I hate to dumb this down, guys. And I hate to return to a subject that has been addressed to no end, but you seem to know a lot about your stereos. So...

How do you guys keep the noise out of the system? I've done systems in my steel bodied cars, and never really had an issue. But this Vette is driving me nuts. I mounted my amps on a board, and ran all the signal wires away from the power wires. I have inline noise filters. I have a solid ground on my engine. The amps are wired directly to the battery. My plug wires are the radio-suppression type. I've tried different cables as well as strategically placed metal, to block the static, but nothing has worked. All my tinkering has actually had zero effect. This prevents me from even narrowing down what it could be. Also, I notice no difference between CD and tuner. They are both noisy as hell. I've also switched noise filters and ground loop isolators, all to no avail.

So I still have a crazy amount of noise in my system. I don't even listen to it.

Any suggestions?

 

Mime all Alpine except for Boston acoustic speakers, under $800.00 professionally installed and plenty of storage in back. Go to my website and hit interior pics, ALPINE goes with Corvettes!!

 

Joe,

Corvettes are a royal PITA when it comes to Hum. Steel bodied cars offer
great EMI Rejection Chareteristics that Corvettes do not offer. This is the
reason they used all that Pretty Chrome Sheilding around the distributors
it wasn't for looks :)

The easist way to introduce noise into the amplifiers is to run a ground longer
than 6" So if you have grounds that run all the way to the battery I say nix
that idea right now. Re do your Amp grounds making them as short as possible.

Try and ground directly to the frame if you can (yeah that might mean cutting
a hole through the floor if none is near by)

As for the Head Unit experiment with different line filters, you may need one
on both sides of the loop, ground and hot. And you may also need to replace
all your Signal leads (RCA's) With "Ballanced" type. A Ballanced RCA will have
a mesh braiding over each signal line that terminates into a lead at each
end of the RCA that you ground to the chasis of the Amp and Head unit
respectively.

You can get that hum out of the system. It will just take some time.

 

Twin,

Those are pretty... Measure thier Specs vs. the Scan Speak Revelator and
I betcha the Revelator Mid outperforms it.. Granted the Revelator's aren't
cheap at $300.00+ per Mid.. But that sure as heck is cheaper than 10 Grand...

Merge that with a pair of Vifa Concentric Phase Plug, Edge Wound Tweets
and good Seperate Amplification with Active Crossover Networks (rather
than Passive) and I am certain that "cheaper" speakers can outperform
those showy speakers.

 

I have the test report somewhere and those speakers were the absolute best in all test cases amongst the european car audio mags. I'll have to lookup the specs but they're all hand made from billet alloy.

Here's a quote:
______________________________________
autohifi 2/1999 - Germany


Take my Breath Away - Editorial
The story of a technlcal editor's life is about greater or smaller dlfferences, Things that take your breath away are just as unusual for the Staff of a hi-fi magazine as they are for any other working person. Yet sometimes they do happen. Technical editor Alexander Bloch's story starts on 18th December 1998, with him appearing completely flabbergasted in his colleagues' offices and asking them to come to auditlon some speakers.
Nothing had been heard about the Gerrnan loudspeaker manufacturer Rainbow for quite some time. Car hi-fi fans were wondering if the loudspeaker makers from Bad Rappenau had reached the limits of feasibility with the cult loudspeakers, the CS230P or the CS360P. Now Rainbow gives the answer, "Reference Line" is the name of the brand new top system. The tltle "reference", used by numerous manufacturers for their own products, proved in the autohlfi test to be sheer understatement. The acoustic quanties of the 160mm two-way loudspeaker put all previous speakers so clearly in the shade that the autohifi rankings had to be completely rewritten. All loudspeakers except subwoofers were relegated by two classes in order to be able to document the lead that the new super speaker has over them. That is to say that what was hitherto ranked absolute top class is from this issue on top class, division two, and what was top class, division two, is now middle class, division , one and so on. This does not mean that these speakers have got any worse. Just the standards have changed. And who is responsible for this loudspeaker revofution? The man's name is Siegfried Feil and he is known throughout the trade as a top rank loudspeaker designer. Together with Rainbow boss and ideas man Paul Jelko, he has really come up with a winner with the Reference Line. Uncompromising sound, finish, technology, design features - this loudepeaker takes everything to the limits. I am honoured to pass on the congratulations from the staff at autohifi.
Before I forget - there's just one small snag. Feil and Jelko have created one more superlative with the Reference Line: one of the most expensive Hi-fi components in the world. A loudspeaker system for DM 10,000 a pair. Alexander Bloch finishes the story on page 56 of this edition.

