Hello all, I'm picking up a pristine 67 Camaro next month with 50K miles. My Vete is an 07 Z06 with about 650 HP. The new Camaro has a whopping 210 HP base 327. Love the car, cannot handle 210 HP.

For budgetary considerations, I might just do a cam and top end of the 327 for a year or so until I can get a 400 to 427 small block short block that is built, then transfer the top end over, except for cam of course.

The base 327 has crappy heads, 8.5:1 compression, 2 bbl carb.

By switching to 64cc heads, I can get about 9.75:1 compression, maybe a tad more with the right gasket set.

So - I was thinking a roller conversion cam, AFR heads, 195 to 210cc runners (looking to the future). Air gap intake, 4bbl, headers, etc.

So - what are the limits of a stock 50 year old short block 2 bolt main? Both HP and rev limits? I think the above setup could EASILY put out 350+ HP, maybe a tad more.

I don't want to blow the short block, but won't cry if I do, unless I break a piston and ruin an AFR head.

So can the block and rotating assembly handle 350 HP and 6,000 RPM?

EDIT: First pic is what I envision the final look to be. The rest of the pics are of the actual car. My first '67 had the nose stripe and a vinyl top, so I'm just partial to them, plus they set it apart IMHO.

It has a deluxe interior, with something I've never heard of - a bench/bucket front seat, it even has courtesy lights for the back seats.

 

I did exactly this to a 69' Camaro, 210 horse 4 speed......
Dart 180 heads-64cc, Air Gap, Comp .510/520 hyd roller and a 750 Holley DP.........it was a friends car....he beat it repeatedly for about a year...blew the Borg Warner.....in went a TKO500...and 3.73 posi.
It ran 12.80 on Drag Radials in this form with the stock short block from 1969.....shifting at about 6200-6300......
It finally lost oil pressure and was jerked for a 383.......

Point is that this pristine car was driven HARD.....and it survived quite a while.

I say go ahead.

BTW....it made about 400-410 at the crank......the 5 speed transformed it too.

Jebby

 

Thank you for that reply, very helpful. I was hoping for more like 400 HP, but thinking conservatively.

You wouldn't happen to have that cam part number, would you? Sounds like what I'm looking for.

Also, how hard is the conversion to a roller lifter setup? Never done it.

Again - thanks.

PS - it also has a powerglide, so a conversion to a TH350 or better is also obviously in the cards.

 

The old 68 suburban 327 block in my 68 Vette made 207 rwhp with bad rings, a roller cam, old 77 Chevy ii heads with massive valve guide leaks and a 650 Holley. It got me looking at how high it could go when rebuilt. Came across this article where they got 400+
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...62-horsepower/

 

Converting to a roller lifter is not hard at all. Just get out your visa card and get the right components and install them. No machine work is needed. The 327 is a good motor. Lacking cubic inches and torque compared to motors being built these days. It can handle 400+ HP no problem providing it is in decent shape. The heads to make a 327 work good will not be big enough for a 400+ cubic inch motor. If you put big heads on the 327 they will be to big and you will have to scream the motor to make them work. A good set of around 180 cc heads will make the 327 work well but it will be to small for a bigger motor. You will want at least 210 heads for a 400+ cubic inch motor. You are talking 100+ more cubic inches. Cam and head choice are what makes the HP. Find a set of good used heads for the 327 and run them. Save your money for the big cubic inch motor stuff.

 

It was a 12-432-8 cam. Pretty health for a 327 but with all of the other components, it liked it......The Dart 180 heads were a perfect compliment......I installed the cam 106 ICL.....
Looking back.....it had a Victor Jr., not an Air Gap. MSD Pro Billet Dist., Comp Pro Magnum Rockers, Trend Pushrods, Cloyes Hex-a-Just timing set......1 5/8" Hooker Super Comps with a 2 1/2 X-pipe exhaust and Flowmaster 40's.......LOTS of fun......made neat noises and scared children and old ladies......it will need at least a TH350.....I recommend a 700r4.....and some stall.....
We did all of this as half of an experiment and half because we kmew the parts would lend themselves to another engine if needed. The car was a 49,000 mile original unit......just a neat project...and unheard of even ten years ago....
And they did.....after the 383 was installed...I took ALL of this stuff and installed it on a 71 Z-28.....with a 4 speed Munice and 3.73 gears......ran even better with the 350.

Converting to roller is a snap if you BUY EVERYTHING......you also need a cam button to keep the cam from walking out.......this cover gives an almost perfect .010 end play with the gasket....I have checked and installed over a dozen with the same results: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...0010/overview/

And please invest in a premium Harmonic balancer.....

Here is the my buddies 69' in action at Milan Dragway in Michigan....

Jebby

 

On the 100% stock-appearing builds we do we can get to 340/350 HP on the 327" pump-gas platform, not all that difficult! Just finished a '64 Vette, 335 HP with 9.6:1 C.R., 100% stock looker! Small valve heads, etc.

