Electrical Engineering Question-Alternator & the Battery
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 106
From: Cortlandt Manor NY
Maybe smarter minds can make sure I wired everything correctly. Fitech EFI, dual electric fans, MSD, electric fuel pump. Upgraded the alternator to CS144, upgraded wire from starter to alternator. I ran a 2 gauge wire direct from battery to a junction box in the engine bay. Anything that needed direct connection to battery (MSD, EFI, etc) I hooked to this junction box. From this junction box I ran a line to a relay to another jumper box that goes live when cranking and start. This junction box I hooked up the smaller trigger wires for these devices that need it. Sounds good or would I get noise in the first junction box? It should be the same as connecting direct to battery in the back, no?
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
Maybe smarter minds can make sure I wired everything correctly. Fitech EFI, dual electric fans, MSD, electric fuel pump. Upgraded the alternator to CS144, upgraded wire from starter to alternator. I ran a 2 gauge wire direct from battery to a junction box in the engine bay. Anything that needed direct connection to battery (MSD, EFI, etc) I hooked to this junction box. From this junction box I ran a line to a relay to another jumper box that goes live when cranking and start. This junction box I hooked up the smaller trigger wires for these devices that need it. Sounds good or would I get noise in the first junction box? It should be the same as connecting direct to battery in the back, no?
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,152
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Well, the battery will have quite a few milliohms or of internal resistance, it really depends on the battery and it's condition. For example, a brand new Optima group 78 battery is spec'd as having 0.003 ohms of resistance. I'd guess that a typical in use battery has a much higher internal resistance, possibly 10-30 milliohms or more. It's next to impossible to find the impedance of a battery which includes any capacitance or inductance it also has.
A piece of 2 gauge wire 8' long should have about 1 milliohm of resistance. The inductance of this piece of wire is around 2 micro-Henries.
Based on resistance, the voltage at the solenoid end of the wire simply doesn't change much compared to the voltage change at the battery. 200A (high for a starter current draw) would cause a 0.6V drop (and most likely more) at the battery and a 0.8V drop at the solenoid.
Using inductance, 200A switching in 1mS would cause a 0.4V drop across the wire. I have no idea what it would cause at the battery, but I suspect a battery has as much if not more inductance, especially something like a Optima battery with the cells wound in coils since coils are inductors.
So, I just don't believe any claims that the resistance of the short piece of wire from the battery to the solenoid makes a huge difference in the noise levels compared to the levels at the battery. Technically, the short wire run only makes a small difference and any properly build car electronics should be able to operate just fine connected to the solenoid. GM built many millions of cars with the power for the whole car connected at the solenoid. There is a very good reason that audio people use huge film capacitors as filters on their systems - it's because the battery is a very poor filter.
Now, having said that, doesn't Derale say that the warranty will be void if you don't connect directly to the battery? That would be a good reason to connect directly to the battery regardless of technical reasons to do so or not do so.
A piece of 2 gauge wire 8' long should have about 1 milliohm of resistance. The inductance of this piece of wire is around 2 micro-Henries.
Based on resistance, the voltage at the solenoid end of the wire simply doesn't change much compared to the voltage change at the battery. 200A (high for a starter current draw) would cause a 0.6V drop (and most likely more) at the battery and a 0.8V drop at the solenoid.
Using inductance, 200A switching in 1mS would cause a 0.4V drop across the wire. I have no idea what it would cause at the battery, but I suspect a battery has as much if not more inductance, especially something like a Optima battery with the cells wound in coils since coils are inductors.
So, I just don't believe any claims that the resistance of the short piece of wire from the battery to the solenoid makes a huge difference in the noise levels compared to the levels at the battery. Technically, the short wire run only makes a small difference and any properly build car electronics should be able to operate just fine connected to the solenoid. GM built many millions of cars with the power for the whole car connected at the solenoid. There is a very good reason that audio people use huge film capacitors as filters on their systems - it's because the battery is a very poor filter.
