Timing chain set and Timing cover selection
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,056
Likes: 8
From: Redruth Cornwall
Timing chain set and Timing cover selection
Will hopefully be starting on my winter project soon and will be going through the top end fitting new heads, cam, intake, carb and water pump.
Most of the items I have are Edelbrock (purchased a NOS Edelbrock Performer RPM top end kit) so I started by looking at the Edelbrock 7800 timing set and the Edelbrock 4860 timing cover.
After doing a little research, I came across the Cloyes make and in the same sort of price range is the 9-1100. I also see that a 2 piece timing cover allows for easier cam swaps but I struggled to find a 2pc cover with good reviews for less than about $75. The Edelbrock 4242 is even more.
So, looking for advice. Should I stick with the Edelbrock chain and cover in the knowledge that everything should fit without issue?
Is a 2pc timing cover really worth the extra money?
What timing sets and covers do you guys run in the mid budget range?
Appreciate any input.
Most of the items I have are Edelbrock (purchased a NOS Edelbrock Performer RPM top end kit) so I started by looking at the Edelbrock 7800 timing set and the Edelbrock 4860 timing cover.
After doing a little research, I came across the Cloyes make and in the same sort of price range is the 9-1100. I also see that a 2 piece timing cover allows for easier cam swaps but I struggled to find a 2pc cover with good reviews for less than about $75. The Edelbrock 4242 is even more.
So, looking for advice. Should I stick with the Edelbrock chain and cover in the knowledge that everything should fit without issue?
Is a 2pc timing cover really worth the extra money?
What timing sets and covers do you guys run in the mid budget range?
Appreciate any input.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 201
From: Willoughby Ohio
The cloyes 2 pc cover will fit but requires a little machining. You can mill the cover face or modify the water pump back plate as i did. I found the Edelbrock water pump to have the most clearance. The thread with pictures is for dart 400 shp build.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
I thought that a 2 piece timing cover is only relevant if you spring on an adjustable timing chain setup and the whole point is that you can easily and quickly adjust the timing to go between Street and Strip cam timing.... -No?
I was thinking for a while that I wanted an adjustable timing chain and 2 piece cover so that I could advance the cam as far as possible in the cooler months -to maximize low end torque- and then when the weather gets hot, if I start getting pining I can back it off but I can get much easier detonation resistance by just adjusting the ignition timing in the EFI system rather than the cam timing so I decided that a simple timing chain and cover let's me spend the money elsewhere where it will be more useful.
One more opinion, anyway.
Adam
I was thinking for a while that I wanted an adjustable timing chain and 2 piece cover so that I could advance the cam as far as possible in the cooler months -to maximize low end torque- and then when the weather gets hot, if I start getting pining I can back it off but I can get much easier detonation resistance by just adjusting the ignition timing in the EFI system rather than the cam timing so I decided that a simple timing chain and cover let's me spend the money elsewhere where it will be more useful.
One more opinion, anyway.
Adam
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 201
From: Willoughby Ohio
I thought that a 2 piece timing cover is only relevant if you spring on an adjustable timing chain setup and the whole point is that you can easily and quickly adjust the timing to go between Street and Strip cam timing.... -No?
I was thinking for a while that I wanted an adjustable timing chain and 2 piece cover so that I could advance the cam as far as possible in the cooler months -to maximize low end torque- and then when the weather gets hot, if I start getting pining I can back it off but I can get much easier detonation resistance by just adjusting the ignition timing in the EFI system rather than the cam timing so I decided that a simple timing chain and cover let's me spend the money elsewhere where it will be more useful.
One more opinion, anyway.
Adam
I was thinking for a while that I wanted an adjustable timing chain and 2 piece cover so that I could advance the cam as far as possible in the cooler months -to maximize low end torque- and then when the weather gets hot, if I start getting pining I can back it off but I can get much easier detonation resistance by just adjusting the ignition timing in the EFI system rather than the cam timing so I decided that a simple timing chain and cover let's me spend the money elsewhere where it will be more useful.
One more opinion, anyway.
Adam
Dave
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,455
Likes: 977
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
I looked at all this timing chain cover issue during the rebuild of my L-82 355 and decided to go with a comp cams double roller timing chain and reused the stock GM timing cover WITH a roller cam and cam button with zero issues about timing cover flex etc. On the C3 engines with the short water pump with the timing cover directly against the back of the water pump, there is little room for timing cover flex with a roller cam and cam buttom...exactly how it has turned out. I would save your money....just me.
Last edited by jb78L-82; Jan 5, 2017 at 03:48 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,938
Likes: 848
From: melbourne florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Stock cover. Cloyes gear set. 2 piece covers are overrated on a c3 Corvette. It's a 15 min job to remove the oil pan with power tools if you know what your doing..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
I considered one of those as well. I finally decided that my driving is pretty much the same not split between strip and street. I chose the cam carefully and went with what it had to offer.
