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Yesterday I drove my 77 at night for the first time.
The thing that instantly attracted my attention was how poor the light was that came from the headlights.
I found it really annoying (and dangerous). Because of that I want to change all my headlights to Xenon halogen lights (NOT HID/ Xenon!)
What is the exact type (link or product number, if possible) of Xenon halogen lights that you guys recommend?
I live in Europe so Sylvania, Philips, ... lights are easy to get around here.
I want to avoid getting into harness mods etc..., just change the lights and be done, if that is possible of course?
Yesterday I drove my 77 at night for the first time.
The thing that instantly attracted my attention was how poor the light was that came from the headlights.
I found it really annoying (and dangerous). Because of that I want to change all my headlights to Xenon halogen lights (NOT HID/ Xenon!)
What is the exact type (link or product number, if possible) of Xenon halogen lights that you guys recommend?
I live in Europe so Sylvania, Philips, ... lights are easy to get around here.
I want to avoid getting into harness mods etc..., just change the lights and be done, if that is possible of course?
Being in Europe look for Hella Euro's or Cibie Halogens. H4 low and H1 highs.
I have been using Hella Euro's on my 78 since 1983 here in the states long before any type of unsealed halogen was allowed in the states. I use a 55/60 Watt H4 in the lows and 100 watt H1 on the highs using a relay for the highs only taking the current off the headlight switch. You will not be able to use 4 55 watt halogens without a relay on the highs at least only.
Yesterday I drove my 77 at night for the first time.
The thing that instantly attracted my attention was how poor the light was that came from the headlights.
I found it really annoying (and dangerous). Because of that I want to change all my headlights to Xenon halogen lights (NOT HID/ Xenon!)
What is the exact type (link or product number, if possible) of Xenon halogen lights that you guys recommend?
I live in Europe so Sylvania, Philips, ... lights are easy to get around here.
I want to avoid getting into harness mods etc..., just change the lights and be done, if that is possible of course?
Do you have sealed beams now? Or ECE spec lens/reflector assemblies with H4 and H1 bulbs?
If you have sealed beams, get Hella or Cibié/Valeo lens/reflector assemblies. There are several Hella part numbers for the low/high beam units, depending on the height from the road to the center of the headlamps. For a C3, you probably need the lowest version. I think Cibié /Valeo only has one part # for the H4 low/high outer position.
Get the Philips Xtreme Vision +130 bulbs, or the Osram/Sylvania Night Breaker Laser +130 bulbs.
How come nobody here buys the projector LED lights?
Because they are not street legal anywhere in the world. They are dangerous, and they are annoying to other traffic.
In Europe, the first point is important because there are safety inspections in many countries.
The second point matters to some folks. I've seen several single car accidents caused by drivers being overconfident or blinded by their own dangerous LED headlights. One I saw from the passenger seat.
install relays to handle the current instead of it going thru the headlight switch.
headlight switch activates the relays, relays get power alternator, that way they get full power thru the old copper wiring.
if you just create more power draw, you may have the headlight switch circuit breaker tripping causing them to cycle on/off.
plenty of posts on here about both of those problems
also check/clean the grounds from the lights.
just putting the relays on my 72 made a big difference, like night n day, my low beam now looked like the high beams..
Last edited by riverracer au; 07-18-2018 at 08:41 PM.
That's not true. My '14 Accord has dual rectangular projector led low beams.
Maybe I should be a little clearer. Since we're discussing a C3 Corvette from 1977, what you have in your 2014 Accord, or what's available in a 2018 Audi is irrelevant. We're discussing upgrades for a 1977 Corvette.
If the car was not originally equipped with "LED projector" headlamps, there is (almost) no legal and safe way to fit LED projector headlamps. There are absolutely no legal (or safe) ways to install "LED headlight bulbs" (or even HID headlight bulbs) in any headlamp lens/reflector assembly which was designed for any halogen bulb. That is 100% illegal everywhere. It's also generally very unsafe and very annoying to other traffic you share the road with.
There are very few safe and legal "LED headlamp assemblies" which include optics and LEDs specifically designed to produce safe and legal low beam and high beam light distribution patterns which can be retrofitted in place of sealed beam units. Some of those barely meet safety specifications. Most don't even bother to try, not even in the United States where manufacturers self certify their compliance with safety standards and DOT regs. I'm only aware of a few choices that are submitted for testing and actually pass ECE (European) standards, and none of those are the smaller 4 lamp setup that fit a C3. The few that I've seen that actually meet safety standards and perform acceptably require modifications to the headlight mounting hardware.