Now, having said that, doesn't Derale say that the warranty will be void if you don't connect directly to the battery? That would be a good reason to connect directly to the battery regardless of technical reasons to do so or not do so.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 3,556
From: Fernandina Beach FL
2023 Restomod of the Year finalist
2020 C3 of the Year Winner - Modified
Maybe smarter minds can make sure I wired everything correctly. Fitech EFI, dual electric fans, MSD, electric fuel pump. Upgraded the alternator to CS144, upgraded wire from starter to alternator. I ran a 2 gauge wire direct from battery to a junction box in the engine bay. Anything that needed direct connection to battery (MSD, EFI, etc) I hooked to this junction box. From this junction box I ran a line to a relay to another jumper box that goes live when cranking and start. This junction box I hooked up the smaller trigger wires for these devices that need it. Sounds good or would I get noise in the first junction box? It should be the same as connecting direct to battery in the back, no?
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
I have a considerable amount of add ons- here's how I did it-
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Ok... a little off subject... but I just don’t understand why in the hell anyone still runs brushed fans?!?!?
100 yo technology...
the new brushless fans draw 1/4 the power, produce little to 0 efi.....
1/4 the weight... and 1/2 as loud...and 100% computer controlled speed...
100 yo technology...
the new brushless fans draw 1/4 the power, produce little to 0 efi.....
1/4 the weight... and 1/2 as loud...and 100% computer controlled speed...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 459
From: Lititz PA
Ok... a little off subject... but I just don’t understand why in the hell anyone still runs brushed fans?!?!?
100 yo technology...
the new brushless fans draw 1/4 the power, produce little to 0 efi.....
1/4 the weight... and 1/2 as loud...and 100% computer controlled speed...
100 yo technology...
the new brushless fans draw 1/4 the power, produce little to 0 efi.....
1/4 the weight... and 1/2 as loud...and 100% computer controlled speed...
John
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
I run the Delt pag brushless fans
https://deltapag.com/
I road race a 650hp 427 sbc in my C3
I use 1 delta pag fan and it keeps it cool at 100* outside temps while running 4,000-7,000rpm laps for up to 30-45 min continues runs.. that and 2 hour canyon runs through the mountains with average rpms at 4500 PUSHED smoking C7’s
in 100* plus temps... the radiator I run is a Dewitt’s HD LARGE 2 core unit (not the same as there standard unit most get)
Here here is a cut and past :
Brushless Motor
Figure 1:
The brushless motor is the heart of the fan. It is constructed using high temp/high strength Neodymium magnets, hybrid ceramic bearings, stainless steel flux ring & multi-stranded "Litz" windings. The motor is very power dense, allowing for smaller construction, while generating high power. The operating life is conservatively rated at 30,000 hours. Please note, a typical brushed motor fan is rated at 2,000 hours. Brushless DC (BLDC) motors offer several advantages over brushed DC motors. BLDCs are lighter and more efficient than conventional brushed motors, therefore reducing the energy consumption of the vehicle. As a result, Saving Gas! The elimination of brushes in a BLDC significantly increases motor reliability, reduces noise, reduces heat and increases efficiency due to the elimination of friction between the brushes and the commutator. Brushed DC motors have a typical efficiency of 70-75%, while a brushless DC motor can achieve 96% efficiency, a +28% improvement. While a brushed motor operates, sparks are created when the brushes rub against the commutator, this creates a fire hazard and produces EMI. BLDCs generate no sparks and significantly reduce interference emissions allowing for easier compliance with electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) requirements. Most modern vehicles incorporate computer controls in engine management and other general vehicle operations. Reducing electromagnetic interference (EMI) is critical for proper vehicle operation. The BLDC motor has permanent magnets and flux ring which rotate around a fixed armature or stator, eliminating the problems of connecting current to the moving armature via brushes. The stator consists of a multiphase copper coil windings (U V W in figure 1) on a laminated core, and the rotor consists of permanent magnet segments or a molded ferrite ring that is attached at one end to the motor’s shaft. The stator windings are fed with electric currents controlled in magnitude and sequence (commutated) with pulse width modulation (PWM) to effect rotation of the rotor element just as in a typical brushed motor. Back-electromagnetic force (BEMF) is used for rotor positioning. This eliminates the need for hall sensors chips in the motor to identify the rotors position. These sensors are prone to burning out which limit the reliability of a motor. Since there are no sensors in our motor, the BLDC motor is called "sensor-less". This "commutation" is controlled by the electronic control module (ECM). All brushless motors require an ECM for operation.
