bobs77vet

if the two short lines are the two TDC spots isn't the long one in the middle the true TDC line? shouldn't that be in the middle of the timing chain pointer index line,

are you going to the most recessed V or to what looks like a stamped line above it?

r16678

I should have explained the long middle line is TDC, the lines above and below are the lines I marked when I spun the motor clockwise and counter clockwise stopping at the piston stop. Thanks

r16678

My distributor is an HEI distributor. Can the HEI module somehow alter the advance, I have the basic one from autozone. I had the distributor checked out as far as mechanical advance and told me it is in good shape no issues.

stingr69

I am satisfied the balancer zero and the timing tab line up. The picture of the timing gears aligned dot-to-dot is #6 top dead center firing position AND #1 top dead center but not firing position. Rotate the crank 360 degrees and the assembly will now be at #1 top dead center firing position, #6 top dead center but not firing position and the dots will both be at 12:00. Distributor can be installed now.

The manual is a little confusing about the rotor position as it would be more precise to say the rotor will rotate on the gears as the distributor drops in and the rotor point needs to ultimately end up pointing between #1 and #8 when the distributor is all the way down on the intake manifold including engagement with the oil pump driveshaft.

It should fire right up.

lionelhutz

Your chain looks right. With the gears dot to dot I believe the dowel pin should be just past the 3:00 position. Really close to 3:00 at any rate and that's what your picture is showing.

The HEI can't be messing up the advance in an unknown way that doesn't show on the timing light. However, is it a new distributor since you did the engine work? Maybe the rotor isn't aligned with reluctor wheel properly and you have to move it to 30+ degrees before it starts passing the spark to the correct plug properly??

MelWff

You cannt set the balancer at 12 BTDC and drop the distributor in with the rotor pointing between cylinder 1 and 8. You either set the balancer at 12 BTDC and drop the distributor pointing at 1 or set the balancer at 0 and drop the distributor pointing between 1 and 8.
When setting initial with the timing light I assume the dial is set to zero.

r16678

Thank you, Please be patient with me but I guess that is where I get confused if I am at TDC 0 and the rotor is pointing between 1 -8 then it will already be past the #1 tower on the distributor cap so I am confused how it will start. Will you please explain what I am missing. thanks again for all the help.

r16678

The distributor is the original distributor. I do not understand the reluctor wheel or how it works. How do I verify reluctor wheel is aligned with the rotor.
thanks

r16678

Thank you, sorry I might sound ignorant but I get the 12 BTDC and pointing to #1 that would put things at 12 degrees prior to hitting the #1 tower which makes sense but I am totally confused on set TDC 0 on balancer and then putting rotor between #1 and #8 tower that seems to be after passing #1 tower. I am trying to understand better, and I appreciate your guidance.

stingr69

No problem.

The fist thing to make sure is that the engine is at #1 TDC FIRING position. The piston can be at TDC but still not be in the firing position. It is either #1 TDC firing position OR #1 TDC EXHAUST position (same as #6 TDC FIRING position). #1 TDC Firing position has both #1 intake and #1 exhaust valves closed at same time.

The ignition normally fires a few degrees before the piston gets to TDC. By the time the piston gets to TDC firing position, The ignition has already fired at the #1 tower a few degrees previously and the rotor is already part way on to the next distributor tower in the firing order which in this case is #8.

bobs77vet

while at TDC on compression stroke of number 1....your distributor will always rotate exactly the same amount when you drop it in.....measure it with blue tape and a sharpie mark....put a sharpie mark at the base of the spark tower for number 1.....then put your blue tape at that mark. take the distributor and put it in pointing at the mark you made when you took it out...it will now align with your number 1 park plug tower when its fully seated

you can also just take it out and walk it back wards until its pointing at your number 1 spark plug tower mark

have you read Lars paper on timing?

r16678

Thank you I have read Lars papers, I tried his steps and did not have luck had to turn my distributor another 20 degrees beyond the 12 degrees initial to get my engine to run. Will go back and look at things again this weekend.

bobs77vet

have you taken the distributor apart and cleaned it? and your mechanical advance is freely rotating and not sticking open?

stingr69

Might help if you think about the initial timing specification.

EXAMPLE - If the setting for the initial timing is supposed to be firing the ignition 10 degrees BEFORE the piston gets to top dead center... you need the rotor and #1 tower perfectly aligned in order to fire..... AND you need it to fire BEFORE the piston gets to the top (because that IS the specification)....the piston is on the way to the top of the stroke but still not there yet, the rotor and tower are perfectly aligned when they fire....so it fires before the piston gets to the top... the piston continues on to the top dead center AND the distributor continues to rotate after the ignition has fired. The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. if you drop a distributor in while the piston is actually at top dead center... the rotor needs to be rotated towards the next cylinder in the firing order by roughly 10 degrees in this example.

The instructions are trying to get the rotor position as close as possible to where it needs to be so you can start the engine and have the initial timing as close as is practical until you can final adjust it with a timing light.

Separate concern - Please verify that the dimple on the bottom gear of the distributor is pointing in the same direction as the rotor tip. If the distributor has ever been taken apart and reassembled with the gear backwards you will have to fix that before continuing.

r16678

yes I took it to the carb shop they also do distributors, they put in on the dial cleaned it and checked it out all out. I also brought them the carburetor, they have a SBC 350 on engine running stand and they attached my carb which fired right up on their engine. The owner came over and checked it also, he was nice enough to look it over and told me stock set up was a bit lean so he richen the jets free of charge, put it back on the shop's motor and it fired right up again. I put the carb back on my car started it up and it will still only run with high advance, the carb shop owner told me that what he was doing would not address the high timing issue.

So I went to bed last night with a major frustration head ache, then I got to remembering that I installed new valve stem seals when I had the engine out last year. I went by all of the published write ups to set the valve lash. I got up early this morning popped off the valve covers and moved the engine to TDC #1 adjusted rocker bolts back for valves that shop manual state should be set at TDC #1, basically gave the push rods just enough play so I could just twist them. Then turned motor over to TDC #6 and did the same procedure for the valves shop manual recommends in that range. I turned the motor over to 12 degrees before TDC #1, made sure I had the rotor pointed to the #1 distributor tower.

And to my absolute delight, the engine fired right up, my wife heard me yelling with joy in the garage. Thank you all for your help and encouragement. Will need to post this to other discussions I jumped on. Thanks again.

OldCarBum

Glad to see you got it figured out.
Enjoy

lionelhutz

Good to hear it's better, but I still wonder about your valve settings. Having the valve set with the lifter plunger bottomed out and then backing the nuts off enough there is just a little slack might still have the valves set too tight.

r16678

Thanks I agree, I got a hold of Lars write up on setting valve lash. Will go back and check them.

Last night I found a new problem, I had a little fuel leak coming from the fuel line to the carb. I can not tell if it is the line fitting into the filter housing or the filter housing into the carb. Oh well another mystery to solve.

derekderek

Don't worry. The car will constantly come up with little details to deal with. As long as it is being nice and not coming up with BIG details.

r16678

LOL yea that is complete true, it keeps me busy and out of trouble so I guess that is a good thing