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This is kind of a sister thread to the one I recently posted about tubing size for a mandrel exhaust system. Here I'm asking for advice on the best intake manifold for the following combo. Until today this was not an issue, but when my builder called AFR to order one of their intakes for me he was told that they're being removed from the market due to sealing problems, and the upgraded replacements won't be available until as late as the middle of next year. Too late for me.
As I said in the other thread, even though this is for my avatar car, I trust you guys for advice, and the application is virtually identical to a C3 Vette anyway. The car weighs 3400-3500 lbs, has 4.10 rear gears, and a close ratio Muncie 4 speed. This gives me total gearing of 9 to 1 in first gear, a bit under the ideal of 10 to 1.
The basic engine combo is-
396 CI, AFR 210 heads w/o comp porting, 1 3/4" primary tube headers, modded Holley 750 DP that flows 830 with Barry Grant hand porting/milled choke tower/4 corner idle, Crane HR cam with 234/242 duration @ .050 (advertised 296/304) and lift .548/.558 on a 112. Internals will be totally good for 6400-6500 shift points, limited only by the cam's power curve. They would be good with a healthy shot of nitrous too but I doubt I'd ever use a power adder. I mention that only to show that this won't be a limiting factor.
This is a street car first but, like my other toys, I want it to be as nasty as possible while still being streetable. I'm not interested in debating the merits of more cubes, just how to optimize this combo for my purposes. All intake options will be considered, meaning single plane or dual plane. As always, your experience and advice is much appreciated.
****Updated info- CR is 10.5 and, due to the use of 1.6 roller rockers the actual lift is .585/.595.****
I built a 383 with a Howards Roller Cam and RHS 200cc heads. At first I had a RPM intake and couldn't get it to seal. I was hemming and hawing on the phone with a Jegs sales tech and he suggested the DART SHP dual plane. I cammed the motor to have street manners so the dual plane was a good match and I had the machine match the ports. Using it with a Holley 750 Ultra DP and have zero complaints. Fits under the stock cowl hood of my 73 with a LT-1 Air Cleaner.
I built a 383 with a Howards Roller Cam and RHS 200cc heads. At first I had a RPM intake and couldn't get it to seal. I was hemming and hawing on the phone with a Jegs sales tech and he suggested the DART SHP dual plane. I cammed the motor to have street manners so the dual plane was a good match and I had the machine match the ports. Using it with a Holley 750 Ultra DP and have zero complaints. Fits under the stock cowl hood of my 73 with a LT-1 Air Cleaner.
Thanks for the info. I did see that intake on their website but they just don't provide much info about their products. I was planning to call them tomorrow to discuss. I'll bet your 383 really gets it done!
And thanks for the comment at the bottom. Damn near missed it.
I've posted this before....but it's applies. 400", 11.0 compression, Dart 200 cc as cast heads, 248* SR. The Team G intake is short but did very well as did the Dart dual plane. We've now got that Team G on a 388" in a '65 Vette. It's got a different 248* SR and 215 cc as cast Dart heads. 3.36 gears and a Muncie wide ratio was great...would idle away from a light and pull 7000+ without a sweat. He just put 3.70's under it. I haven't ridden in it yet but he says it "came alive"!! (It definitely wasn't a slug before)
You can see the Team G single plane made more peak TQ and HP, made a large spread between Peak TQ/HP and hangs on great after peak HP. It was out of the box with a 750 Street HP Holley.
It's a short little dude but works well.
JIM
Last edited by 427Hotrod; Oct 4, 2017 at 02:01 AM.
Awesome, thanks Jim. I knew I forgot some info- my CR will be 10.5.
Team G is an intake I've looked at before but forgot today until you mentioned it. I'll definitely look into it. I'm going to ask what is probably a stupid question- what does "WCFB's" stand for? I'll kick myself for not figuring it out but I'm going to play the "I'm fried because it's late" card and hope that flies.
This is kind of a sister thread to the one I recently posted about tubing size for a mandrel exhaust system. Here I'm asking for advice on the best intake manifold for the following combo. Until today this was not an issue, but when my builder called AFR to order one of their intakes for me he was told that they're being removed from the market due to sealing problems, and the upgraded replacements won't be available until as late as the middle of next year. Too late for me.