Electronic Control Module (ECM)
The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is constructed using Grade-0, Hi-Rel & Mil-Spec integrated circuits. Only the highest quality components are used to ensure reliability and high power throughput. The module is vacuum epoxy encapsulated using thermal conductive resins to promote heat dissipation and waterproofing. Its small, modular design allows for easy replacement. The estimated operating life is 6000 hours.
The electronic control module (ECM) replaces the brush/commutator assembly of the brushed DC motor, which continually switches the phase to the windings to keep the motor turning. The rotors position need to signal the ECM to determine the start of the next phase. Some BLDC motors (not ours) use sensor chips in the motor. Senor chips prone to burning out which will cause an early failure of the motor. Our motors signaled the rotors position using Back-Electro-Magnetic-Force (BEMF). BEMF works on the 'law of induction', or more specifically Lenz's law, which says that the magnetic field of any induced current opposes the charge that induces it. BEMF (sometimes called the counter electromotive force) can be detected by measuring the current flowing through each coil as the motor rotates. BEMF signals are need by the control processor to identify the rotors position vs. the stator and determine when to engage the next phase. The ECM is specially programmed to use these signals to run the motor efficiently. The controller performs these timed power distribution by using a solid-state circuit rather than the brush/commutator system. The controller needs to be placed in close proximity to the motor to properly calculate PWM based on the motor's position. All BLDCs require an electronic controller for operation.
The Fan
The axial fan impeller uses airfoil design that have a round leading edge, a sharp trailing edge, and in profile or cross section, look similar to a teardrop that has been flattened on one side. As air approaches the blade’s leading edge, the stream splits and travels above and below the blade. Air is deflected across the convex curve along the top of the blade and along the flat or concave curve on the bottom of the blade, and flows downward over the sharp trailing edge as it leaves the blade. According to Bernoulli’s Principle, faster moving air across the top of the blade creates less pressure than the slower moving air on the bottom of the blade. This creates lift in an airplane wing or airflow in an impeller. Airfoil impellers function just like a series of small airplane wings attached to a hub, with one notable exception. In axial fans, the airfoil’s twisted design ensures that the incident angle between the airfoil and the airflow is constant along the blade length, giving a uniform blade loading for high efficiency, low noise fans. The airflow of an axial-flow fan should be evenly distributed over the working face of the fan wheel for improved efficiency. This means that the axial air velocity should be the same from hub to tip. The velocity of the rotating blades are not evenly distributed as you move out from the hub. The speed of the blade is low near the center and increases toward the tip. To even the airflow, this should be compensated by a twist in the blade, resulting in larger blade angles near the center hub and smaller blade angles toward the tip. At high static pressures, the blade twist is important, because without it, the inner portion of the blade will stall and permit reversed airflow, which, will seriously reduce the fan efficiency. Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) techniques can provide the fan design. The simulation results give the pressure drop across the fan, velocity contours over the fan blades, and path lines of air as it flows past the fan. It also shows the pressure contours and wall shear stress contours on the blade surface, helping to understand which regions face high pressure and which regions face high shear. CFD results can also provide valuable information that will help optimize the design. Changing the geometries of the blades and several iterations using CFD analysis, an optimal design is reached that improves efficiency using:
Self-Cooling Technology
Focused Convection Cooling Ducts (FCCD
Heat significantly reduces the efficiency and operating life of a motor. Brushless motors typically operate cooler than conventional brushed motor due to the elimination of commutator/brush friction. Common to both BLDC and Brushed motors is the presence of copper magnet wire coils found on the stator or armature. When electrical current passes through these coils a magnetic field is generated allowing for the rotor to operate. Heat is generated in the copper coils due to electrical resistance. In addition, high ambient temperatures increase electrical resistance in the stator’s copper windings, requiring more electricity to generate the same magnetic field. The increased electrical current generates even more heat. This creates a potential of thermal runaway, where the increase in temperature causes a further increase in temperature, leading to burnout of the coils and destruction of the motor and other critical components. The permanent magnets found in the motor reduce their magnetic flux at high temperatures. In addition, at very high temperatures, or the magnets curie temperature, the magnet will start to demagnetized. After the temperature drops below this value, it will not behave as it did before it reached that temperature. The stator will need to consume more electrical current producing a stronger magnetic field to off-set the weaker magnets. Reducing the permanent magnets magnetic strength decreases the efficiency of the motor and adds to the probability of thermal runaway. Adequate cooling is critical to maintain the motor's high efficiency and curtailing thermal runaway from destroying critical components.