If your car was originally equipped with LED headlamps, and if you maintain those in accordance with the manufacturers repair procedures, then they are legal and they at least meet minimum safety standards for the country where the car was sold.
install relays to handle the current instead of it going thru the headlight switch.
headlight switch activates the relays, relays get power alternator, that way they get full power thru the old copper wiring.
if you just create more power draw, you may have the headlight switch circuit breaker tripping causing them to cycle on/off.
plenty of posts on here about both of those problems
also check/clean the grounds from the lights.
just putting the relays on my 72 made a big difference, like night n day, my low beam now looked like the high beams..
Relays are almost always a good idea. Measuring the voltage at the alternator charge post or battery (or the horn relay stud on the older models with external voltage regulators) and measuring the voltage across the headlamp bulb when the lights are running and the bulb is in the circuit will tell you how much voltage drop (due to resistance) there is in your existing wiring. Ideally, you should see high 13 volt range (13.6 to 14.1) at the alternator or battery when the thing is running, and ideally over 13 volts at the headlamp socket when the bulb is in circuit and shining light. If you're seeing more than 0.6V to 1.0V drop, you'll notice better headlight performance with relays and heavier gauge wiring on the power side of the relay and to the headlight sockets. 12AWG or 10AWG wiring is adequate for the loads presented by most headlights.
Because they are not street legal anywhere in the world. They are dangerous, and they are annoying to other traffic.
In Europe, the first point is important because there are safety inspections in many countries.
The second point matters to some folks. I've seen several single car accidents caused by drivers being overconfident or blinded by their own dangerous LED headlights. One I saw from the passenger seat.
Projector LED headlights are DOT/SAE approved so it has nothing to do with being illegal. The blinding/annoyance part is caused by installing a LED or HID bulb into a halogen reflector housing which is not made for that sort of light and causes unfavourable dispersion of the light beam. Those are the guys whos cars look like they drive with the hi beams on all the time. As long as the LED bulb is situated in a projector housing that has been designed for it, there is no annoyance to oncoming drivers, the beam is focused and has a cut off just like a factory installed HID/Xenon setup would have. I might ditch my stock headlights and install a couple of these where the center bumper grill is.
Projector LED headlights are DOT/SAE approved so it has nothing to do with being illegal. The blinding/annoyance part is caused by installing a LED or HID bulb into a halogen reflector housing which is not made for that sort of light and causes unfavourable dispersion of the light beam. Those are the guys whos cars look like they drive with the hi beams on all the time. As long as the LED bulb is situated in a projector housing that has been designed for it, there is no annoyance to oncoming drivers, the beam is focused and has a cut off just like a factory installed HID/Xenon setup would have. I might ditch my stock headlights and install a couple of these where the center bumper grill is.
Projector LED headlights are DOT/SAE approved so it has nothing to do with being illegal. The blinding/annoyance part is caused by installing a LED or HID bulb into a halogen reflector housing which is not made for that sort of light and causes unfavourable dispersion of the light beam. Those are the guys whos cars look like they drive with the hi beams on all the time. As long as the LED bulb is situated in a projector housing that has been designed for it, there is no annoyance to oncoming drivers, the beam is focused and has a cut off just like a factory installed HID/Xenon setup would have. I might ditch my stock headlights and install a couple of these where the center bumper grill is.
There is no such thing as "DOT/SAE approved" lighting.
In the United States, the DOT and NHTSA publish safety standards. It is up to the manufacturer of vehicle lighting products to certify that their products are compliant with the applicable standards and regulations. Manufacturers self certify and do whatever testing they feel is necessary to ensure compliance. There are penalties for making false certifications, but the government doesn't test or approve anything.
When a manufacturer self certifies their product as compliantwith US safety standards and regulations, they place certain markings on their lamp assemblies. The assembly in the picture you posted lacks the compliance certification marks required by law. If you get stopped with that lamp on your vehicle (car or motorcycle), you could get a ticket for an equipment violation. I'm highly doubtful that the lamp assembly in your picture is safe or legal for use on public roads.
For reference, a DOT compliant (certified by the manufacturer) LED headlight for "universal" application (replaces a sealed beam unit) looks like this:
Note the markings highlighted by the red arrow. Those signify that the lamp is DOT compliant and follows SAE best practices, and Identify the type of lamp, "HL11". No DOT letters and bulb type designation = not actually certified as DOT compliant.
Also, since @Novusuhu lives in Europe, the rules and procedures are different in Europe. The regulatory markings on the headlamps there will be an "E" and a number in a circle. The number specifies which country did the testing and certification. In Europe, samples are actually submitted for testing, either to the government transportation authority or to an independent laboratory contracted by and/or approved by the government. There are other important regulatory markings on the headlamp lenses for European use. Hella and Cibié/Valeo are reputable and will have all the required markings.
Yes it does...actually Harley has them standard on all their newer touring bikes
Genuine Harley Davidson LED headlights are DOT compliant and meet federal safety standards. They also carry DOT markings. Here's a close up of one I just grabbed from the Harley-Davidson.com web site:
The ones pictured above are not genuine Harley Davidson parts, they are cheap Chinese knock-offs, and they lack the regulatory markings and are therefore very unlikely to meet safety standards.
