NewbVetteGuy

Help!

I still don't really feel like I have a full understanding of distributors or ignition timing, so I just want to understand what I SHOULD do when removing my current distributor, switching over to my FIRST intake, and installing my new Vortec-style electronic cam sensor "distributor".

Should I mark the current position of my distributor somehow or does it not matter and I just use some sort of reference marks when installing the new distributor/ cam sensor?


Adam

C6_Racer_X

If I were going to convert to a fully electronic ignition system, I'd go with a distributorless setup. There are a few choices available. MSD has one, and Electramotive has one. There's also a kit from Holley that uses the LSx engine trigger wheel and sensor.

Vortec dizzies are persnickety and there's no way I'd trade a mechanical dizzy for a Vortec setup, even if there was an easy kit for the electronics. BTW, Vortec engines trigger ignition from the crank position sensor, not the cam position sensor in the dizzy.

It will be far easier for you to learn how your existing system works (first) and debug and fully tune that. There's a whole lot of work involved in switching out to a distributorless system or a crank fire system that uses a distributor like the Vortec system. If you don't understand your current system, there's little chance of learning the newer technology because you really, really need to know how the mechanical system works to understand what your doing when you replace it.

NewbVetteGuy

That's exactly what I'm doing.

I went with the Holley HP TPI / Stealth RAM EFI kit, 60-2 crank trigger, coil near plug harness, LS truck coil packs, and then for the cam sync sensor I'm using the "1x Cam Sync Distributor" from EFIConnection.com, which I'm told is a Vortec -style unit with a blank cap on it.
https://www.eficonnection.com/home/p...nd-bbc-engines



My question is not on "what do buy" as I've already purchased everything. My question is on recommendations on how to actually do the swaps and not have the initial timing totally screwed up.


Have any responses to my question?



Adam

calwldlife

turn engine until timing mark is at top dead center and the rotor is pointing to the number 1 spark wire.

C6_Racer_X

I think the instructions for that kit are pretty good. You do need to set the engine at TDC for #1 cylinder. Turn the crank clockwise and line up the marks. Then trace the plug wire for the #1 spark plug back to the dizzy. Take the dizzy cap of and make sure the rotor is pointed at the post for the #1 cylinder. If it's pointed at the post for #6 cylinder, you need to turn the engine one full turn clockwise at the crank. That will line it up with #1 TDC and firing at the dizzy.

Other than that, the instructions look pretty straight forward. You will need spacers for anything belt driven on the engine. The kit only includes a spacer for the water pump pulley. Every other pulley also needs to be relocated forward by 1/8 inch for that kit to work.

danc24

I've got the identical setup only with a BBC. Holley 60-2 crank trigger and the EFI Connections cam sync.

Since the crank rotates twice for every cam revolution, there needs to be a way to let the computer know when you are on the compression stroke. That's what the cam sync is for.

Setting up the cam sync is simple, especially if your balancer has timing marks every 90-degrees. I move the crank to TDC on #1 on the compression stroke. make sure you are on the compression and not the exhaust stroke. Then just rotate the engine backwards 180 degrees. You can actually go anywhere from 120-210? degrees before TDC, but 180 seems to be a safe number and easy to determine with the balancer timing marks.

Once the engine's set to 180 degrees before TDC on the compression stroke, drop the cam sync in and set the shudder right where digital falling would occur.

NewbVetteGuy

I am a newb; I don't understand what "the rotor is pointing" means; is there literally an arrow on the distributor that you just aim at cylinder #1 when it's at top dead center? (reminder: I won't have spark plug wires coming out of the "distributor" because it's just a crank signal pickup.)



Adam

NewbVetteGuy

It's not actually a distributor; just a cam sync signal; there will be no wires coming off of the "distributor" to any spark plugs. There's just a 3 prong plug that goes to the EFI ECU.




I don't understand what "point it" actually means; it's round...


Thanks for the reminder I have the spacers figured out (1/8" thick washers).


Adam

calwldlife

google
https://www.google.com/search?q=dist...iw=838&bih=558

calwldlife

you need to understand that spark timing
needs to happen on what is called compression stroke of 4 cycle engine.
this stroke is done by piston and valves position.

num 1 is where it all starts,
putting engine in that position allows setting the spark timing regardless of whether a distributor or magneto.

before any removal, setting, adjustments the engine needs to be at top dead center compression stroke.

once you have the engine there, work can be done.

you need to read, understand this.

C6_Racer_X

Is the original distributor still on the engine? Or have you removed it already?

NewbVetteGuy

Still on the engine, but I think the current base timing is pretty retarded...


Adam

NewbVetteGuy

I clicked the link; not useful, much like your comment.


Adam

calwldlife

glad you think so.
you are over your head.
good luck, you will need it.

C6_Racer_X

If it runs, it's close enough.

You're needing help with the whole "Turn the engine to position cylinder #1 at TDC at end of compression stroke," I'm guessing.

Here it is in a nutshell.

First, turn the crankshaft (clockwise only) until you line up the timing mark on the harmonic balancer with the "0" mark on the timing chain cover. These are the marks you shoot the timing light at when you're timing the engine. Start with those marks aligned.

Now, follow the wire from the number #1 spark plug back to the dizzy. It's been a while since I had a 1970's chevrolet in my shop, but I think it will go to one of the front posts on the dizzy, slightly to the right (passenger) side. Whichever post it goes to, that's the #1 post on the dizzy. You can put a piece of masking tape or something on top of that wire to mark it for reference.

Lift the distributor cap (loosen all the screws). Under the cap there will be a rotor that looks like this:


The part in the red circle should be directly under the post for the #1 spark plug wire. If it's on the opposite side of the distributor, you're one full turn off on the crankshaft. Turn the crankshaft clockwise another 360 degrees and line up the marks again. That should put the end in the circle under the #1 spark plug wire post.

That's about all there is to it. That positions the engine with cylinder #1 at TDC, and you can go forward from there.

There is a way to align the cam position sensor in it's little dizzy frame that bolts in where the distributor was. The instructions should tell you how to do that properly.

danc24

He's running a DIS (distributorless ignition system). There is no distributor or rotor. The cam sync drops in place of the distributor to drive the oil pump.

Adam, see my first post in this thread. It explains what you need to do. This thread on Holley's website does a good job explaining it as well

NewbVetteGuy

Awesome. Thanks for both replies. Exactly what I needed. I won't worry about marking the position of the old distributor when I take it out.

I've got one of the el-cheapo top dead center finders that screws into the spark plug hole so I think I can do it off of your instructions and the Holley Forum thread helps (although obviously the old photobucket photos are all gone).



Adam

NewbVetteGuy

I totally am over my head and I probably will need it.

If nothing else I'll end up with a funny YouTube video or three.


Adam

calwldlife

a piston stop won't tell you if the cam is 180 deg out.
start your change with a proven
engine position.
num 1 firing is what you want.

C6_Racer_X

You would be wise to read my earlier post. The piston one #1 comes to TDC twice per revolution of the cam shaft (and the distributor). One TDC is the correct position, the other TDC is absolutely the incorrect position.

There's a reason the instructions tell you to position it at TDC on the compression stroke to start this installation. If you put it at TDC on the exhaust stroke, the thing won't start when you finish.

If you pull the distributor out, the other way to determine the correct TDC position is with one of the valve covers removed. The temptation is to remove the left side cover and watch the rockers for cylinder #1, but the easiest way is to remove the right side cover and watch the rockers for cylinder #6.

Oh, and the photobucket photos usually show if you click the broken images and go through to photobucket. The images are still there, they just won't display on other websites.