Cooling via Forced air convection for both the BLDC and ECM:BLDC Motor Cooling:
A small centrifugal fan found in the hub facilitates the BLDC to dissipate heat. Heat is dissipated though the means of convection via forced air flow through the brushless DC motor. The centrifugal impeller is located in front of the motor and before the axial impeller blades. The centrifugal impeller draws air in from the rear of the motor, away from the heat exchanger. Air then passes between the stator and magnets affectively cooling both. The air exits from the front of the motor through openings in the hub. This design results in the following: first, cooler air is supplied by drawing air furthest away form the heat exchanger. Second, the centrifugal fan found in the front of motor rotates during operation draws air through the cooling ducts. In addition, lower static pressure is created between the axial fan and the heat exchanger during the axial fan's operation aids in the flow of air.
Electronic Control Module (ECM) Cooling:
The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is placed on the edge of the shroud on a flat base plate. The ECM contains several critical components that operate the fan. It contains the brushless motor controller, heat sink, speed control, on/off fan switch (connects to vehicle's computer) and connectors. The heatsink is mated to critical, high electrical current & high temperature integrated circuits (ICs) By separating the motor and controller, the heat generated by the stator does not transfer over to the controller and vise versa. There by reducing the operating temperature of the controller and extending its operation. In addition, cooling the ECM is further facilitated via forced air convection cooling. The focused convection cooling ducts (FCCD) further decreases operating temperature. Air will flow past the heat sink, through the FCCD and through the shroud. Air enters furthest away from the heat exchanger and vehicle’s heat source. As a result, air that is focused past the heat sink fins will be cooler and allow the controller to operate at lower temperatures. Air flow through the FCCD is facilitated via the static pressure created by the main axial fan during operation. This design affectively cools the component for efficient and reliable operation. In addition, situating the ECM in this mannar reduces the air flow consumed and reduces the area obstructed to cool the ECM vs other controller cooling designs. PCB design, component placment, heatsink, module construction techniques, coupled with the FCCDs to facilitate critical electronic component cooling expand the operating life of the ECM.This allows for direct replacment in high temperature, underhood applications where higher efficinecy, longer life, lower EMI and higher performance is desired.
https://deltapag.com/
I road race a 650hp 427 sbc in my C3
I use 1 delta pag fan and it keeps it cool at 100* outside temps while running 4,000-7,000rpm laps for up to 30-45 min continues runs.. that and 2 hour canyon runs through the mountains with average rpms at 4500 PUSHED smoking C7’s
in 100* plus temps... the radiator I run is a Dewitt’s HD LARGE 2 core unit (not the same as there standard unit most get)
Here here is a cut and past :
Brushless Motor
Figure 1:
The brushless motor is the heart of the fan. It is constructed using high temp/high strength Neodymium magnets, hybrid ceramic bearings, stainless steel flux ring & multi-stranded "Litz" windings. The motor is very power dense, allowing for smaller construction, while generating high power. The operating life is conservatively rated at 30,000 hours. Please note, a typical brushed motor fan is rated at 2,000 hours. Brushless DC (BLDC) motors offer several advantages over brushed DC motors. BLDCs are lighter and more efficient than conventional brushed motors, therefore reducing the energy consumption of the vehicle. As a result, Saving Gas! The elimination of brushes in a BLDC significantly increases motor reliability, reduces noise, reduces heat and increases efficiency due to the elimination of friction between the brushes and the commutator. Brushed DC motors have a typical efficiency of 70-75%, while a brushless DC motor can achieve 96% efficiency, a +28% improvement. While a brushed motor operates, sparks are created when the brushes rub against the commutator, this creates a fire hazard and produces EMI. BLDCs generate no sparks and significantly reduce interference emissions allowing for easier compliance with electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) requirements. Most modern vehicles incorporate computer controls in engine management and other general vehicle operations. Reducing electromagnetic interference (EMI) is critical for proper vehicle operation. The BLDC motor has permanent magnets and flux ring which rotate around a fixed armature or stator, eliminating the problems of connecting current to the moving armature via brushes. The stator consists of a multiphase copper coil windings (U V W in figure 1) on a laminated core, and the rotor consists of permanent magnet segments or a molded ferrite ring that is attached at one end to the motor’s shaft. The stator windings are fed with electric currents controlled in magnitude and sequence (commutated) with pulse width modulation (PWM) to effect rotation of the rotor element just as in a typical brushed motor. Back-electromagnetic force (BEMF) is used for rotor positioning. This eliminates the need for hall sensors chips in the motor to identify the rotors position. These sensors are prone to burning out which limit the reliability of a motor. Since there are no sensors in our motor, the BLDC motor is called "sensor-less". This "commutation" is controlled by the electronic control module (ECM). All brushless motors require an ECM for operation.