The addition of the retro-hyd roller setup adds about 30 HP (already factored into that above number). You can do more than that HP amount also by spending more time/money and chasing higher numbers, entirely doable! All comes down to budget.

We strongly recommend going full-roller, both lifters and rocker. All can be done to look 100% correct down to a single-thick V/C gasket.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I placed this info up here earlier but we are now able to do the retro-roller build without any cam buttons or chasing cam end play anymore. Already done a high number over here! Setup uses the later stepped-nose cam/thrust-plate with some minor block machining along with a Torrington tru-roller timing chain set. If you do a search you'll find a shot of one finished! Makes the early roller builds now a "walk-in-the-park"!

 

Thanks to everyone, lots of good info here.

Jebby, how streetable is that cam and setup? I know that I'd be sacrificing some performance going with an AFR 220cc intake runner size, but it'd switch over to the new motor easily.

I might have to go with a milder cam until I get the new tranny, torque converter and 12 bolt rear end with proper gears. I'm assuming it's the 2.73 rear end gears in a 10 bolt. It has a powerglide tranny in it right now so 1st gear is obviously steep, combined with the 2.73 rear end.

 

Good article, only problem is I'm starting with a 50 year old, stock 2 bolt block and rotating assembly. Not sure how well it would hold up to that setup.

I guess it'd work ok as long as I didn't beat it to death and kept it to 6,000 RPM or so.

 

Interesting thought. I wonder what you could get out of a stock looking 327/275 hp setup (4bbl carb and double hump heads)? Especially with 355 ci instead of 327.

I'm more leaning towards stock looking on the outside (except for tire size) and a show motor under the hood.

I'll add pics if it'll let me.

 

It was very streetable......I was a bit worried about putting that much cam in a 327.....but it loved it.....part of it was dialing it in for the 106 ICL on the Hex-a-Just and having a proper curve and box......I tuned the carb with my Innovate before it broke and it was damn near the ultimate street cruiser.......
I thought the 327 was more fun than the 383 because it charged the revs harder......made a better note......even though the '83 was faster....cracked me up that the oil pan was never removed from it....LOL! Hell...we never took the engine out of the car!
I should have bought that damn car.....

Jebby

 

I guess that's at least partially why 327's are so legendary.

And that's exactly why I AM buying that damn car. I don't want to look back and regret passing it up.

It has 50K miles and looks it, has been stored in a climate controlled barn for most of its life.

At $27K I feel it's a pretty fair price for a '67 in excellent condition.

 

I would buy it.....save that seat....it is the first one I have seen in real life.....my Old Man's 67 SS396 was supposed to have one years ago but none of us could find out what the hell it looked like.....this was a few years before dial up AOL....LOL!
That is a solid buy given the market....freakin Vettes are a back seat to Camaros and Chevelles.....

Jebby

 

I would pass it up. ... I sold my 67 rs/ss. 350 4 speed just a few years ago. My friend has a restorable one. They are out there


The older small journal 327 just plain suck. GM knew that they were the weak link and that is why 68 went to the large journal crank shaft for 302, 327, and 350

I built a true 8000 rpm large journal. 060 over bore 3.250 stroke motor for use in a restricted carb size class circle track car and it later went into my two 4 barrel tunnel rammed street rod

I would not recommend a pre 68 327 or non rs. SS 67 to any body. The 2 speed glide. Look around for valuable 67s

 

You cannot touch a "valuable" 67-69 for less than 30k without having to pour a bunch of work into it......
I would start with the nicest car you can afford and go from there.....
It is the same problem any of these old cars have....you cannot make a return on investment unless you are VERY crafty and extremely talented or have a garage full of NOS parts.......
All of the RS and SS and Big Block L78 and whatever cars all trade in a high circle somewhere outside of dreams and Barrett Jackson-ville......
That ship has sailed........you will pay BIG for ANYTHING with a pedigree.

The small journal 327 is fine....I forgot to tell you the one above was a one year only large journal......
At the RPM we are talking......it is pointless to discuss.

Jebby

 

I can respect that opinion, but I disagree. I would MUCH rather buy a car that needs nothing, already fully restored and slide in a new engine and tranny. I can buy a crate engine and put it in myself in a weekend easily for $5,000.

I CANNOT buy a crate restoration for $5K and slip it in over a weekend. I personally don't want a "restorable" car at this point in my life unless it's just too good to pass up. I just don't have the time to restore a car, and hiring someone else to do it is the definition of a money pit, unless you have a pit full of money :-)

I wasn't looking for this car, it fell into my lap. I kinda feel like it was meant to be. I won't bore you with the full story, but this car was clearly meant to be - if you knew the full story.

I already built one '67 in the 80's and look forward to doing another one, only this time I won't make the mistake of selling it.

BTW - my first '67, I bought it in 1980 I believe I paid around $1,200 for it. Wonder what it would be worth now. Oh - and it had a base 327 and a glide in it also - at least at first.