFI part of the install and plug in the new EFI fuel pump and get rid of the existing pump.

It sounds like it might be a lot simpler to just wait and pull out the old fuel pump and replace it with a new "retrofit" pump?

-I'm not even clear on exactly what "retrofit" means in this case....


What is the difference between a "fuel sender" and the pump?

I like the idea of using the 82 fuel sender and an 86 pump like Kanvassman recommended; IF the flow volumes and pressures are appropriate for a modern EFI system.


Adam

 

I like this idea of throttling the fuel pump speed down at idle; seems like a no-brainer I'm surprised as hell that a $450 stand-alone controller is required to do this; seems like the type of thing that the EFI computer should do for you out-of-box....


The Phantom pump controller describes the reason for not wanting to heat the fuel: vapor lock- apparently a problem for both carbs and TBI EFI- makes sense.

Adam

 

Yes, by now I would have expected full PWM controlled fuel pumps to be standard with aftermarket EFI but it's only appearing slowly.

It's fairly difficult to vapor lock a EFI system when it's running 50psi of fuel pressure.

You can also install a sump on the tank or install a surge tank and then use an external pump which will also give you good results. The move to internal pumps on OEM applications had a lot to do with cost and simplicity of installation. I believe with the right fittings you could just gravity feed your tank into a little surge tank and use either a pump in the surge tank or an external pump. Check Ebay for surge tank ideas. There is one series of tanks made that fits an external pump half inside the tank which looks interesting. The gravity feed would eliminate the need for another fuel pump to feed the surge tank. Fords ran external pumps for years with good reliability. I'm running an old 90ish era Ford junkyard pulled $5 pump on my car and it's still working fine. I feed it via a $40 sump I welded to the tank.

I personally would not buy a FAST EZ EFI system. I read too many posts by people having issues with them being hard to make work without noise interference issues. Now if FiTech would release a system that allowed you to use your own throttle body it'd be the one to try.

 

If I'm looking to just drop in the 1982 "sending unit" (still not totally sure exactly what that term means) is this what I need?

http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corve...pump-1982.html
$109.99

And this 1986 Corvette pump?
http://www.highflowfuel.com/i-520972...1985-1996.html
$69.99


Or would I need other things like some sort of filter sock "hydromat" thingy?


Any idea on the GPH / LPH and PSI ratings of the old 86 Vette fuel pumps? Are they enough to support a modern port injection system for an engine with roughly 425 hp?


I seriously thought that the fuel pump would be just a ridiculiously dead-simple part of this EFI conversion....


Adam

 

Yea, I saw a lot of the early issues with the FAST EZ EFI 2.0 and the abysmal customer support so I'm wary there, too. But most of the issues seem to have been tracked down to bad grounds / voltage stability in the cars' electrical systems, noise (which can be remediated by locating the computer under the dash rather than the firewall and carefully running your wires, AND major noise issues with FAST's Dual Sync distributor, which they've rectified with a new version of the dual sync distributor.

I'd prefer to go with a Holley Terminator to bring my own port manifold (FIRST) but I don't think they sell a "bring your own manifold" version and I'm afraid that I would have issues just trying to sell the throttle body by itself.



Adam

 

As I'm feeling particularly introspective today, I'll also throw out there just how much value I've found in a few threads where Lionelhutz and Richard454 have both chimed in with their different perspectives and approaches to problem solving.

I know a few of the threads have gotten tense and almost shut down by admins, but your two different approaches honestly compliment each other and make the threads better. -Richard coming at the problem from a "best practices" / "what the pros do / have done" and Lionel from the perspective of the underlying theory and bringing the perspective of how / why something works. (Note: I'm not saying that Richard doesn't know how / why things work, nor that Lionel doesn't have a view of common implementations / best practice, just that they each seem to have these different inherent approaches to problems.)

-I'm someone who always wants / needs to understand how something works / why things are done a certain way, but I need the practical grounding of how it's usually done / done by others to not try to pursue the impossible / something that's only a good idea in theory.



Adam

 

Thanks Adam-

I think Albert Einstein said it best-

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."

Richard

 

The pickup should work. Lots of people use it but then many others comment on the pump sucking air too when the tank is low. It could be a case where GM didn't fully understand the baffling required for an EFI system yet.

I'd be wary of that pump. It seems to be a generic no-name. A better brand name one should come with the info you ask.

I tend to stick with GM EFI systems. Overall, they work well and you can do more with less money. I just make up the harness and route it where it's convenient without any real care about being close to the distributor or ignition wires or keeping certain wires away from other wires or hooking the ground wire to just that one perfect spot while holding my tongue the right way. This is why I'm not impressed with the FAST system since it still seems to delicate to be a properly engineered system.


LOL, Sayings like this one or "engineering belongs in books and not the real world" are simply ignorant of what underlying knowledge gives you. They both imply that practice is what you need with the second outright discrediting any theoretical knowledge vs the quoted one only implying that theoretical knowledge is useless. Knowing how to solve the problem yourself is much better than copying what solved the problem for someone else, and you can't do that without knowing theory. Also, if you don't know some level of theory then when the solution you are copying doesn't work you are completely screwed since you don't have the knowledge to examine what you have and why it doesn't work.

The above is why I tend to explain why and how something works in the hope it kicks in your brain cells so hopefully you can also understand instead of just copying what seems to be the best solution, maybe because it has the prettiest marketing or was an expensive or pretty solution you found applied somewhere else. I myself have plenty of practical experience to back up any theory I post.