Electronic Control Module (ECM)
The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is constructed using Grade-0, Hi-Rel & Mil-Spec integrated circuits. Only the highest quality components are used to ensure reliability and high power throughput. The module is vacuum epoxy encapsulated using thermal conductive resins to promote heat dissipation and waterproofing. Its small, modular design allows for easy replacement. The estimated operating life is 6000 hours.
The electronic control module (ECM) replaces the brush/commutator assembly of the brushed DC motor, which continually switches the phase to the windings to keep the motor turning. The rotors position need to signal the ECM to determine the start of the next phase. Some BLDC motors (not ours) use sensor chips in the motor. Senor chips prone to burning out which will cause an early failure of the motor. Our motors signaled the rotors position using Back-Electro-Magnetic-Force (BEMF). BEMF works on the 'law of induction', or more specifically Lenz's law, which says that the magnetic field of any induced current opposes the charge that induces it. BEMF (sometimes called the counter electromotive force) can be detected by measuring the current flowing through each coil as the motor rotates. BEMF signals are need by the control processor to identify the rotors position vs. the stator and determine when to engage the next phase. The ECM is specially programmed to use these signals to run the motor efficiently. The controller performs these timed power distribution by using a solid-state circuit rather than the brush/commutator system. The controller needs to be placed in close proximity to the motor to properly calculate PWM based on the motor's position. All BLDCs require an electronic controller for operation.
The Fan
The axial fan impeller uses airfoil design that have a round leading edge, a sharp trailing edge, and in profile or cross section, look similar to a teardrop that has been flattened on one side. As air approaches the blade’s leading edge, the stream splits and travels above and below the blade. Air is deflected across the convex curve along the top of the blade and along the flat or concave curve on the bottom of the blade, and flows downward over the sharp trailing edge as it leaves the blade. According to Bernoulli’s Principle, faster moving air across the top of the blade creates less pressure than the slower moving air on the bottom of the blade. This creates lift in an airplane wing or airflow in an impeller. Airfoil impellers function just like a series of small airplane wings attached to a hub, with one notable exception. In axial fans, the airfoil’s twisted design ensures that the incident angle between the airfoil and the airflow is constant along the blade length, giving a uniform blade loading for high efficiency, low noise fans. The airflow of an axial-flow fan should be evenly distributed over the working face of the fan wheel for improved efficiency. This means that the axial air velocity should be the same from hub to tip. The velocity of the rotating blades are not evenly distributed as you move out from the hub. The speed of the blade is low near the center and increases toward the tip. To even the airflow, this should be compensated by a twist in the blade, resulting in larger blade angles near the center hub and smaller blade angles toward the tip. At high static pressures, the blade twist is important, because without it, the inner portion of the blade will stall and permit reversed airflow, which, will seriously reduce the fan efficiency. Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) techniques can provide the fan design. The simulation results give the pressure drop across the fan, velocity contours over the fan blades, and path lines of air as it flows past the fan. It also shows the pressure contours and wall shear stress contours on the blade surface, helping to understand which regions face high pressure and which regions face high shear. CFD results can also provide valuable information that will help optimize the design. Changing the geometries of the blades and several iterations using CFD analysis, an optimal design is reached that improves efficiency using:
- Flow uniformity
- Evenly distributed pressure from hub to tip to prevent reverse flow (see figure 5)
- Locations of potential cavitations and noise generation
- Fan performance curves
Self-Cooling Technology
Focused Convection Cooling Ducts (FCCD
Heat significantly reduces the efficiency and operating life of a motor. Brushless motors typically operate cooler than conventional brushed motor due to the elimination of commutator/brush friction. Common to both BLDC and Brushed motors is the presence of copper magnet wire coils found on the stator or armature. When electrical current passes through these coils a magnetic field is generated allowing for the rotor to operate. Heat is generated in the copper coils due to electrical resistance. In addition, high ambient temperatures increase electrical resistance in the stator’s copper windings, requiring more electricity to generate the same magnetic field. The increased electrical current generates even more heat. This creates a potential of thermal runaway, where the increase in temperature causes a further increase in temperature, leading to burnout of the coils and destruction of the motor and other critical components. The permanent magnets found in the motor reduce their magnetic flux at high temperatures. In addition, at very high temperatures, or the magnets curie temperature, the magnet will start to demagnetized. After the temperature drops below this value, it will not behave as it did before it reached that temperature. The stator will need to consume more electrical current producing a stronger magnetic field to off-set the weaker magnets. Reducing the permanent magnets magnetic strength decreases the efficiency of the motor and adds to the probability of thermal runaway. Adequate cooling is critical to maintain the motor's high efficiency and curtailing thermal runaway from destroying critical components.