In a class of its own
Modern Times
Even if by now there are well over a hundred firms supplying car hi-fi accessories, products which cause turmoil among the entire staff of autohifi tends to be the exception. And even if a fair number of expensive to wickedly expensive products have gone through the testing process. The high price alone has never been a guarantee of high performance. Consequently, our feelings before acoustic tests varied between anticipation and scepticism at the announement from Rainbow that they were to present a speaker system for DM 10,000. It was with a certain confidence that autohifi had encountered two top-class arnplifiers - after all, the predecessor of Audison's HV Sedici had cut an extremely good figure several years ago. On the other hand, at that time it was not being challenged by an opponent like the Kicker ZR1000. To prove that coaxial speakers can be far more than just a stopgap for standard installatlon cutouts is the intention of Magnat and Soundstream with their highend coaxes, which not only fulfil the conditions for precise imaging but also stand out because ot their superb finish.
Sinsheim, April 1998, Siegfried Feil, Ranbow's head designer and managing director PauI Jelko invited autohifi to a close encounter of a rather speciaI kiACI at their "car+sound" exhibition booth. Like in the fairy tale where there is a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow, the two Rainbow men tempted us, saying they had something rather speciaI, a loudspeaker with such sophisticated production methods and so expensive that tne car hi-fi world had never seen its like". Indeed, the loudspeaker combination that autohifi was shown on that day in April was fascinating enough just on the strength of its outer appearance. Our minds were made up at once: we must report on this speaker as soon as possible. But as is so often the case with outstanding designs, problems of detail put back completion date further and further. The super-speaker almoat seemed to have become a mirage.
But not quite. At the end of November, Sigfried Feil called us to give the green light for the test, "It's ready. When shall we call?" What a question! At once!!
For the premiere of the most expensive car hi-fi loudspeaker in the world, almost the entire staff collected in the office of the deputy editor-in-chief, Alexander Strobel, even a few curious high enders from the domestic hi-fi magazines Audio and Stereoplay just had to come to Stuttgart, and see the new 160mm two-way loudspeaker system, Rainbow Reference Line 260.30. And yes, the 260.30 really is outrageously expensive at DM 9,850, but on the other hand its name is about as showy as the ordernumber of a spare part for a tweeter. But the packaging, in a sleek alurniniurn case with precisely-shaped foam cutouts looks all the better for that - and to stay with the superlatives for a moment - may claim to being the most lavish packaging for a production loudspeaker.
Why have Rainbow put a product like this on the market? After all, in this pricerange the number of potential buyers is severely limited. "First, of all it was the spirit of engineering. That is, we wanted to design something without having to take cost restrictions into account, and secondly, we wanted to demonstrate Rainbow's ability to get results. In a word, it's an image product", explained Feil.
The loudspeaker fanatic had the idea in 1994 when he was experimenting with neodymiurn magnets, this kind of magnet made from rare earth has great field strength and of course drives the high range unit. But of course that is nothing unusual. The tweeter bears the name CAL 30, and at DM2,200 a piece it is by far the moot expensive component. At a weight of 467 grams including the mount. it breaks all records too and could compete with some 130mm midrange units. The reason is the highly-sophisticated production techniques used in manufacturing the two-part housing that is machined from a solid block of aluminium. Feil chose this construction to guarantee highly efficient heat dissipation that ensures that the driving magnet maintains its field strength for years - other neodymium tweeters often gradually lose field strength and thus perforrnance through overheating. Secondly, he wanted to make a sphericaliy curved acoustic baffle, which make a major contribution to ths allround sound radiation of the tweeter. This is not only acoustically useful - it also has looks to kill. The membrane and the oscillating system do not seem to be special at first sight. But here too Feil has Ieft absolutely nothing to chance.
So the optimised interaction betveen volumes under the cone, the air gap and the surround as weli as the soft suspension of the membrane guarantee a very low resonance frequency of c. 850 Hertz (Q factor 0,7) and optimum response time and die-out behaviour. ln addition, the membrane of the 25mm cone has a thin coating which nevertheless stiffens it. ln a word, a dream of a tweeter and a feast for the eyes, hands and - so much in advance for the ears. And so that the Reference tweeter can handle any installation situation, it is supplied with a solid alurninium skeleton for flush mounting.
The 160mm low to mid-range W160Reference unit does not need any such aids - altoough they cost DM850 each, six conventional screws are sufficient for fixing. Yet from in thefront or the rear it has an incredible number of fascinating features. The membrane made of Air-dried paper, for instance - still an excellent material for the membrane - almost passes for standard. By contrast, everything else in this combination is unique, despite a superficial resemblance of existing products. For instance, the membrane is stiffened and damped by a special mineral/talcum mixture developed by Feil that keeps partial osciliation of the membrane in check. A real monster of a neodymium magnet fairly catapults the voice coil out of the air gap. And FeiI has not left the shape of the magnet to chance either, but has created a polepiece aperture with lateral holes to reduce wind noise, and an exponentially shaped "tube" (optimally adapted to radiation resistance). To avoid compression effects detrimental to acoustic quality that are produced by conventional dust-protection cones, Feil made use of an open system with a ventilated inside spider and a phase plug. That is what the **** in the middle of the membrane is called; it does not interfere with the phase response but offers ideal conditions for the emitted air currents and slightly linearises the impedance. Concentrated German chassis technology, then, that only serves one purpose: to produce as little resonance as possible. The dot on the i in the installation instructions that could easily pass as a reference book on the subject of installation, Feil notes the actually measured Thiele-Small parameters for every individual woofer. Selecting them in pairs then goes without saying.
