Taijutsu

Forum: I didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. The pluses of a fresh create engine is all brand new parts hopefully assembled right and a warranty.

Now comments are being made that some do not hold up and need to be rebuilt. If the create engine comes off the same place the installed engine does, why is it the create engines have some problems?

Do we push them harder and the faults come out?
Do the engines come from a different line?

I have heard big name engine builders comment on bearings being off and cyl bores needing a .040 bore job to straighten out the cylinders.

I'm hearing the same thing about aftermarket heads. They come w/faults that need to be corrected before being used!

I'm thinking the smart move might be buy a complete engine unassembled, and let a pro assemble everything?

I do think that getting a turn-key installation can solve a lot of problems! Having things done by one shop should stop the "It's not my fault." excuses. Hopefully they stand by their work?

R

Gordonm

Not all crate engines are built equally. That goes for "Pro built" engines also. Do your homework. Some crate engines you can beat the crap out of and they hold together. I have seen some pro built engines last a few minutes. Speed cost no matter what if you want it to stay together.

drwet

I am hearing many horror stories about GM factory crate engines. These things are being assembled in Mexico and the quality control is, to say the least, suspect. If you're looking at a crate engine, look to the aftermarket. There are a number of engine builders around with excellent reputations. I will let others make the recommendations as my experience is limited. But I would think twice before buying a GM crate engine these days.

REELAV8R

I think you get what you pay for.

I spent $4000+ on my engine in 2011-12 for complete rebuild with aluminum heads and a roller cam. I didn't go top of the line on parts either. Many of these crate motors are flat tappet engines.
So a $3000 crate motor that produces 400 HP may be using some pretty cheap components.

jef602

I had mine rebuilt to keep numbers , and did sum improvements over stock, but a 383 crate was cheaper. I think if I had to do over original in
the corner crate in the car.

BLUE1972

I have a number of friends and club members who used crate and Blue Print engines with no issues. They do not race / beat on the engines. Proper break-in seams to be the answer.

I rebuilt my 71 matching #, but upgraded to a complete roller setup. No issues but the cost was higher.

If you intend to beat the crap out of it - build one , otherwise the crates are fine. ( I would set a rev -limiter at 5000 - 5400 on a crate)

The last install we did was a GM 383 (Camaro) - runs great, plenty of power and is really smooth..

Taijutsu

Unless the machining is really off.
I'm thinking that careful assembly will solve most problems?

R

HeadsU.P.

Most car buffs don't have the machinery or special tools to turn crank journals, align bore, install cam bearings, check piston to wall clearance, press in piston pins, grind on the rings, etc. So. A simple solution and another route is: Purchase a Shortblock. All the hard work of machining is done for you. Then its just a matter of bolting on the heads, intake, oil pan, starter, etc. You can pick the piston / compression ratio you want and sometimes the cam.

OldCarBum

I purchased a brand name create motor for my 33 hot rod. When it arrived, I opened the create, found the shipping dolly had collapsed and the motor was upside down in the create.
Several parts were broken and or snapped.
The builder and the shipping company battled it out for almost a year to decide who was at fault.
I shipped the motor back for a replacement as they agreed.
When I opened the replacement motor create I found they just repaired the damage, straightened bent parts and shipped the same motor back to me.
Of course I shipped it back and it took another 6 months to get me the replacement motor I was promised.
Never again will I purchase a create motor.

BLUE1972

Always use a credit card for your purchase.

If it arrives damaged or missing parts you can stop payment.

I've done it a few times on things I've ordered for the house and shop.

Waiting almost a year is unacceptable, when they don't get paid they respond sooner.

I've had the pleasure of rebuilding a friends engine that was built by a custom engine "builder". Working on a friends crate install by a "good engine shop" installer.

Unfortunately not all shops and workers are "skilled craftsmen" .


When my air compressor arrived - it looked like it was in a train vs truck accident. Stopped payment had a replacement in 15 days.

Taijutsu

I had one shop do all my work. There was no way someone else could be blamed. I even had them turn down my timing and get it smogged!
It may have cost a little more, but I am happy w/motor.

The craftsmen might do the machining, but who does final assembly?
That is why I am thinking of buying a complete engine kit and have someone skilled locally finish the assembly and installation?
Like many things it comes down to attention to detail!

