406 Build & Results
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 49
From: Bridgewater nj
That is a serious torque curve! Congratulations !
I would maybe play with a different rocker ratio 1.6 but that's a strong 406 that will only get stronger as it breaks in. Good luck with it!
I would maybe play with a different rocker ratio 1.6 but that's a strong 406 that will only get stronger as it breaks in. Good luck with it!
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Personally I would not have used 195 heads on a 406 . 220 would be my choice and my 'Opinion" for what it is worth tells me you're HP would be up about 25 to 35 and tq be about the same.
As fa as Gkull saying 500 will have you wanting more he is possible right but that happens at 600 to lol
As fa as Gkull saying 500 will have you wanting more he is possible right but that happens at 600 to lol
Very good numbers for such a mild cam.. I'd drive and enjoy it, it should have excellent manners.. However I could see a cam swap netting you another 30-40hp.
As mentioned the heads are a little small for 406" and a quest for more peak HP...you could have them worked and probably gain 20-30hp from that, however it's probably not worth the trouble/cost.
Honestly I'd put it in and drive/enjoy it.....you're not really gonna feel 20-30hp on the street anyway. You have a really nice, well matched street combo, it will have great driveability and probably even be decent on fuel economy. Can't ask for more then that.
As mentioned the heads are a little small for 406" and a quest for more peak HP...you could have them worked and probably gain 20-30hp from that, however it's probably not worth the trouble/cost.
Honestly I'd put it in and drive/enjoy it.....you're not really gonna feel 20-30hp on the street anyway. You have a really nice, well matched street combo, it will have great driveability and probably even be decent on fuel economy. Can't ask for more then that.
And MORE COMPRESSION.... 11:1
Racer
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 307
Likes: 19
From: Kirkland WA
Sorry to detour from the o/p but this is one spectacular dyno sheet for a 383 with 1 5/8" headers. I feel a bit vindicated about that header tube size which I also chose for street use. This build appears identical to my 383 except I'm using Pro Filer 195s. Must have had a lot of head work done to beat me by 40hp. Please share what you know!
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
is that the 850HO?
(have that)11.5:1 260/268@050 .640 .640 108lsa Isky SR 230cc head flows 290s/228 fully ported team G 1" phenolic. Probe dome .015 down 62cc .028?? gasket 79/89 jetting----????
Have to send you particulars one day when I have something to paypal one day to find a sim. Just curious cant drive it right now.
Wondering if what i have is even as strong as what you have listed. Prob not esp on torque
Last edited by cv67; Nov 18, 2016 at 10:34 AM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
And I would bet that they are not even the competition ported heads.. just the standard 195's... AFR kicks ***
Last edited by pauldana; Nov 18, 2016 at 12:03 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,524
Likes: 61
From: Medina Ohio
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Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,524
Likes: 61
From: Medina Ohio
Darin Morgan designed the profiler SBC chambers / ports. They are a very good head, they just don't have the marketing & exposure that AFR does. Chad Speier and others will argue Pro-filer over AFRs. He talks about port velocity and design over just flow numbers. Although Chad does have the basic SBC Pro-filers flowing over 300cfm with port work. Feel free to check out Speier or google Pro-filer vs AFR and read the years of Forums.
https://www.profilerperformance.com/
They are NOT a China "Pro" etc. head.
Last edited by Ibanez540r; Nov 18, 2016 at 02:28 AM.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 664
Likes: 89
From: Marysville Ohio
Pro Filers are a good head - next time I build an engine they may be on my parts list. I think they take a little work before they compare to AFR, but can be made to compete and are a great bang for the buck.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Aren't there some motor mounts that will additionally buy you a tiny bit more hood clearance, too?
Adam
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
500ft/lbs. torque and zero slip will find the weakest link in a hurry.....
Luckily I had the hood off......it was being worked.....if it had popped that mount with the air chamber installed...for sure it would have cracked it......
Moroso makes several different mount with several different pad dimensions.......whether this will create more clearance is beyond me......but the car is getting Moroso solid mounts now........and probably an adjustable lanyard cable to hold preload on the drivers side.
Jebby
Jebby
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Nope. Made right here in Ohio. Familiar with Jeff Lutz? He just ran a 6.19 during drag week with Pro-filer heads (Obviously a whole different league BBC, etc.).
Darin Morgan designed the profiler SBC chambers / ports. They are a very good head, they just don't have the marketing & exposure that AFR does. Chad Speier and others will argue Pro-filer over AFRs. He talks about port velocity and design over just flow numbers. Although Chad does have the basic SBC Pro-filers flowing over 300cfm with port work. Feel free to check out Speier or google Pro-filer vs AFR and read the years of Forums.
https://www.profilerperformance.com/
They are NOT a China "Pro" etc. head.
Darin Morgan designed the profiler SBC chambers / ports. They are a very good head, they just don't have the marketing & exposure that AFR does. Chad Speier and others will argue Pro-filer over AFRs. He talks about port velocity and design over just flow numbers. Although Chad does have the basic SBC Pro-filers flowing over 300cfm with port work. Feel free to check out Speier or google Pro-filer vs AFR and read the years of Forums.
https://www.profilerperformance.com/
They are NOT a China "Pro" etc. head.
Last edited by pauldana; Nov 18, 2016 at 10:57 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Might have been true a couple years back, but now about what you can say is:
- Nothing out there (SBC 23 degree) beats AFR's exhaust port flow #'s.