Crossovers are still the poor cousins in the car hi-fi field - even upmarket chassis often have to make do with inadequate components. Even in DM1,000 systems, mundane bipolar electrolytic capacitors or thinwired coils are found in the serial branches. The crossover in the Reference speakers present components from a differennt universe.
They simply contain the best there is on the market. And if as in the case of the capacitors, nothing conventional is good enough for Feil, he simply designs them him self.
Thus in the rigorously symmetrical 12 decibel crossover (two coils or capacitors for the treble and bass range each forrn one component), there are wickedliy expensive vacuum-impregnated and zero ohm coils and a treble frequency stranded inductor, foIlowed by combined polypropylene-teflon-styroflex capacitors and high precision manganin foil resistors that look like Iittle transistors. All connected up with high grade Kimber PR4 !oudspeaker cable - at only 2000 hertz the paths of the high and low range speakers are thus separated in particulary luxurious fashion. The low crossover frequency usually guarantees smooth and soIid midrange response and - with the wide separation betweenen upper and Iower frequency range that is usual in the car hi-fi field -is quite simply advantageous with regard to frontstaging. In order to be able to adapt the system to various acoustic conditions in the car, the connections, which are suitable for bi-amping, offer high and low terminals so that the mid range and high range level can be slightly modified. That the solid, silver-coloured housing looks like an amplifier is no accident as the generously proportioned cooler is intended to guarantee identical thermic conditions for all cornponents. According to Feil, this achieves identical operating points and even ageing. Finally, copper cladding protects the superior components from interference. He really has thought of everything.
On the test bench, which, at Feil's express request, we only turned to after the audition, the Rainbow Reference System out a very good figure. Apart from very slight waviness, the frequency response is consistently linear and the radiation performance is among the best autohifi has ever tested. The sensitivity of 86 decibels and the maximum volume of 106 decibels at 90 hertz also gave no cause for complaint. So now we come to the all important question; what does this dream machine sound like? After all, Feil had answered this question with understatement typical of a designer: "We're getting somewhere with the imaging." Very cool!
But to the audition; no louospeaker, however expensive it is, gets around the autohifi cross-check against reference equipment. A one-to-one comparison, of course, because that is the only way to largely exclude subjective factors in judging the sound.
The only decent reference competitor for the Rainbow was easlly established after listening for only a few moments: MB Quart's excellent 160rnm two-way system 218.60Q. The very good sounding Q system has served the staff here for almost a year as a monitor when testing radios and as an acoustic yardstick for comparing loudspeakers. Very well-balanced, crisp and with an extremely lively tweeter with definition that has often shown up the weaknesses of CD players, the Quart was played first.
The big moment was approaching, irrespective of the price of just under DM10,000, could it possibly be any better? A gentle click indicated that we had switched over to the Rainbow Reterence System. For a few seconds it was completely silent in the studio, only Tori Amos' beguiling voice to be heard from the CD "Little Earthquakes". Head technical editor, Dirk Waasen was the first to break the silence with a rhetorical question: "Can the Rainbow really sound so much better?" Yes! Not just that the Rainbow opened up a tonally different world, or that the deeper-ranging reflex bass made the desisive difference. No, what this system joyfully demonstrated was impressive atmosphere, airiness and particularly transparency. lt almost seemed as if the Rainbow system was transcending the deliberately small dimensions ot our monitoring studio.
By contrast, the Q system that had hitherto always seemed so lively now sounded rather duII. A cross check - not completely serious in intent - with a top-class l system gave the testers a litle chuckle. Alright, alright, we were only checking.
Even the slightest smacking of the singer's Iips was so vividly represented in space that the valiant Q could only capitulate unconditionally. But this is no disgrace, for it is no exaggeration if autohifi says that in the rniddle and upper range this louospeaker need fear no competion even from the domestic hi-fi field.
The Rainbow system proves everyone wrong who claims there are loudspeakers for individual types of music. No matter what the super system was fed with, it was simply a supematural delight to listen to: the electric live atmosphere on the jazz CD "Fresh Blues" where the Rainbow made the applause die away so infinitely gently, or the super-dynamic drum-and-bass pieces of the autohifi Velocity CD, which were given unbelievable drive by the Rainbow. Only cheaply produced dance floor samplers should not be played over these membranes at any price if you do not want to find out promptly and bluntly about the inadequacies of the recording. The proud owner of the Reference system should give a lot ot thought to the choice of a suitable amplifier and cable. The Reference 260.30 - truly analytical in the best possible sense - dernands well-balanced and slightly warm-sounding companions. The autohifi test crew got excellent results with the gentle and high definition DLS-SCP cable (tested in autohifi 5/98; verdict top class) and the Audison HV Sedici THK, which simply sounds beautiful: an outsanding combination of high definition and musicality. lf you prefer things a little tighter and crisper, the Brax X2000 could be the amplifier of choice. But hands off the Pioneer CD tuner in combination with a big Brax amp together with the Reference Line: overwhelming detail or not, in the long run this will become tiring.
To forestall all the moaners: yes, the Rainbow Reference System is unbeliavably expensive. Yes, the chassis does not fit in Euro-norm cutouts. But be honest, which happy buyer wlll care about that? He will hopefully place fitting in experienced hands and afterwards simply listen to a car hi-fi revolution.
What we have not mentioned yet; after ranking the Rainbow Reference 260.30 in the absolutely highest category, all loudspeaker combinations tested up to now are relegated two categories. But their sound has not changed, only the standard.
________________________________________ _________________

