1980 Power Steering to Manual?
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Instructor
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1980 Power Steering to Manual?
I found one thread on here that was 13 years old. I have a 1980 model (bought a month ago) and interested in removing the power steering. Have any others done it and what did you think after it was done. Looking to see if there are any negatives besides being harder to turn. Not knowing a whole lot about these cars there weight does not seem like it would need to have it. My back ground for some of this thinking is coming from the racing world and the kit car world. Out of racing because of health and out of the kit car world because I wanted a hard top to go out without watching the weather. This will be my street rod not meant to me an original. Thanks for any thoughts. Dennis
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From: WI
I found one thread on here that was 13 years old. I have a 1980 model (bought a month ago) and interested in removing the power steering. Have any others done it and what did you think after it was done. Looking to see if there are any negatives besides being harder to turn. Not knowing a whole lot about these cars there weight does not seem like it would need to have it. My back ground for some of this thinking is coming from the racing world and the kit car world. Out of racing because of health and out of the kit car world because I wanted a hard top to go out without watching the weather. This will be my street rod not meant to me an original. Thanks for any thoughts. Dennis
parallel park much? if not you need a manual relay rod and a pitman arm, I have an extra of both, if you or anyone else is interested send a PM
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I switched my 77 from power to manual and absolutely love it. It is hard to turn in parking lot.....so what? On the road you can drive it with a finger, but the best part is how much fun it is to drive. The road feel is how I expect a sports car to feel. It is very direct, and with my Gary Ramadei built steering box is very tight. No slop or freeplay in the steering...you move the wheel, the car moves. I didn't even change the steering arm hole to the other hole, since mine is undrilled. I also have a large amount of caster that makes the steering a little harder, but from what I have read here, the more caster the better, so not planning on changing it.
There is no doubt that parking lot work is harder to do, but its a sacrifice I am willing to make at this point to get all the other performance and feel it brings. Bonus....no pumps, belts or leaks to worry about. I drive my car a lot, and how it drives is important.
There is no doubt that parking lot work is harder to do, but its a sacrifice I am willing to make at this point to get all the other performance and feel it brings. Bonus....no pumps, belts or leaks to worry about. I drive my car a lot, and how it drives is important.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Aug 27, 2017 at 03:12 PM.
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I appreciate all of the feed back. If the car was 600 pounds lighter there would be no thinking about it. Would be a done deal. But before I make the decision I wanted to hear from those that did or those who wish they had the power. I admit there is no feel in the wheel and that is what is making me think about changing when I change engines.
Le Mans Master
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From: McHenry Illinois
The Borgeson (in my opinion) is ideal. It gives good road feel, good power assist and less hoses and junk than the stock set-up. The Borgeson company takes a Delphi 600 integral power steering box and modifies it to fit directly on our cars. Since you now have power steering, you could get the kit that just has the box, hoses and rag joint, no need to replace your pump. It fits nicely and looks completely stock except no valve and cylinder under the car to leak and cause extra play. Borgeson has a faster ratio also, so more of a sporty feel. I know there are many who swear by the r&p system, but it adds a bulky rack directly under the engine and requires tightly angled u-joints in the shaft from the steering wheel. I have also read of some kits where the mounting brackets seem weak. With the Borgeson box, to the untrained eye, it looks factory.
Last edited by '75; Aug 27, 2017 at 04:43 PM.
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Comparison
My comparison is from a completely rebuilt factory power steering system, with all new components, compared to my new factory manual steering. I have no experience with the Borgeson upgrade. IF I get to the point I need power steering, it will be Borgeson. I just hope their box is built as tight as a my Gary Ramadie box, cause I will not tolerate any slop or play in the system. When the steering wheel moves, the car needs to move, without delay. That is my concern about using Borgeson.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Aug 27, 2017 at 05:58 PM.
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Drifting
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From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
Listen to '75.
I sell the Borgeson range in Australia and have one of their boxes on my '74 coupe and it steers like my 2010 Holden Cruze. Smooth, easy and predictable. I have sold hundreds of these boxes over the last few years and all of my customers thank me for the vastly improved steering feel they now have.
Several here have fitted R&P kits, but they are more costly, limit access to the oil pan (for removal), and can increase your turning circle. Bump steer has also been mentioned in some of the earlier kits. The Borgeson box uses EVERY part of the steering system that was designed by GM, except for the actual steering box, but even that is a Saginaw/Delphi 600 Series unit.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
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Hi Dennis,
We all have our preferences on this topic of who prefers which, and they are all correct for each of us for all the right reasons.