- Lots of stuff now has VERY close to AFR's (Street) out-of-box intake flow #'s and all of that stuff is cheaper (The profilers actually BEAT the AFR street heads up until 0.500" lift for $400 less- over $500 less if you know where to get a discount.)
- With some port work some of that other stuff can beat AFR's (Street) intake flow #'s for the same money
- The comp versions of AFR's heads have just spectacular flow and upgraded valves and springs - they're still the top of the food chain
AFR 195cc / 64cc Street:
.200 .300 .400 .500
Int 146 201 247 275
Exh 119 166 197 213
Profiler 195cc / 64cc:
.200 .300 .400 .500
Int 145 209 254 273
Exh 110 145 180 206
The Profilers actually BEAT the AFRs at the same CC rating at 0.300-0.400 lift and are $400 cheaper.
They really need a new name for these heads because people now associate any name starting with "Pro" with "Chinese".
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; Nov 18, 2016 at 10:53 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Let's compare Straub's cam and results to the OP's.
Same LSA, but with quite a bit more duration for Straub's.
The op's peak HP is @ 5,300-5,400 RPM; Straub's is at 6,200 RPM.
Straub's cam duration is bigger and the cubic inches are smaller.
The lifts are essentially the same on both.
Straub's also got the cam split matched to the AFR head's intake to exhaust ratio; has others have pointed out the off-the-shelf Bootlegger cam has too much exhaust duration if you've got a properly optimized exhaust that lets the head's exhaust ports flow.
Lunati rates the cam for 2,600-5,800 RPM, but that's with 350 cubes.
If you want the bigger HP # you have to move the hp peak up by going with a bigger cam.
I like what I've seen regarding the Bootlegger cam lobes, though- fast ramp with a decelerated valve close event so they don't get the bounce/sewing machine noise of the Comp Extreme Energy series.
Adam
Same LSA, but with quite a bit more duration for Straub's.
The op's peak HP is @ 5,300-5,400 RPM; Straub's is at 6,200 RPM.
Straub's cam duration is bigger and the cubic inches are smaller.
The lifts are essentially the same on both.
Straub's also got the cam split matched to the AFR head's intake to exhaust ratio; has others have pointed out the off-the-shelf Bootlegger cam has too much exhaust duration if you've got a properly optimized exhaust that lets the head's exhaust ports flow.
Lunati rates the cam for 2,600-5,800 RPM, but that's with 350 cubes.
If you want the bigger HP # you have to move the hp peak up by going with a bigger cam.
I like what I've seen regarding the Bootlegger cam lobes, though- fast ramp with a decelerated valve close event so they don't get the bounce/sewing machine noise of the Comp Extreme Energy series.
Adam
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Lunati was doing that with their voodoo cams yrs ago. Steered away from fast ramp stuff just a personal thing maybe on a small cam with light springs
imo if you need more cam just buy a different one rather than forcing a cam to be something its not
The bootleggers remind me of Comps thumpr line. Dont think Comp bought them directly but own them now in some right hope the quality stays
Those two heads are designed totally differnt. Chads a member here maybe he will pipe in. Seems getting the right hardware in there is key
imo if you need more cam just buy a different one rather than forcing a cam to be something its not
The bootleggers remind me of Comps thumpr line. Dont think Comp bought them directly but own them now in some right hope the quality stays
Those two heads are designed totally differnt. Chads a member here maybe he will pipe in. Seems getting the right hardware in there is key
Last edited by cv67; Nov 18, 2016 at 11:29 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 201
From: Willoughby Ohio
IMOP you can't go wrong with either head (pro-filer or afr). Budget and header choice were what determined the way I went. The other difference is if you want to upgrade. With the AFR you have to buy a new head. The Pro-Filer can be sent to Chad for porting up to a 265 cc runner.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
AFR 195cc / 64cc Street:
.200 .300 .400 .500
Int 146 201 247 275
Exh 119 166 197 213
Profiler 195cc / 64cc:
.200 .300 .400 .500
Int 145 209 254 273
Exh 110 145 180 206
The Profilers actually BEAT the AFRs at the same CC rating at 0.300-0.400 lift and are $400 cheaper.
.200 .300 .400 .500
Int 146 201 247 275
Exh 119 166 197 213
Profiler 195cc / 64cc:
.200 .300 .400 .500
Int 145 209 254 273
Exh 110 145 180 206
The Profilers actually BEAT the AFRs at the same CC rating at 0.300-0.400 lift and are $400 cheaper.
I can tell you right now arguing low lift flow point numbers is really dumb when you consider the tiny amount of time that the valve spends at .200, 300. & .400 lift numbers when the most lift time on a lobe is the nose of the cam where the valve is over .500 lift in a .600 max lift motor.
this old solid roller of mine is something like .625/.648 lift with 1.6 ratio rockers. next to "ZERO" time spent at mid lifts. I'm concerned about the .600 and up CFM of flow
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
This is my 434 ci sbc SR cam .685/714 lift. Look at the ramp speed. It doesn't care about mid lift numbers. It spends the most duration over .600
If you look closely the lift side of the lobe is steeper than the valve lowering side. To have less chance of valve bounce when it hits the seat.
If you look closely the lift side of the lobe is steeper than the valve lowering side. To have less chance of valve bounce when it hits the seat.
Last edited by gkull; Nov 18, 2016 at 01:44 PM.