Cooling via Forced air convection for both the BLDC and ECM:BLDC Motor Cooling:
A small centrifugal fan found in the hub facilitates the BLDC to dissipate heat. Heat is dissipated though the means of convection via forced air flow through the brushless DC motor. The centrifugal impeller is located in front of the motor and before the axial impeller blades. The centrifugal impeller draws air in from the rear of the motor, away from the heat exchanger. Air then passes between the stator and magnets affectively cooling both. The air exits from the front of the motor through openings in the hub. This design results in the following: first, cooler air is supplied by drawing air furthest away form the heat exchanger. Second, the centrifugal fan found in the front of motor rotates during operation draws air through the cooling ducts. In addition, lower static pressure is created between the axial fan and the heat exchanger during the axial fan's operation aids in the flow of air.
Electronic Control Module (ECM) Cooling:
The Electronic Control Module (ECM) is placed on the edge of the shroud on a flat base plate. The ECM contains several critical components that operate the fan. It contains the brushless motor controller, heat sink, speed control, on/off fan switch (connects to vehicle's computer) and connectors. The heatsink is mated to critical, high electrical current & high temperature integrated circuits (ICs) By separating the motor and controller, the heat generated by the stator does not transfer over to the controller and vise versa. There by reducing the operating temperature of the controller and extending its operation. In addition, cooling the ECM is further facilitated via forced air convection cooling. The focused convection cooling ducts (FCCD) further decreases operating temperature. Air will flow past the heat sink, through the FCCD and through the shroud. Air enters furthest away from the heat exchanger and vehicle’s heat source. As a result, air that is focused past the heat sink fins will be cooler and allow the controller to operate at lower temperatures. Air flow through the FCCD is facilitated via the static pressure created by the main axial fan during operation. This design affectively cools the component for efficient and reliable operation. In addition, situating the ECM in this mannar reduces the air flow consumed and reduces the area obstructed to cool the ECM vs other controller cooling designs. PCB design, component placment, heatsink, module construction techniques, coupled with the FCCDs to facilitate critical electronic component cooling expand the operating life of the ECM.This allows for direct replacment in high temperature, underhood applications where higher efficinecy, longer life, lower EMI and higher performance is desired.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 3,556
From: Fernandina Beach FL
2023 Restomod of the Year finalist
2020 C3 of the Year Winner - Modified
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
1) I bought the dual spals with the De Witts from Willcox on a great deal.
2 Brushless REQUIRES a controller. Brushed does not. I can use a relay, a speed controller, or a jumper if necessary. On a trip, any store with wire and a toggle switch, I can get home.
3) 2000 hrs is 100,000 miles average. My controller shuts them off above 35mph, so maybe 200,000 miles. It also kicks them on high when A/C is on.(Great in stop in go).
I don't need 30,000 hr life. Hell, I want that for me.
4)Spal, who has been making fans for decades, and makes BOTH kinds, says 10% more efficient is realistic. BFD
5) People on vacation in Bora Bora should relax, and get off of here. LMAO
6) With dual fans, one fails I can get home fine.
Last edited by Big2Bird; Jan 5, 2019 at 04:21 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Let's be fair.
1) I bought the dual spals with the De Witts from Willcox on a great deal.