All of their composite "Titon" intakes are being removed from the market? I thought they solved the leak issues in 2012?
This is a street car first but, like my other toys, I want it to be as nasty as possible while still being streetable. I'm not interested in debating the merits of more cubes, just how to optimize this combo for my purposes. All intake options will be considered, meaning single plane or dual plane. As always, your experience and advice is much appreciated.
I found the links below helpful when I was trying to design my 383 (which isn't done yet). I was planning on going with AFR's dual plane intake, the Titon DPR. I guess I'll have to change my plans ...
I would suggest you go with one of the shorter single plane intakes for your build. They all will need ported to get the most out of your heads.
If throttle response is a concern go with a annular booster carburetor.
IMOP
Good luck,
Dave
This is kind of a sister thread to the one I recently posted about tubing size for a mandrel exhaust system. Here I'm asking for advice on the best intake manifold for the following combo. Until today this was not an issue, but when my builder called AFR to order one of their intakes for me he was told that they're being removed from the market due to sealing problems, and the upgraded replacements won't be available until as late as the middle of next year. Too late for me.
As I said in the other thread, even though this is for my avatar car, I trust you guys for advice, and the application is virtually identical to a C3 Vette anyway. The car weighs 3400-3500 lbs, has 4.10 rear gears, and a close ratio Muncie 4 speed. This gives me total gearing of 9 to 1 in first gear, a bit under the ideal of 10 to 1.
The basic engine combo is-
396 CI, AFR 210 heads w/o comp porting, 1 3/4" primary tube headers, modded Holley 750 DP that flows 830 with Barry Grant hand porting/milled choke tower/4 corner idle, Crane HR cam with 234/242 duration @ .050 (advertised 296/304) and lift .548/.558 on a 112. Internals will be totally good for 6400-6500 shift points, limited only by the cam's power curve. They would be good with a healthy shot of nitrous too but I doubt I'd ever use a power adder. I mention that only to show that this won't be a limiting factor.
This is a street car first but, like my other toys, I want it to be as nasty as possible while still being streetable. I'm not interested in debating the merits of more cubes, just how to optimize this combo for my purposes. All intake options will be considered, meaning single plane or dual plane. As always, your experience and advice is much appreciated.
I know this is not your question, but thought I'd throw this out for consideration. The car is running 4.10 gears and a four speed.....why run a 230 degree hr? I'm thinking for you, a solid roller about 250 degrees and Vic Jr.
Right now I'm running a solid Isky flat tappet cam 254@.050 and RPM intake,...with 3.70 gears. Will pull 7000 rpms as it sits. Plan to go to 4.10 gears, put my 210 Eliminators on, and swap back on my Vic Jr.
In my opinion the 406 I run is streetable....but not everybody likes the fenders shaking at idle like I do.
Les get ahold of Jeremy at afr on the titans he has some interesting info
whats your definition of streetable you got the cubes so dont need to crutch it for tq.
You have the non comp 210s?
Les get ahold of Jeremy at afr on the titans he has some interesting info
whats your definition of streetable you got the cubes so dont need to crutch it for tq.
You have the non comp 210s?
I called AFR yesterday and talked to an unknown tech. Nice enough but he was not exactly a wealth of info. I'll call today and ask for Jeremy- thanks. Yes, just the regular 210s. My builder is definitely telling me to go with a single plane. Streetable means I'm not fighting it while driving through town in traffic. With a Muncie close ratio, first gear is only 2.20 so I think the cam choice will give me enough torque off the bottom and still hit hard to well above 6000 RPMs. I hope that gives you a feel for what I'm looking for.
Awesome, thanks Jim. I knew I forgot some info- my CR will be 10.5.
Team G is an intake I've looked at before but forgot today until you mentioned it. I'll definitely look into it. I'm going to ask what is probably a stupid question- what does "WCFB's" stand for? I'll kick myself for not figuring it out but I'm going to play the "I'm fried because it's late" card and hope that flies.
Those are the old Carter carbs used on a gazillion GM products. In this case they were the original carbs on the 283/270 2x4 setup we were replacing with the 400". We welded/ported the poor little intake for all it was worth (could have gone more but we were scared of cracking). We knew the engine would ultimately end up with that package so we wanted to test it. I was with him the other day...it's still running strong and sounds wicked.
