#$%$!@#$@# Old Car @#$#@ Steering & Brakes
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
#$%$!@#$@# Old Car @#$#@ Steering & Brakes
Well, I just got my 79 Vette off of the truck about an hour ago. Mud caked over every possible part from being on an open truck (I knew that would probably happen).
First thing down a pretty steep hill, I found out it's got maybe 10% brakes and the pedal goes to the floor and the red Brake warning light comes on.... WTF?
Then as I'm pulling into the you-wash car wash, I realize that the new Steeroids Rack and Pinion drives almost like it's got no power steering at low speeds and kind of comes in jittery at up to 15 mph....
Finally as I'm driving it slowly up the hill to get home I notice the shift from 1st to 2nd is kinda.... Clunky not just harsh, but "clunky"....
Then the water starts dripping in under the front of the T-tops and the passenger window. WONDERFUL START to my relationship with this car....
I get the distinct feeling I won't be working on anything fun for quite some time...
The water is obviously easy, the brakes I'm sure are low on fluid, but -WHY?
The steering being crappy is inexcusable. With all the money I dropped in this stupid thing the steering and transmission should be working WAY better. Pretty beyond frustrated at this point.
Adam
First thing down a pretty steep hill, I found out it's got maybe 10% brakes and the pedal goes to the floor and the red Brake warning light comes on.... WTF?
Then as I'm pulling into the you-wash car wash, I realize that the new Steeroids Rack and Pinion drives almost like it's got no power steering at low speeds and kind of comes in jittery at up to 15 mph....
Finally as I'm driving it slowly up the hill to get home I notice the shift from 1st to 2nd is kinda.... Clunky not just harsh, but "clunky"....
Then the water starts dripping in under the front of the T-tops and the passenger window. WONDERFUL START to my relationship with this car....
I get the distinct feeling I won't be working on anything fun for quite some time...
The water is obviously easy, the brakes I'm sure are low on fluid, but -WHY?
The steering being crappy is inexcusable. With all the money I dropped in this stupid thing the steering and transmission should be working WAY better. Pretty beyond frustrated at this point.
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; Dec 12, 2016 at 04:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Well, I just got my 79 Vette off of the truck about an hour ago. Mud caked over every possible part from being on an open truck (I knew that would probably happen).
First thing down a pretty steep hill, I found out it's got maybe 10% brakes and the pedal goes to the floor and the red Brake warning light comes on.... WTF?
Then as I'm pulling into the you-wash car wash, I realize that the new Steeroids Rack and Pinion drives almost like it's got no power steering at low speeds and kind of comes in jittery at up to 15 mph....
Finally as I'm driving it slowly up the hill to get home I notice the shift from 1st to 2nd is kinda.... Clunky not just harsh, but "clunky"....
Then the water starts dripping in under the front of the T-tops and the passenger window. WONDERFUL START to my relationship with this car....
I get the distinct feeling I won't be working on anything fun for quite some time...
The water is obviously easy, the brakes I'm sure are low on fluid, but -WHY?
The steering being crappy is inexcusable. With all the money I dropped in this stupid thing the steering and transmission should be working WAY better. Pretty beyond frustrated at this point.
Adam
First thing down a pretty steep hill, I found out it's got maybe 10% brakes and the pedal goes to the floor and the red Brake warning light comes on.... WTF?
Then as I'm pulling into the you-wash car wash, I realize that the new Steeroids Rack and Pinion drives almost like it's got no power steering at low speeds and kind of comes in jittery at up to 15 mph....
Finally as I'm driving it slowly up the hill to get home I notice the shift from 1st to 2nd is kinda.... Clunky not just harsh, but "clunky"....
Then the water starts dripping in under the front of the T-tops and the passenger window. WONDERFUL START to my relationship with this car....
I get the distinct feeling I won't be working on anything fun for quite some time...
The water is obviously easy, the brakes I'm sure are low on fluid, but -WHY?
The steering being crappy is inexcusable. With all the money I dropped in this stupid thing the steering and transmission should be working WAY better. Pretty beyond frustrated at this point.
