Gunfighter13

These are the parts I use.You have to decided if the Wilwood brakes are worth the money. To me and others they are. If your car is a garage queen or want it ALL Original then I would go with the OEM replacements. If you drive the car, have some go fast options on it up grade to the Wilwoods.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/1...791+4294828856

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/1...791+4294828856

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/1...791+4294828856

https://www.ecklers.com/corvette/196...-246551-1.html

https://www.ecklers.com/corvette/196...-287064-1.html

jb78L-82

The main advantage of the wilwoods is that they are aluminum versus cast iron for the OEM's and can be used with a larger rotor than stock, 13/14 inch. If you are not planning to race or use the larger rotors whether racing or on the street, I don't see the point, personally.

If I raced my C3, I would definitely go 6 piston front with the 14 inch rotors. A properly setup up stock system with performance brake pads and SS braided lines is just as good as the wilwood stock type calipers and rotors and just as reliable with SS sleeved calipers, for much less money. I still have the same SS calipers from 1985 at all 4 wheels on my 78 C3 installed by me with lip seals (NOT O-rings to boot) with zero issues. Change your brake fluid on any system every 4-5 years and you will be good to go and monitor rotor runout, especailly in the rears. I still have my OEM rear wheel bearing as well........

Gunfighter13

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/140-10789/10002/-1

https://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/140-10790/10002/-1

You could upgrade the front now and do the rears later on with the D8-4 kits.

69427

I highlighted in red your erroneous statements. The key items affecting how quickly a car will stop is the kinetic energy (weight and speed), the grip of the tires, and any available downforce to increase the grip of the tires.

Changing the rotor diameter or the hydraulics ratios only changes the pedal effort to get the car to stop. It does not affect the stopping distance. The tire/road interface has no idea, nor does it care, what size rotors are on the car, or what size caliper pistons are involved. All the tire/road interface sees is the weight pushing down on the tire, and the weight (kinetic energy) trying to keep pushing the contact patch forward.

Your refusal to understand this does not change the laws of physics.

carriljc

@shurst This eckler's sale sounds pretty good to me. Haven't seen one this good in a while. Almost as good as the D8-6&D8-4 combo I got 6+ years ago from VanSteel. If you're serious about getting new brakes I'd jump on it. Mine work great, they don't leak, they look good, and they're even lighter. I bet I struggled with weepy brakes for like 15 to 20 years; now I may be a maroon but once I put these on I haven't had an issue. I also recommend buying or fabricating a pressure bleeder -- makes it all easy-peasy.
https://www.ecklers.com/corvette/196...-246551-1.html

Peterbuilt

I agree if you have the type of rim where you can see the drilled and slotted rotor and painted calipers then go for it.
My rims cover those parts so I went with stock parts.

OldCarBum

I went with the black powder coat option on the calipers and the black coated rotors.
To many guys out there run the bright red Wilwoods and I’m not a fan.

jb78L-82

You clearly do not understand physics or math:

Read and understand the formula which I did not create, invent or actually write...the below is from a technical article on braking...and what I wrote above with formulas is from the same technical article....

"Brake Torque (The Holy Grail)= DISC RADIUS (half the diameter of the rotor) x Clamping force X the coefficient of friction of the brake pad".

Just using a larger rotor with NO OTHER CHANGES to the brake system (look at the formula) increases brake torque which is the ultimate determinant of brake effectiveness besides tires......

From the article again:

"Braking torque: When we are talking about results in the braking department we are actually talking about braking torque "-

Please stop trying to correct me, this article is written by experts that know much more than you and me about braking results.......

I will not digress again on this issue. If you don't want to acknowledge the formulas and facts as stated, let's just agree to disagree and stop derailing the topic.

74_stingray

I totally agree with your view on the Wilwoods vs stock.
I would never debate the stopping of the stock calipers, they stop great, it’s the leaking that sent me over the edge, the weight advantage is a nice bonus and they certainly do look nice. I think it’s awesome for those who have good service from the stock calipers, I don’t count myself as one. I am ok with the price differential.
It’s a fantastic deal to be sure, I would not hesitate . I felt ok about getting $50 off and free shipping.

0Todd TCE

Having been in this debate many times....minimum stopping DISTANCE remains derived from tire torque, not rotor torque.

Tire torque is the adhesion to the road. It's derived by rotor toque. Rotor torque is effected by; disc diameter, pad Cf and clamp force- which is in turn derived by the pressure on the pedal and the MC.

Assuming the same car, same conditions brakes with larger rotor, more piston area or a higher Cf pad will not shorten the distance to a measurable degree. The variation being millisecond time to achieve the maximum tire torque, even braided hoses can have a milsec difference as they don't swell. All the "good stuff" is just more efficient then sliding calipers' However the tire torque is only changed by the tires compound, pressure or surface condition.

