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Do you prefer a rag joint or u-joint on the steering coupler. I would think that a rag joint would have less vibration in the steering wheel. but I see a lot of cars using the u-joint as in the pic. and is the u-joint designed to be a direct replacement for the rag joint meaning are they the same length ? thanks jp
Rag joints will absorb some vibration, especially with borgenson style steering boxes where the PS pump is involved (unlike the c3 box) but are meant for straight alignment shafts and not meant to deal with angles or shafts that are not co-linear. U-joints are transmit more vibration (and feel) and deal with angled shafts but again they must be co-linear
My $.02, maybe Shea has/had input
(BTW, it was my understanding that the borgenson box was slightly angled to the c3 steering column and that a u-joint was required, but that might depend on the box and how it mounted)
M
Rag joints will absorb some vibration, especially with borgenson style steering boxes where the PS pump is involved (unlike the c3 box) but are meant for straight alignment shafts and not meant to deal with angles or shafts that are not co-linear. U-joints are transmit more vibration (and feel) and deal with angled shafts but again they must be co-linear
My $.02, maybe Shea has/had input
(BTW, it was my understanding that the borgenson box was slightly angled to the c3 steering column and that a u-joint was required, but that might depend on the box and how it mounted)
M
Jim Shea is a proponent of the original GM rag joint, but most available today have modified that design. He is critical of those.
I have a U-joint on my Borgeson conversion.
I prefer a rag joint over a single u-joint in the steering system, especially if you have rubber body mounts. During hard cornering, the body moves relative to the chassis. With a single u-joint there is no accommodation in the system to allow for the movement between the steering column and the steering box.
One way to minimize the relative movement is by using poly body mounts. I've ran both body mounts and I prefer the rubber ones due to NVH issues. After I switched back to the rubber mounts from poly, during an HPDE the body moved enough to rub my oversized aluminum driveshaft cutting 3 grooves in it, and I had to switch back to a stronger but smaller steel driveshaft to gain an extra 1/4" of clearance. If there is no capacity in the system to accommodate this relative movement, then something in the system is going to take additional load, which may or may not result in premature wear of bearings/bushings somewhere in the steering.
Now of course, if you just cruise in your vette, this probably won't be an issue.
I prefer a rag joint over a single u-joint in the steering system, especially if you have rubber body mounts. During hard cornering, the body moves relative to the chassis. With a single u-joint there is no accommodation in the system to allow for the movement between the steering column and the steering box.
One way to minimize the relative movement is by using poly body mounts. I've ran both body mounts and I prefer the rubber ones due to NVH issues. After I switched back to the rubber mounts from poly, during an HPDE the body moved enough to rub my oversized aluminum driveshaft cutting 3 grooves in it, and I had to switch back to a stronger but smaller steel driveshaft to gain an extra 1/4" of clearance. If there is no capacity in the system to accommodate this relative movement, then something in the system is going to take additional load, which may or may not result in premature wear of bearings/bushings somewhere in the steering.
This is essentially the point that Jim Shea made in his papers.
Jim Shea is a proponent of the original GM rag joint, but most available today have modified that design. He is critical of those.
I have a U-joint on my Borgeson conversion.
I have read the Shea paper but also feel that the u joint might be a good solution when it is difficult to perfectly align the box and the shaft. How is your u-joint holding up with the Borgeson and did you notice any difference in steering assistance, return to center and/or other drivability aspects? I had the Borgeson installed in my C3 and around 300 miles later the rubber disc is already coming apart.
Jim Shea is a proponent of the original GM rag joint, but most available today have modified that design. He is critical of those.
I have a U-joint on my Borgeson conversion.
I have read the Shea paper but also feel that the u joint might be a good solution when it is difficult to perfectly align the box and the shaft. How is your u-joint holding up with the Borgeson and did you notice any difference in steering assistance, return to center and/or other drivability aspects? I had the Borgeson installed in my C3 and around 300 miles later the rubber disc is already coming apart.
I'm not 100% sure about this, so please don't crucify me.....I thought that I heard, once, that the rag joint, and it's related hardware, provide the "ground" for the horn circuit, so it's something to consider.
I have read the Shea paper but also feel that the u joint might be a good solution when it is difficult to perfectly align the box and the shaft. How is your u-joint holding up with the Borgeson and did you notice any difference in steering assistance, return to center and/or other drivability aspects? I had the Borgeson installed in my C3 and around 300 miles later the rubber disc is already coming apart.
I just had my Borgeson rag joint completely fail today (tore at both connection points). To make this even worse, my '74 has a collapsible shaft, which made install of the Borgeson unit and rag joint a lot easier (no cutting), but when the rag joint failed, it allowed the shaft to start to collapse pulling the bolts through the torn rag joint ultimately separating the two parts of the joint creating a situation of almost no steering ability. The way the rag joint is designed, even if it fails the other two pins allow you to still have steering - unless the two parts are allowed to separate because of the collapsible shaft like mine did, then you are SOL and saying prayers!
Luckily this all occurred while leaving the parking lot (of an auto parts store of all things). So, I wasn't in any danger, but it could have been very bad if that happened in a corner driving down the road. I think I'm switching to a U-Joint as I know it will not fail.
11-29-2018, 09:41 PM
Do Prefer a Rag joint or u-joint ?