Yesterday I drove my 77 at night for the first time.
The thing that instantly attracted my attention was how poor the light was that came from the headlights.
I found it really annoying (and dangerous). Because of that I want to change all my headlights to Xenon halogen lights (NOT HID/ Xenon!)
What is the exact type (link or product number, if possible) of Xenon halogen lights that you guys recommend?
I live in Europe so Sylvania, Philips, ... lights are easy to get around here.
I want to avoid getting into harness mods etc..., just change the lights and be done, if that is possible of course?
Can we get off the DOT/EPA/SAE bandwagen now? Holy crap......I think the point has been made!
I'll say this one time.....If I listened to what the DOT/SAE rules stated back in 1983 when I installed the 4 Hella Euro halogens still on my 78 C3 today, I would have missed out on some of the best light output ever for years until the DOT decided in the 90's that non sealed halogen bulbs were legal to use on the road.
I will also add that some of the worst lights ever put on cars today with cheap plastic lenses, reflectors, and housings are DOT/SAE approved and are absolutely horrible at putting useful light on the road in front of a vehicle. Higher end car maufacturers put some excellent quality lights on their cars today but MANY MASS market vehicles have lights that are simply awful AND they are DOT/SAE approved. Take that for what it is worth!
Similar looking from the front, but completely different from what was posted earlier. Those Oracle lights are actually one of the few LED headlight systems I'd consider in the states. Those are legal on public roads where USDOT compliant lights are allowed (USA, Canada, Mexico, a few other locations around the world).
The ones I've ridden behind have looked fairly good for US spec lighting. They are comparable to early (mid 2000's) HID lights for US cars, say comparable to the C6 stock lights with fresh bulbs and clear (new) lenses.
The down side to the Oracle lamps is the back. They have a huge heat sink on the back, and you have to make significant modifications to your "buckets" (cutting away a lot of metal) to get them to fit.
Those won't help @Novusuhu because they aren't certified and approved by any European country.
Originally Posted by jb78L-82
Can we get off the DOT/EPA/SAE bandwagen now? Holy crap......I think the point has been made!
I'll say this one time.....If I listened to what the DOT/SAE rules stated back in 1983 when I installed the 4 Hella Euro halogens still on my 78 C3 today, I would have missed out on some of the best light output ever for years until the DOT decided in the 90's that non sealed halogen bulbs were legal to use on the road.
I will also add that some of the worst lights ever put on cars today with cheap plastic lenses, reflectors, and housings are DOT/SAE approved and are absolutely horrible at putting useful light on the road in front of a vehicle. Higher end car maufacturers put some excellent quality lights on their cars today but MANY MASS market vehicles have lights that are simply awful AND they are DOT/SAE approved. Take that for what it is worth!
Just to be fair here........................
I'm actually with you on the European spec lighting. I have Euro lights in two of our driver's now. I'm also looking for Euro spec lighting assemblies for a third car we aren't driving now, but will be soon. The only thing I have with US spec lighting is a Jeep Commander (WK model), and it has brand new headlamp assemblies with upgraded HIR (halogen) bulbs in it (bulbs slightly modified to fit the 9006/9005 receptacles.
European spec lights do provide a much better distribution of light on the road. They are not entirely illegal in the USA. If you have Canadian tags, you can drive anywhere in the USA with ECE spec lights on your car, as they are legal in Canada and Canadian citizens can drive their cars freely anywhere in the USA. As long as you have the proper halogen bulbs in ECE lamps, I doubt you'll ever get pulled over for them. A lot of low beam ECE lamps now carry USDOT markings as well, as it's possible since 200x, maybe before that, to make a beam pattern for a low beam that meets the photometric requirements of both sets of regulations.
The opening poster, @Novusuhu, probably must have ECE certified and approved (European) lighting for his Corvette as he lives in Europe. Even if USDOT spec lighting is allowed (because the car is an "antique" or something and gets a waiver where he lives), I'd still put Cibié/Valero lamp assemblies in the thing, or Hella if Cibié/Valero isn't available (I'm pretty sure Hella is the only choice for the outers, and Cibié/Valero H1 inner high beam units are available). I'd also go with the best bulbs available from Philips (Xtreme Vision +130) or Osram/Sylvania (Night Breaker Laser +130). The ECE lamps put out a much better distribution of light on the road than USDOT spec lights, and with todays best bulbs, they perform quite well, as you are no doubt aware.
My point earlier in this thread is that the lamps being presented by some (Chineseum "LED projectors" from various Amazon vendors) aren't even good enough for the manufacturer to certify that they meet US safety standards for (IMO poor, barely adequate) lighting performance.
07-18-2018, 07:02 PM
From original headlights to Xenon halogen