JMHO

R

OldCarBum

That is what I'm doing this time around.
I researched and found the best performance speed and machine shop in the area. Talked to the owner who took me in the back shop and showed me the work he and his crew do.
The guys in the back have all been employed in the shop for decades, and most still race their own cars.
I would check the advise they gave me with different manufacturers and here on the forum. They were spot on with everything.
I've seen the work they do and motors they build.
I'm having them assemble the bottom end, heads and set up the valve train.

69ttop502

The machine work is the most important baseline to a trouble free, high performance engine. Check the crate warranty carefully. On most I have seen, you will be responsible for all the work getting the engine back to the manufacturer, to may or may not be told you will be covered. The guy who built my engine told me some horror stories of crate motors he has had to deal with. One, from a very reputable outfit was there when mine was. No crates for me. Much better to deal with someone local, who knows you are local and will be back if the engine does not perform or fails. My guy builds a lot of race motors, so either his engines do what they are supposed to do, or he wouldn’t last very long. Do your homework, and find someone local to start a relationship with. Best way to do it IMHO!

PainfullySlow

^ This, spot on. I am doing my own building but I am developing a relationship with my local machine shop who is doing all of the machine work. There is a lot more accountability this way plus most of the time these guys are gearheads anyway so you might just make a friend in the process.

roscobbc

Bearing in mind I am based in the UK buying a crate engine from a USA 'specialist' that later develops issues was always going to be a risk for me. (imagine the shipping costs to return to USA!) Eventually I chose to have a well respected UK based builder source a seasoned block, a new rotating assembly and cam etc have all the machining done with him building and me supplying the top half, i.e new heads, induction and ignition. I paid for a initial run-up and dyno to prove output figures before paying and installed it. Subsequently had some health issues, didn't use the car much for three years (and only managed about 800 miles) Then no. 1 big end failed dramatically. Took the engine back and builder re-ground the crank, replaced a con-rod, dyno'd once more. We came to an agreement on cost of this and split parts and labour 50/50. I was happy enough and two years the engine is running great.

jb78L-82

When I was thinking of updating my OEM L-82 in 2013, I looked briefly at a crate motor but really wanted to keep the OEM L-82 as much as possible and ultimately decided to have the expert builder recommended by many in my area to do the machine work on the bottom end of the motor. We have become friends since then and I know he will and has helped me out on some other car issues I have had with DD even though he does not do that type of work since he strictly does High performance engine and transmission work on strictly GM's for the most part. He told me at the time that crate motors are NOT necessarily the deal some people think for many of the reasons stated here.

I pulled the engine and he came to my house with his pickup for the motor, did all the machine work (boring, JE forged Racing pistons/rings, reconditioned the L-82 rods, reconditioned straightened the L-82 forged crank, resurfaced the flywheel and balanced the clutch to the engine, installed the oil pump/fuel pump, installed the roller cam, painted the motor etc. He brought the assembled short block back to my house, I installed the clutch, AFR heads and valve train gear, everything else and reinstalled the engine. He came back to my house for the initial start up as well.

I used top line parts and all in cost me $5,000+ plus for everything. Well worth it and would do it again. I have zero regrets about not going crate or 383 rotating assembly. Money well spent.....

theandies

I've been running a ZZ4 since 2001. It has about 20K on it and still runs as great as it did when new and believe me I don't baby it at all. Like others have said machine work on a pro build is the key and break-in on any engine has to be done right.
I went crate at the time because I have to really know my machinist and where I was living at the time I didn't know any. If I had lived where I grew up and know a lot of good machinists then I probably would have gone the pro build route.

Taijutsu

I remember years ago reading about how serious long distance RV owners were very picky about getting squared up and straight engines.
Apparently these people were putting serious mileage 100K + on their RVs. Not to mention the cost of gas.
The last thing in the world some retirees want is engine problems on a long trip.
Proper machining prevents a lot of chafe and stiction!

JMHO

R

69Vett

find a proven competent local machinist /motor builder.
If you don't know where to look, go the track and talk to the winning racers.
let him do all the block and machine work, he will not be the cheapest.
you get what you pay for on building and engine.
my machinist says how fast you want to go ? ... this is what you must do.