2 Brushless REQUIRES a controller. Brushed does not. I can use a relay, a speed controller, or a jumper if necessary. On a trip, any store with wire and a toggle switch, I can get home.
3) 2000 hrs is 100,000 miles average. My controller shuts them off above 35mph, so maybe 200,000 miles. It also kicks them on high when A/C is on.(Great in stop in go).
I don't need 30,000 hr life. Hell, I want that for me.
4)Spal, who has been making fans for decades, and makes BOTH kinds, says 10% more efficient is realistic. BFD
5) People on vacation in Bora Bora should relax, and get off of here. LMAO
6) With dual fans, one fails I can get home fine.
1) I bought the dual spals with the De Witts from Willcox on a great deal.
2 Brushless REQUIRES a controller. Brushed does not. I can use a relay, a speed controller, or a jumper if necessary. On a trip, any store with wire and a toggle switch, I can get home.
3) 2000 hrs is 100,000 miles average. My controller shuts them off above 35mph, so maybe 200,000 miles. It also kicks them on high when A/C is on.(Great in stop in go).
I don't need 30,000 hr life. Hell, I want that for me.
4)Spal, who has been making fans for decades, and makes BOTH kinds, says 10% more efficient is realistic. BFD
5) People on vacation in Bora Bora should relax, and get off of here. LMAO
6) With dual fans, one fails I can get home fine.
1. Great deal is an opinion
2. No they do not require a controller.. mine are controlled by my FAST XFI fuel injection
3. Some people are happy with a 100,000 flat tappet cam.. I prefer a 200,000 roller
4. Edison made the tungsten light bulb forever... so what??
5. I am board in Bora Boring.. wife on photo shoot and it gets old
6. With brushless they don’t fail:-)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
1. Great deal is an opinion
2. No they do not require a controller.. mine are controlled by my FAST XFI fuel injection
3. Some people are happy with a 100,000 flat tappet cam.. I prefer a 200,000 roller
4. Edison made the tungsten light bulb forever... so what??
5. I am board in Bora Boring.. wife on photo shoot and it gets old
6. With brushless they don’t fail:-)
2) I just read your article/propagnda.
3)Budget again
4)You missed my point
5)Poor guy.
6)Anything fails.
Last edited by Big2Bird; Jan 5, 2019 at 10:14 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Some of us prefer a model T, some of us prefer more modern version of a car :-)
Some of us prefer to live in the past some of us preferred to live in the future :-)
there are guys here that promote flat tappet cams...that’s all fine and dandy, but I don’t :-)
Sorry but whatever the price...a brushed fan is obsolete. Just as a flat tappet cam just as a tungsten lightbulb and eight track player a cassette or an LP
i sold my old tungsten Christmas lights on eBay for $100... lmao
Some of us prefer to live in the past some of us preferred to live in the future :-)
there are guys here that promote flat tappet cams...that’s all fine and dandy, but I don’t :-)
Sorry but whatever the price...a brushed fan is obsolete. Just as a flat tappet cam just as a tungsten lightbulb and eight track player a cassette or an LP
i sold my old tungsten Christmas lights on eBay for $100... lmao
Last edited by pauldana; Jan 5, 2019 at 05:14 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,837
Likes: 1,028
Some of us prefer a model T, some of those prefer more modern version of a car :-) I have both
Some of us prefer to live in the past some of those preferred to live into the future :-) I like both
there are guys here that promote flat tappet cams that’s all fine and dandy but I don’t :-)
Sorry but whatever the price...a brushed fan is obsolete. Just as a flat tappet cam just as a tungsten lightbulb and eight track player a cassette or an LP
Some of us prefer to live in the past some of those preferred to live into the future :-) I like both
there are guys here that promote flat tappet cams that’s all fine and dandy but I don’t :-)
Sorry but whatever the price...a brushed fan is obsolete. Just as a flat tappet cam just as a tungsten lightbulb and eight track player a cassette or an LP
And I have 1200 LP records, and that is another argument.
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
1200?!?!?
wow! That’s actually kind of cool:-)
I still have one linear tracking turntable and about 15 LPs every once in a while I like to sit back and listen to the scratching and popping it brings back nice memories
wow! That’s actually kind of cool:-)
I still have one linear tracking turntable and about 15 LPs every once in a while I like to sit back and listen to the scratching and popping it brings back nice memories