The primary benefit of the BBK is both looks and efficiency. They are able to do REPEATED stops without fade better than the smaller formula. But for one stop it's pretty much a wash. An easy way to test this is in the snow: do a hard stop with stock brakes then do one after installing the BBK. Which one stopped your shorter?? "But that's not a true condition; it's snow!" Yes and dry is the same but with a higher road Cf surface, nothing more. Maximum adhesion remains the rubber to the road (regardless of the weather) and thus distance is measure by that. In this case even the best snow tire won't stop shorter with big brakes. I'd wager a few folks have seen the results to prove that sitting in a ditch....lol

Anyone wanting to test the values of this math can use the Dual MC calculator on my web page. You can set your own desired G for stopping and car specs. The only variable not plug and play is the road surface which would be considered a value of 1 for the sake of the math. If you wanted to however one could even factor that if you knew its consistency. Does the calc really work? Had numerous folks tell me it's near dead on for what they achieved and the bias adjuster was very close in it.

gg521

Everybody is an expert. I DO race and use the Wilwood calipers. Yes, they do work a bit better that the stock calipers. No, some vintage racing organizations do not allow Wilwoods, some do. No vintage organizations allow larger rotors and also do not allow 6 piston front rotors.. Yes, the proper pad material is critical.

69427

Dude, I'm a design engineer. I have a pretty good working knowledge of math and physics.

I stand by my earlier statements.

ignatz

tire torque - elegant way to put it Todd!

From my posts a couple of years ago, I was unhappy (Paul Dana too) with the built in bias in the brake system. C3 stock system from Wilwood. We both didn't think the rears were working hard enough with GM's built in safety factor. I installed six piston calipers up front and I adapted a four piston front at the rears. And installed a Tilton proportioning valve to dial down the rears. Problem was how to set the valve. I did some street time and tweaked the valve till the rears stopped locking up first. Seems to me your calculator could be used instead to optimize the rear pressure.

I can measure front and rear pressures, so I think what I would do is plug in all the numbers that I have, along with the front pressure, which just is what it is. Then I change the pedal effort to match my recorded pressure. .... and then keep changing the pivot until the front and rear torques match what the physics on the right says what it should be. That would in turn tell me what the rear pressure should be. Finally, put the car up on a lift and twist the valve till the pressure matches your calculator. Maybe back off a little to be safe. Nice science project!

Does that sound right?

____________

Sorry 'shurst', it probably sounds like blah blah blah at this point. Buy the kit! When you can afford the rears, buy them, you won't be sorry!

0Todd TCE

Tire torque is what we are speaking of when it comes to distance. The old adage; brake don't stop the car tires do. (it's a poor statement really but yeah...sorta) Brakes create brake toque which is applied to the tire and then to the ground. In fact changing the tire size effects that torque just like the rotor does.

Plug the data in with some common data input and see what you find. The only issue with it on a single mc is the bias bar must be set to ZERO and both front and rear MC bore set to the same spec.

Hard to put the value in the prop valve however compared to the true pivot of the balance bar. A balance bar is a fixed value with math based on the location of the pivot. The prop valve is not. It's dynamic so to speak. The more you put in; the less you get out. That's the sliding slope you see on the charts. With it wide open you get full pressure up to say 1000psi and then it decreases. With the **** half way you get full pressure up to about say 500psi then it decreases. In both cases the harder you push the more reduction (up to about 50%) you get. Funky to wrap your head around. Think of it this way: slow speed stops use all four wheels, hard stops use mainly the fronts. What you're changing is not the amount of rear you get really but the point at which you get less.

I'd set the prop at a high pressure threshold. Meaning get to speed....50mph? and then hit them hard in a gentle turn. If the rear lock up crank in more reduction. You'll still get the same four wheel pressure at 200psi in the school zone it's only at the knee point it will cut the rears. Put two heavy adults in the rear seat (yeah I know) and you can back it out some knowing you have more weight on the rear axle.

OldCarBum

I feel sorry for the OP.
All he did was ask a simple question.
And as with most simple questions asked on this forum there are those who always have to be right and their comments to try to prove they are go on and on and on and on and on and on and..................
And it's so tiresome.

69427

For the same amount of typing effort you expended above, you could have added some constructive content to this thread.

But you didn't. You only complained.

I find that tiresome.

ignatz

Good input Todd, I'd clearly forgotten about the prop valve's transfer function. Street tuning under hard stops is what I did figuring that was where the danger lies. I'll think about this a little more.

gg521

Yes, go with the Wilwood calipers. For one thing, they are much easier to work on when you have to and they do not suffer from the runout and leaking problems of the stock calipers. Yes, the stock calipers work fine but they have their shortcomings. Why not go with improved technology. They are lighter, have stainless steel pistons to help with heat transfer and have improved piston seal design.

OldCarBum

I did twice and like I said the "I know everything and I'm right attitude on this forum is tiresome and so are those who only read a portion of a thread and then interject their own BS is all to common and frustrating.
And yes you are one of the ones beating the dead horse.

akdale

Well, I am replacing my TA bushings and this was a timely post. One of my rear calipers is leaking. The OP asked the same questions I was going to. From the comments it does appear the stock system is quite good as long as SS sleeves are present. My thought was I am better off putting money into better tires than aftermarket calipers alone.