Changing the timing is not a short task for sure. Belts to take off. water to drain. Then pull the water pump remove top of cover, that's a min with the split cover.
Without you can add in pulling the harmonic balancer..maybe, you might be able to flex it out of the way...not likely though, then pull the timing cover and dropping at least the front of the pan which will require removing most of the pan bolts. Then putting all that back together when you're done and putting water back in.
Not a 15 min job for me.
I have not found a reason to do all that to change the way the cam comes in on my car. I think you are only going to effect the top or bottom what? 200ish RPM anyhow. Not really worth the effort in my case.
I believe if you choose the cam carefully you can avoid the hassle.
Changing the timing is not a short task for sure. Belts to take off. water to drain. Then pull the water pump remove top of cover, that's a min with the split cover.
Without you can add in pulling the harmonic balancer..maybe, you might be able to flex it out of the way...not likely though, then pull the timing cover and dropping at least the front of the pan which will require removing most of the pan bolts. Then putting all that back together when you're done and putting water back in.
Not a 15 min job for me.
I have not found a reason to do all that to change the way the cam comes in on my car. I think you are only going to effect the top or bottom what? 200ish RPM anyhow. Not really worth the effort in my case.
I believe if you choose the cam carefully you can avoid the hassle.
Last edited by REELAV8R; Jan 5, 2017 at 05:19 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,938
Likes: 848
From: melbourne florida
2023 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Once you get all the other stuff out of the way then the pan is about 15 min but yes the entire job takes a fair amount of time. How often do you plan on playing with cam timing
Had a 1976 L-82, 4-sp
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,338
Likes: 1,213
From: Some days your the dog and some days your the hydrant.
Royal Canadian Navy
I considered a two-piece timing cover but went with a Proform cast aluminium cover and a Howard's billet steel double roller timing chain which is adjustable for cam timing.
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
Use these two items:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1100
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...0010/overview/
The Cloyes street roller is the best you can buy on a budget. Unless you are running .600 roller cams....this is fine.
The Allstar cover was a all day research find for me about 10 years ago.......NOBODY made a SBC timing cover with the "peace sign" stamped in it........this was a problem for using roller cams. I have used about 40 or 50 of these in the past 10 years and with the short roller button.....you run this cover with a Fel Pro gasket and you get a spot on .010 cam endplay......no really, I'm serious
I have this cover on my own 406 and it works great with the short water pump. Price is right too.
Jebby
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1100
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...0010/overview/
The Cloyes street roller is the best you can buy on a budget. Unless you are running .600 roller cams....this is fine.
The Allstar cover was a all day research find for me about 10 years ago.......NOBODY made a SBC timing cover with the "peace sign" stamped in it........this was a problem for using roller cams. I have used about 40 or 50 of these in the past 10 years and with the short roller button.....you run this cover with a Fel Pro gasket and you get a spot on .010 cam endplay......no really, I'm serious
I have this cover on my own 406 and it works great with the short water pump. Price is right too.
Jebby
Last edited by Jebbysan; Jan 6, 2017 at 10:51 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
Stock cover is all you need especially if you have a top end kit. Once the cam is degreed you won't have a need to access the cam.
Same company makes the casting for both Edelbrock and Cloyes. Cloyes machines there's for the 2pc conversion.
Same company makes the casting for both Edelbrock and Cloyes. Cloyes machines there's for the 2pc conversion.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
Originally Posted by J
[url
[url
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all90010/overview/[/url]
Jebby
Jebby
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
I would like to add that the stock cover is fine. But if yours is damaged or you just want new.......the choices for one with the "peace sign" stamped in it are thin unless you spend $70-100 dollars....which IMHO is ridiculous for a stamped piece of steel.
Jebby
Jebby
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
The BBC seal one is available in the Allstar cataloge as well......
A small seemly insignificant thing that was a huge headache for me years ago.......I hate the cheapo aluminum Super Sunny's cover....they all have to be milled and the only damn thing you can use is socket head screws.
I use the Allstar cover, Moroso pointer, and Professional Products balancers on all of my street builds. I like the Weiand Water pumps but they could not get me the right Corvette 3/4" shaft one last times after I tried three times........I am getting slightly off subject, but these items all relate to each other.
Jebby
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
You need to Google Mike Lewis, Lewis racing engines and the picture of the Professional Products dampner that came apart on him on his dyno. Not a fan. We use and sell Powerbond for the street stuff, Romac for Mid level performance, and ATI for the high end stuff.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 93
From: Tri-Cities TN
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
Here it is. 1 dyno pull...
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37868
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37868
ATI only on a serious piece.....it really to me depends on how hard is continuously run and how hard......
Power bond is the naked finish Australian balancer is it not....?
Jebby
Last edited by Jebbysan; Jan 6, 2017 at 01:39 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Dr. Detroit
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 4,027
From: New Braunfels Texas
Jebby
Last edited by Jebbysan; Jan 6, 2017 at 02:49 PM.