There's been various versions of what WCFB stood for. I had always heard “wrought cast four barrel” or "white cast four barrel" but the prevailing thought now is it's named the Will Carter Four Barrel (Will Carter is the inventor who started the Carter Carburetor Company).
jeremy is the one you want to talk to....he will take the time and set you straight, curious to see what he has to say
Or call Mamo hes close by
Id be tempted to run more cam and a single plane you can get away with it have your cake and eat it too.
Some guys balk but solids are fine for an occasional driver & Rhoads lifters do what they advertise also just a thought.
If you do a Team G youll want to port it..made a noticeable difference even on my "wimpy" 383
I found the links below helpful when I was trying to design my 383 (which isn't done yet). I was planning on going with AFR's dual plane intake, the Titon DPR. I guess I'll have to change my plans ...
Those links are very helpful. I'm still picking through the info.
As suggested by cuisinart, I talked to Jeremy at AFR. He flat said that he recommends the Victor Jr. for me, or something similar, and closed the door on the Titans. They are done making composite intakes but will offer a new line of intakes somewhere around the 1st quarter of next year.
This is kind of a sister thread to the one I recently posted about tubing size for a mandrel exhaust system. Here I'm asking for advice on the best intake manifold for the following combo. Until today this was not an issue, but when my builder called AFR to order one of their intakes for me he was told that they're being removed from the market due to sealing problems, and the upgraded replacements won't be available until as late as the middle of next year. Too late for me.
As I said in the other thread, even though this is for my avatar car, I trust you guys for advice, and the application is virtually identical to a C3 Vette anyway. The car weighs 3400-3500 lbs, has 4.10 rear gears, and a close ratio Muncie 4 speed. This gives me total gearing of 9 to 1 in first gear, a bit under the ideal of 10 to 1.
The basic engine combo is-
396 CI, AFR 210 heads w/o comp porting, 1 3/4" primary tube headers, modded Holley 750 DP that flows 830 with Barry Grant hand porting/milled choke tower/4 corner idle, Crane HR cam with 234/242 duration @ .050 (advertised 296/304) and lift .548/.558 on a 112. Internals will be totally good for 6400-6500 shift points, limited only by the cam's power curve. They would be good with a healthy shot of nitrous too but I doubt I'd ever use a power adder. I mention that only to show that this won't be a limiting factor.
This is a street car first but, like my other toys, I want it to be as nasty as possible while still being streetable. I'm not interested in debating the merits of more cubes, just how to optimize this combo for my purposes. All intake options will be considered, meaning single plane or dual plane. As always, your experience and advice is much appreciated.
The seal problem arrises from the bottom pice not sealing to the plastic above the china wall..
They have a new bottom but are in limited supply to those that already have the intake,,, I was a test bed, and I have a extra newly modded bottom plate if you want to do the AFR thing still... I love my AFR, it works so good that the water in the thermostat housing does not heat up as fast as the heads, thus needs a few holes in it for small bypass so the thermostat will open at the proper time. an near perfect port matching.
I am fuel injected, thus can use a single plan manifold, you on the other hand are still using a carb, and have a lower RPM range than I do, thus I would suggest the duel plain AFR intake.
The seal problem arrises from the bottom pice not sealing to the plastic above the china wall..
They have a new bottom but are in limited supply to those that already have the intake,,, I was a test bed, and I have a extra newly modded bottom plate if you want to do the AFR thing still... I love my AFR, it works so good that the water in the thermostat housing does not heat up as fast as the heads, thus needs a few holes in it for small bypass so the thermostat will open at the proper time. an near perfect port matching.
I am fuel injected, thus can use a single plan manifold, you on the other hand are still using a carb, and have a lower RPM range than I do, thus I would suggest the duel plain AFR intake.
Thanks for the info but Jeremy wouldn't sell me a Titon of any kind for my engine. I'm disappointed but it is what it is. Their new line could be out as soon as January or as late as March. If things drag on long enough on my build I'll check back with him for an update.
SBC stroker intake manifold choice