Adam
Brakes.... you can screw around and waste whatever time you want... or just replace all 4 calipers with o-ring calipers and the MC... 1 day work, ~$800
steering... you have a rac-n-pinion.. cool... the linkage between the steering wheel and R&P is not right and binds... time, about 2 hours.. cost $0
Shift clunk... the snubber rubber is gone in the rear end..1 hour, $5
t-tops always leak.. new wether seals, and time... a lot of it... 2 days ~$200
Last edited by pauldana; Dec 12, 2016 at 05:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
I read the Steeroids t-shooting guide and from what I've been able to gather the stock C3 power steering pump keeps the pressure at around 950 psi; the Steeroids kit prefers and will work better at low RPMs around 1200 PSI.
From this thread https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-overhaul.html
it looks like I might be able to take apart of the power steering pump and replace the "valve assembly control" and replace it with one that doesn't cut out until 1,200 PSI- no?
I should also mention I've got 255 45R 18" on it so there's a good bit of friction for the pump to overcome.
Did I mention it's a new transmission just installed 4L60e with computer control? -There's a line pressure setting in the software -I'm going to spend a bit more time tracking this one down. Right now I think there's only a clunk from 1st to 2nd, but we'll see.
Thanks Paul!
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; Dec 12, 2016 at 05:20 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
The brakes, rotors and lines were just replaced within the past year. MC wasn't ever touched.
I'd like a bit more information on this.
I read the Steeroids t-shooting guide and from what I've been able to gather the stock C3 power steering pump keeps the pressure at around 950 psi; the Steeroids kit prefers and will work better at low RPMs around 1200 PSI.
From this thread https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-overhaul.html
it looks like I might be able to take apart of the power steering pump and replace the "valve assembly control" and replace it with one that doesn't cut out until 1,200 PSI- no?
I should also mention I've got 255 45R 18" on it so there's a good bit of friction for the pump to overcome.
Did I mention it's a new transmission just installed 4L60e with computer control? -There's a line pressure setting in the software -I'm going to spend a bit more time tracking this one down. Right now I think there's only a clunk from 1st to 2nd, but we'll see.
This one I actually knew; didn't know how much labor it would take, though...
Thanks Paul!
Adam
I'd like a bit more information on this.
I read the Steeroids t-shooting guide and from what I've been able to gather the stock C3 power steering pump keeps the pressure at around 950 psi; the Steeroids kit prefers and will work better at low RPMs around 1200 PSI.
From this thread https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-overhaul.html
it looks like I might be able to take apart of the power steering pump and replace the "valve assembly control" and replace it with one that doesn't cut out until 1,200 PSI- no?
I should also mention I've got 255 45R 18" on it so there's a good bit of friction for the pump to overcome.
Did I mention it's a new transmission just installed 4L60e with computer control? -There's a line pressure setting in the software -I'm going to spend a bit more time tracking this one down. Right now I think there's only a clunk from 1st to 2nd, but we'll see.
This one I actually knew; didn't know how much labor it would take, though...
Thanks Paul!
Adam
Steroids.. jack the front of the car off the pavement, with car off, turn the steering wheel full left and full right... if you have ANY binding, ever how small, it is not adjusted correctly... and far as the PSI,,, pain in the but the change,,, you have to take off the pressure line at the pump, and the fittings behind the line.. there are several flat washers, i forget wether you remove 1 or add 1... but one or the other:-) no, do not care about your tires or wheels
the clunk is coming form the rear end snubber bushing... replace
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Brakes... did you replace them, or were you just told? rebuilding them yourself is a 50/50 outcome... I have Wilwoods, and they are much better, and much lighter.. but cost more as well.. (just a FYI, I actually race my Vette,, and so everything on mine is aftermarket.. also, the MC may be bad as i pointed out... the Wildwood is way lighter of you can afford one.. you ether have a bad MC, bad caliper(s) or both
Steroids.. jack the front of the car off the pavement, with car off, turn the steering wheel full left and full right... if you have ANY binding, ever how small, it is not adjusted correctly... and far as the PSI,,, pain in the but the change,,, you have to take off the pressure line at the pump, and the fittings behind the line.. there are several flat washers, i forget wether you remove 1 or add 1... but one or the other:-) no, do not care about your tires or wheels
the clunk is coming from the rear end snubber bushing... replace
Steroids.. jack the front of the car off the pavement, with car off, turn the steering wheel full left and full right... if you have ANY binding, ever how small, it is not adjusted correctly... and far as the PSI,,, pain in the but the change,,, you have to take off the pressure line at the pump, and the fittings behind the line.. there are several flat washers, i forget wether you remove 1 or add 1... but one or the other:-) no, do not care about your tires or wheels
the clunk is coming from the rear end snubber bushing... replace
Thanks again.