I have owned both manual (a '68 427 car and a 73 454 car) and power in all of my others. Being older now I personally prefer the power steering route. As for the conversion, I have done it and can tell you it would not be difficult for you to make...basically a parts swap and a new alignment.
I get the impression you have never driven one of these cars with manual steering. aussiejohn is on the right track with his suggestion, but to actually compare make a fair comparison, attempt to find someone who has a manual steering car, and ask if they will let you take it for a short drive. It won't take long for you to get the feel of one vs. the other. Unless you have already made up your mind to make the conversion, you can use the "test drive" as the final input on your decision. Power steering cars with the belt removed are actually harder to navigate than those designed as manual steering cars.
Dave
We all have our preferences on this topic of who prefers which, and they are all correct for each of us for all the right reasons.
I have owned both manual (a '68 427 car and a 73 454 car) and power in all of my others. Being older now I personally prefer the power steering route. As for the conversion, I have done it and can tell you it would not be difficult for you to make...basically a parts swap and a new alignment.
I get the impression you have never driven one of these cars with manual steering. aussiejohn is on the right track with his suggestion, but to actually compare make a fair comparison, attempt to find someone who has a manual steering car, and ask if they will let you take it for a short drive. It won't take long for you to get the feel of one vs. the other. Unless you have already made up your mind to make the conversion, you can use the "test drive" as the final input on your decision. Power steering cars with the belt removed are actually harder to navigate than those designed as manual steering cars.
Dave
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Center Play
Your best shot is to remove the power steering belt and then drive the car for a week or so to see if you like the new set-up. If you do, then remove the pump if you want. You should have two holes in the steering arms, the inner ones for power and the outer ones for manual as this gives you a bit more leverage, making the steering feel a little lighter.
I sell the Borgeson range in Australia and have one of their boxes on my '74 coupe and it steers like my 2010 Holden Cruze. Smooth, easy and predictable. I have sold hundreds of these boxes over the last few years and all of my customers thank me for the vastly improved steering feel they now have.
Several here have fitted R&P kits, but they are more costly, limit access to the oil pan (for removal), and can increase your turning circle. Bump steer has also been mentioned in some of the earlier kits. The Borgeson box uses EVERY part of the steering system that was designed by GM, except for the actual steering box, but even that is a Saginaw/Delphi 600 Series unit.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
I sell the Borgeson range in Australia and have one of their boxes on my '74 coupe and it steers like my 2010 Holden Cruze. Smooth, easy and predictable. I have sold hundreds of these boxes over the last few years and all of my customers thank me for the vastly improved steering feel they now have.
Several here have fitted R&P kits, but they are more costly, limit access to the oil pan (for removal), and can increase your turning circle. Bump steer has also been mentioned in some of the earlier kits. The Borgeson box uses EVERY part of the steering system that was designed by GM, except for the actual steering box, but even that is a Saginaw/Delphi 600 Series unit.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Regards from Down Under.
aussiejohn
Two things, one is that a power steering car with belt removed is much harder to steer than a true manual car.
Second question, since you have lots of experience with Borgeson, my main question is about freeplay. Is the box tight, like a well built Gary Ramadei box, i.e. when driving down the road, how much movement of the steering wheel is there before the car reacts? My original power steering with ALL new or rebuilt components had a good inch of free movement without any movement of the car, and that was with a Gary Ramadei built steering box. That is unacceptable to me, so I want people who have driven these Borgeson setups to tell me how much freeplay is there? With my factory manual setup up, there is minimal freeplay...possibly 1/4 inch max of steering wheel movement without car movement. If Borgeson is this tight, I might consider it when I get too old to push around a manual car.
Last edited by Shovels and Vettes; Aug 28, 2017 at 07:34 AM.
Le Mans Master
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From: McHenry Illinois
My conversion, which is a jeep box(the one Borgeson uses to modify) has virtually no play, I would not want it any tighter than it is now, slight pressure in either direction makes the car follow instantly with complete control.
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From: New Braunfels Texas
I've removed the power steering from my 79, replaced all four ball joints and the tie rod ends. I installed the QA1 550 lb coil overs and plan to set up the steering with 5° of caster and negative 1.5° of camber and zero out the toe. She's almost back together. I'll report what I like and do not like. I'm currently looking into the Jeep box conversion which is why I'm not doing anything with the box. It's maxed out on adjustment so I'll have to make a decision soon. My car does not have the outer holes drilled on the knuckles either. We shall see.