colonel328

I have a 1980 C3 that had a starting problem as the starter would only click but not crank while the battery was fully charged.

I tried to cure this by tightening the copper terminal on the starter (just a little bit) and taking off the cables from the side terminals of the battery and re-mounting them after cleaning. Car started on the first attempt.

On the third attempt, however, the starter spun without cranking (i.e. w/o turning the engine) wouldn´t stop upon release of the key and kept spinning until I was able to take off the negative cable from the battery. Pulling the key out of the ignition lock didn´t help! Took about 2-3 minutes until the starter finally stopped and you could tell by the smell the starter got hot. Whenever I touch the battery with the cable the starter starts spinning again.

What can cause such a behaviour and is there any chance for repairs or should I simply toss the starter and get a new one?

Big2Bird

Replace the solenoid.

VERYSOON

I've experienced this ghostly phenomenon working on sailboat engines with rusty starters. It sounds like the bendix (the thing that is spring mounted and engages the flywheel) is stuck along with some electrical issue. I've made them work by hitting with a hammer to free the bendix. Use this method only at sea where there is no autozone!
VERYSOON

juanvaldez

Sounds like the starter relay is stuck, too.

colonel328

What or where is the starter relay?

REELAV8R

Sounds like a solenoid problem. It's basically an electromagnet. Once the power is applied the magnet is energized which forces a contact closed.
This is the contact from positive from the battery to the starter motor. If the contact welds itself together during this operation you get what you got.

colonel328

Thx, will order one tomorrow. Are there different sizes/lengths or will any do for this model years starter?

Relay = selenoid?

redvetracr

any decent auto parts store will have a solenoid

427Hotrod

Voltage drop is what causes the contacts in the solenoid to weld themselves together. Just like when arc welding...if you have the amperage too low...the rod will stick to the work.

Make sure you measure the voltage loss in the starter main cables and grounds to make sure you don't get the same thing again.

If in a bind, you can disassemble the solenoid and flip the contacts and stud around and have new surfaces.

JIM

colonel328

How do I measure voltage drop? I have a multimeter.

69_Shark

FWIW
I used to have a lot of starter issues on my 69 MANY years ago.
This included replacing the starter itself several times.

It was recommended I replace the starter with a hi torque mini starter.
Space properly with a 1/8 allen wrench and make sure all electrical connections are clean.

I did and all starter problems were solved.

Scott

427Hotrod

Of course there are fancy tools that will give most accurate readings and tell you whether the issue is on the negative or positive side. But for quick and dirty stuff you can do it with two multimeters.

A real tester would apply a load at the battery end and measure the difference in the voltage at the starter vs the battery. You can get an idea if you can hook up two meters...one on each end and crank the engine over without starting it, Pull coil wire or disable distributor. While it's cranking (applying a load) you'll need to read both meters at the same time (need a helper most likely). You're looking for no more than .5v loss total. Then you can ck neg or pos side separately.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...B3A0&FORM=VIRE


Here's another version that jumps ahead a little..

http://www.autotechnician.org/starte...plain-english/

colonel328

Thank you for all your contributions, the recommended change of selenoid was right on! Since the new part is in, not only the problems are gone (so far...) but the starting process itself feels "more powerful", i.e. a quicker response to the turn of the key and a shorter span of cranks until the engine fires up. If it stays like this I´ll be a happy man.

I disassembled the old selenoid and boy that thing sure looks worn!








Oh, before I forget: when I took the starter from the car this thing fell out from underneath the vehicle:



Might be some sort of reinforcement to the metal strap at the back of the starter? I didn´t put it back on since I was unsure where it belongs. Hope not to cause any probs by leaving it out.

sug

That looks like a starter shim .

Big2Bird

Positively. You need to check your engagement.

steersdad

There is no "starter relay" on a corvette. The ignition switch sends 12V to the starter solenoid (by the way, "Bendix" is a manufacturer's name, not a part name), which switches ON the starter motor, and engages the starter drive gears.

In your case, you have two chooices of where to look.

1. Starter solenoid is sticking. Most likely the cause
2. The ignition keyswitch is sticking. Possible, but unlikely.

Test the switch first with A VOM (volt/ohm meter). Make certain that the 12V disappears when you release the switch from the START position. If my memory serves me correctly, this is the purple lead on the solenoid. Or, I may be incorrect, but anyway there should only be 2 or 3 wires on the small terminal on the solenoid.

The solenoid can be a PITA to change especially if you have headers. But if you take the starter all the way out, liv=fe wil lbe easier.

If you have a really skinny friend, let him try getting it out, and back.

make certain you disconnect the battery before trying to remove the starter...

colonel328

Damn. Where does this thing go, between starter and engine?

Big2Bird

Yes. But you should pull the dust cover, extend the pinion with a screwdriver, and check the gear mesh.

427Hotrod

Those are 'textbook" photos of what I was describing about 'arcing" and the welding of the contacts. There will always be some wear....but not like that.

"Emergency" repairs (otherwise known as young and too broke to buy a new solenoid because you bought Hot Rod parts) can be done by flipping the brass washer over and turning the stud 180* to create fresh surfaces. I will admit to doing it more than once!

I'd still measure some voltage drops so the new parts don't end up like the old ones.

JIM

AboveTheLogic

if the starter isn't grinding the engagement is good enough IMO. I did the whole paper clips engagement check and never got it right. Added and removed shims until it sounded right and it seems fine. Your results may vary.

I had sticky solenoid and poor starting (HEI) issues when I ran a cheap battery. Not anymore with a decent battery ($180?!?!?!?! batteries are expensive!!!!). Definitely don't run cheap batteries in old chevys.