I only mentioned the width of the front tires because the shop that installed the rack used that as the reason / excuse why it felt like 1/2 power steering.
I'll check this out first. I'd like to think they would've at least checked for anything binding...
I'll look into the rear end snubber bushing more.
Adam
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 39
From: Denver, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
as for the braking issue, they simply might not be bled out. Ive gotten a car back from a shop with NO brakes. Fudge them, they aint getting the car back and ill never do business with them again. Take an hour and re-bleed them. 1 bottle of brake fluid is all...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,462
Likes: 985
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
Sorry I have to disagree with you Paul on this one...I change brake fluid and bleed my brakes every 4-5 years when I do the exchange and never in 35 years have had a problem bleeding the stock SS lip seal calipers...cake.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
but i have much more than a stock brakeing system..
I would also suggest to the op, if he is going to go all out on the brakes to go Hydroboost as well... it is an amazing feel.
Last edited by pauldana; Dec 12, 2016 at 07:01 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,741
Likes: 645
From: Lincoln, CA
The stock pump on the R&P is too much PSI and allows you to turn the steering wheel with your pinky.
Adding the washers from the kit reduces the PSI and increases the effort needed to turn the wheel.
As stated check for bind and fluid level. I bet they installed the u joint out of phase.
Adding the washers from the kit reduces the PSI and increases the effort needed to turn the wheel.
As stated check for bind and fluid level. I bet they installed the u joint out of phase.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
I know that the Mustang Rack and Pinion guys have the opposite problem and they complain that the rack and pinions are too sensitive.
Right now mine seems to have the opposite problem.
(They also drilled into my console to install 2 bright red toggle switches for the trans computer controller to switch between perf mode and eco mode and to control the TC lockup--- the point being that they drilled into my console and installed 2 giant switches without asking me about it first... UGH!)
Adam
Last edited by NewbVetteGuy; Dec 12, 2016 at 08:21 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Not remotely interested in that. My brakes don't work at all right now. I'm just interested in having the stock-style brakes work again for the time being.
Adam
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 494
From: Salmon Arm, BC
I would suggest the OP take the master cylinder off and bench bleed it first. If you don't do that, and it turns out that was the problem, all you've done is get really PO'd, waste hours of time, and gallons of brake fluid. Make sure when you bench bleed that you move the unit around to release any trapped air.
Then bleed the brakes like normal....
Last edited by OMF; Dec 12, 2016 at 08:50 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
NO you don't.....
I would suggest the OP take the master cylinder off and bench bleed it first. If you don't do that, and it turns out that was the problem, all you've done is get really PO'd, waste hours of time, and gallons of brake fluid. Make sure when you bench bleed that you move the unit around to release any trapped air.
Then bleed the brakes like normal....
I would suggest the OP take the master cylinder off and bench bleed it first. If you don't do that, and it turns out that was the problem, all you've done is get really PO'd, waste hours of time, and gallons of brake fluid. Make sure when you bench bleed that you move the unit around to release any trapped air.
Then bleed the brakes like normal....
That being said, the reason so, most people, including shops will not take the time to do it properly... so they leave micro bubbles.. not enough for most people to feel to be honest, but if you have ever really felt rock solid brakes... well... like i said, imho...
Also, I run an adjustable knee brake proportioning vale and have much more rear braking power than a stock C3. ...it also is an amazing addition.
Last edited by pauldana; Dec 12, 2016 at 09:41 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,990
Likes: 183
From: Port St. Lucie Fl
