Alignment Gurus. Need to Increase Positive Camber
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,230
Likes: 984
From: Wauconda IL
Alignment Gurus. Need to Increase Positive Camber
Since I lowered my C3, about 1.5* right hand and 1.7* negative left hand side. Would like to get it a little closer to 0* AND keep as much positive castor as possible. Car does corner very well now, and at speed (60 mph plus) I can turn the steering wheel about a 1/4 of an inch before I get a response. Any ideas? First photo is RH side.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 516
Likes: 72
From: Modesto California
You increase caster by removing a front shim and adding a rear shim to maintain ABOUT the same camber (it does change a little bit). What is your caster set to right now? I set mine to an even 2-1/2 degrees and my camber to ZERO (straight up and down).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 598
Lift both wheels off the ground and more the steering wheel back and forth.
Check there is no play in the rag joint,
then check the pitman arm to steering box,
then move down to the power steering control valve (if you have power steering)
Without the car running you will see play in the joint in the power steering control valve. With the engine running it will tighten up.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,057
Likes: 421
From: BC
It looks to me that by lowering the front end you have created a whole new problem. The lowering has increased negative camber so much that you have run out of adjustment. In your first photo of the right side of the car there are no shims left in the front bolt and enough to give you proper (or some) caster in the rear so you can't reduce the negative camber anymore without reducing caster dramatically. The left side has a bit more adjustment left but it looks to have been set to about equal or mimic the right side settings as there is no point going past what you can do on the right side. I believe that by lowering the front you have gone past an alignment or adjustment problem and it is now a geometric problem. Basically, you have run out of adjustment room.
Last edited by CanadaGrant; Oct 9, 2017 at 11:57 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,057
Likes: 421
From: BC
Last edited by CanadaGrant; Oct 10, 2017 at 12:14 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,422
Likes: 591
From: McHenry Illinois
Moog K6104 available at all your favorite parts suppliers. I used them on mine and slotted the bolt holes 1/4" and slid them to the rear for more caster too.
Last edited by '75; Oct 10, 2017 at 05:46 PM.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 516
Likes: 72
From: Modesto California
Since I lowered my C3, about 1.5* right hand and 1.7* negative left hand side. Would like to get it a little closer to 0* AND keep as much positive castor as possible. Car does corner very well now, and at speed (60 mph plus) I can turn the steering wheel about a 1/4 of an inch before I get a response. Any ideas? First photo is RH side.
Why do you want more caster? Are you planning on running it at the Bonneville salt flats?
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,230
Likes: 984
From: Wauconda IL
It looks to me that by lowering the front end you have created a whole new problem. The lowering has increased negative camber so much that you have run out of adjustment. In your first photo of the right side of the car there are no shims left in the front bolt and enough to give you proper (or some) caster in the rear so you can't reduce the negative camber anymore without reducing caster dramatically. The left side has a bit more adjustment left but it looks to have been set to about equal or mimic the right side settings as there is no point going past what you can do on the right side. I believe that by lowering the front you have gone past an alignment or adjustment problem and it is now a geometric problem. Basically, you have run out of adjustment room.
I suspected that was the case, I just needed confirmation of my suspicion. I've already ordered the Moog kit.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,230
Likes: 984
From: Wauconda IL
Hey '75, might you explain how you went about slotting them? I'm considering doing that also as long as I have to replace the shafts.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,422
Likes: 591
From: McHenry Illinois
My first plan was to weld up the original holes and re-drill them 1/4" to the front, but the weld was harder than the shaft and the drill walked around to much. I bought another set of the moog shafts and just used a carbide burr on a die grinder to slot them, the shafts are somewhat soft and grind easily. A machine shop would have an easy time slotting the holes with a milling machine. There are old threads here where others have done it, but the pictures may be gone due to the Photobucket scam.
Last edited by '75; Oct 10, 2017 at 07:04 PM.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 516
Likes: 72
From: Modesto California
My first plan was to weld up the original holes and re-drill them 1/4" to the front, but the weld was harder than the shaft and the drill walked around to much. I bought another set of the moog shafts and just used a carbide burr on a die grinder to slot them, the shafts are somewhat soft and grind easily. A machine shop would have an easy time slotting the holes with a milling machine. There are old threads here where others have done it, but the pictures may be gone due to the Photobucket scam.
So why did you feel you needed more caster? Are you driving it in excess of 250 mph?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,422
Likes: 591
From: McHenry Illinois
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 598
Another option could be these. The bushing in these a-arms units have no flex so you get great handling response.
http://www.spcalignment.com/componen...AFrom&to=USATo
The only downside is there is no bumper stops, so you need travel limiting shocks when you lift the car off the ground.
I have these on my 78. I can get any alignment setup you require.
I have set 0 camber with 4.8 caster without problems and using no shims at all.
I usually add shims between street and track use. Street no shims, track use I add shims.
Also note changing camber will change the toe settings, so once you get your desired camber / caster setup you will be required to adjust toe again.
http://www.spcalignment.com/componen...AFrom&to=USATo
The only downside is there is no bumper stops, so you need travel limiting shocks when you lift the car off the ground.
I have these on my 78. I can get any alignment setup you require.
I have set 0 camber with 4.8 caster without problems and using no shims at all.
I usually add shims between street and track use. Street no shims, track use I add shims.
Also note changing camber will change the toe settings, so once you get your desired camber / caster setup you will be required to adjust toe again.
Last edited by cagotzmann; Oct 11, 2017 at 12:29 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,990
Likes: 183
From: Port St. Lucie Fl
I lowered my car and put globalwest arms on it and had the same problem. Rather than do anything mentioned above I had my frame pulled out so I could get the alignment right. Before i lowered mine the top of the wheel well arm measured over 29" from the ground. My car had been wrecked before and going this route gave em the piece of mind knowing the frame is ok and the car now sits like it should have when new.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 38,360
Likes: 2,085
From: California
Since I lowered my C3, about 1.5* right hand and 1.7* negative left hand side. Would like to get it a little closer to 0* AND keep as much positive castor as possible. Car does corner very well now, and at speed (60 mph plus) I can turn the steering wheel about a 1/4 of an inch before I get a response. Any ideas? First photo is RH side.
Go with a Borgeson Joint and throw the Rag joint in the trash! Also don't know if the 12:1 Manual Steer Flaming River Steering boxes are still available and you might consider going to Heim/sphericals instead of the conventional tie rod ends to make it all tighter! Actually compared to other people's cars, 1/4 in of play isn't bad at all!
Last edited by TCracingCA; Oct 12, 2017 at 02:01 AM.