I've never heard or seen them in person but these are said to be by far the ebst things out there, granted they should be at that price.

Marck

 

Mark,

A very nice component set for sure and a very good read. Though I am still
not sold on them being the best out there. That amount of money is nothing
short of obscene and I am sure there are "affordable" speakers that can
easily compete.

Granted this is not a "Car Audio" application but check out this Full Range
Single Driver and it's specs and it's price is $1200.00 per pair.. And I am
willing to wager this is a superior "driver" (though like I said, Not for car
Audio Applications)

When I scratch build myself a set of Folded Horns for my Home Theater
THESE are the drivers I will use, One single full range driver. No seperate
tweeter no seperate mid and no seperate woofer needed. :)


The Manger Bending Wave Transducer ( A Thing Of Beauty!) http://www.e-speakers.com/products/manger.htm

 

The best sound system for a C3 is the engine and exhaust. None better. :)

tom...

 

Damn right. I only have a system in my slow beater. I have to listen to the Vette, if I can't hear the car, I can't adjust my driving if I can't hear what the car is doing.

 

Wow, that's an impressive little bugger [:)]

Folded horn? You mean like a snail's house? Wow, that will be so cool :D Aren't they commercially available over there? Here in Europe those types of setups are available (price will be hefty though)

How about a plasma driver :D

Marck

 

Ohh yeah Numerous Horn setups are available in the US some that come
to mind are Advant Garde and Cassabe (well not really a horn but a single
point source dynamic driver) and there are numerous horns available BUT
at a VERY high price.. I am willing to spend 10K on a 61" Plasma Screen (and
in a few weeks I will be!) But I will never spend 10K or more on a speaker
not when I can DIY and have less than a grand in drivers and less than
a few hundred in raw materials. Just build them according to someone else's
plan or just "Klone" existing high end speakers and you save yourself a ton
of money.

That's primarily why I am not into "Flashy" drivers because usually you are
paying for just that, Flash... Gold Plated Phase Plugs (why?) 24 Karat Unobtanium
Triple Super Duper Under Edge Wound Voice Coils, Kevlar, Kryptonite Cones
well you get my point! :)

 

What a great bunch of info! Now just to come up with something suitable for my needs! :crazy:

 

The best sound for your vette is a set of Chamber exhaust system with headers.

Seriously, not sure what kind of system you are looking for. In regards to recievers, I think Kenwood has the best bang for the buck. Sony is nice also but you pay a little extra for the name. If you listen to the radio, look for FM Sensitivity (lower number the better). I look for 9.3 dBf or less. Then look for CD Signal-to-Noise Ratio. Higher number is better. I look for 100 dB or better. Finally, look for power. Look at RMS power, not peak power. 20 RMS watts per channel or more is reasonable.

For speaker, keep them all from the same manufacturer. Look for Sensitivity (higher then number the better). It determines how much power a speaker needs to generate sound. If one speaker can generate the same amount of sound with less power, it will be louder and cleaner sounding. Pioneer will be the cheaper route. Infinity is usually crystal clean and very detailed sound. Sometime they lack the warmth and bass. Polk appears to be the happy medium and is very popular. I would put a 10" sub in your center storage bin. Build two 6x9 boxes for the rear corners and use an adapter plate for the front speakers so you can use "separates" a mid-range woofer/tweeter combo with internal cross-over.

I would call of write to Crutchfield (1-800-955-3000) and get their catalog, it is excellent. They are very helpful also!

Good luck. Keep us posted on what you do and how it turns out!