Harmonic Balancer Install Disaster
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
(Add) I'm guessing the crank will be somewhere between 1.246" and 1.247". I have seen some variations from these numbers but this generally what you find.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. On a side note I doubt the balancer could never get to some of the temps mentioned above, not going to happen. No matter how hot it gets you'd always be able to touch it w/o any burns?
Last edited by GOSFAST; May 28, 2019 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Add
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
Adam, make that "under" or you'll need a new balancer!!
(Add) I'm guessing the crank will be somewhere between 1.246" and 1.247". I have seen some variations from these numbers but this generally what you find.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. On a side note I doubt the balancer could never get to some of the temps mentioned above, not going to happen. No matter how hot it gets you'd always be able to touch it w/o any burns?
(Add) I'm guessing the crank will be somewhere between 1.246" and 1.247". I have seen some variations from these numbers but this generally what you find.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. On a side note I doubt the balancer could never get to some of the temps mentioned above, not going to happen. No matter how hot it gets you'd always be able to touch it w/o any burns?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Adam, make that "under" or you'll need a new balancer!!
(Add) I'm guessing the crank will be somewhere between 1.246" and 1.247". I have seen some variations from these numbers but this generally what you find.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. On a side note I doubt the balancer could never get to some of the temps mentioned above, not going to happen. No matter how hot it gets you'd always be able to touch it w/o any burns?
(Add) I'm guessing the crank will be somewhere between 1.246" and 1.247". I have seen some variations from these numbers but this generally what you find.
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. On a side note I doubt the balancer could never get to some of the temps mentioned above, not going to happen. No matter how hot it gets you'd always be able to touch it w/o any burns?
Thanks for the clarification.
Adam
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Gas or electric, no difference, if it makes you more comfortable heat up the oven first then put the balancer in. Water is not a good lubricant. So getting it hot over water may not be ideal.
Gary's method would both heat the hub and lubricate the hole a little from off gassing of the oil.
Gary's method would both heat the hub and lubricate the hole a little from off gassing of the oil.
What I was talking about doing was a "double boiler" where I heat up a pan full of water to boiling on the oven and then put a coffee can of oil down into the larger pan of boiling water to transfer the heat from the water to the oil -without having the risk of an open flame and engine oil. -I wasn't going to immerse the balancer hub in water, but the oil, which gets heated from the water bath. (Just makes me feel more comfortable with the risk of fire.)
Adam
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1,171
From: Hermosa
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 523
From: home
That is what we strive for with an ATI balancer and a LS crank. I'm sure a sbc or bbc is no different. My best suggestion is ton follow ATI's directions.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 523
From: home
I do on a hot plate. I heat just the hub then bolt on the balancer afterwards. And I use a quality balancer installer. My case a Snap-On. I'm sure a Mac. Matco. or OTC would do just as well. Remember, a normally aspirated LS has no keyway to help keep the balancer from spinning on the crank . I use this same spec when assembling dry sump engine with Dailey and A.R.E. set ups. It has been years since I did a balancer on my 69 427, but I would follow ATI's directions to the letter.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 767
Likes: 74
From: Blaine MN
Interesting info folks, I've installed two fluidampr's ( sbc and bbc) and many oem type HB's and didn't need to heat or cool anything. I've always used a proper installer and hub bolt type puller and never had problems ( I will say the bbc fluidampr was tougher to seat though). Very good info on the hone fit for ATI, I almost went with the ATI until I decided to stay around 6200 for the rev limit.
Adam, glad to hear it wasn't a full disaster (I had several with my 460 build, just not the damper).
Adam, glad to hear it wasn't a full disaster (I had several with my 460 build, just not the damper).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
ATI damper fit
5. Press fit of the hub to the crankshaft is vital to transfer harmonics to the damper assembly.
Recommended press is as follows:
Crankshaft OD ----------------Interference
1.0000" - 1.2500"-------------.0009" to .0012"
1.6010" - 2.0000"-------------.0006" to .0008"
1.2510" - 1.3750"-------------.0008" to .0011"
2.0010" - 2.5000"-------------.0005" to .0007"
1.3750" - 1.6000"-------------.0007" to .0009"
GM cranks are typically to tolerance +/- .0001 (one ten thousandth). If you are using an OEM GM crank you
can hone the damper hub as follows:
Big Block:--------------------------hone to 1.5993" +/- .0001"
Small Block:----------- -----------hone to 1.2453" +/- .0001"
Thanks, Gary in N.Y.
P.S. In over 50 years of doing this stuff I've never seen the press fits you mentioned!
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,445
Likes: 353
From: Athens GA
St. Jude Donor '12-'13, '15- '16-'17-'18-'19, '21
Why not put the engine in a walk-in freezer at your local restaurant overnight?
Then heat the balancer on the grill.
Mount with installer.
Do this before the lunch rush.....
Just kidding......
Glad to be warned about the steps to do an install with ATI.
Any install I ever did was pretty easy just s long as it was lubed, the keys lined up and a good installer was used.
Making sure it was a straight in shot and go slow.
Any resistance, back it off and find the issue.
A little dykem helps with that.
And remember to lube the timing cover seal before the install.
Thanks for the details from others using ATI dampers.
Then heat the balancer on the grill.
Mount with installer.
Do this before the lunch rush.....
Just kidding......
Glad to be warned about the steps to do an install with ATI.
Any install I ever did was pretty easy just s long as it was lubed, the keys lined up and a good installer was used.
Making sure it was a straight in shot and go slow.
Any resistance, back it off and find the issue.
A little dykem helps with that.
And remember to lube the timing cover seal before the install.
Thanks for the details from others using ATI dampers.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
I watch most engine building shows on TV. They were in John Kasse's shop a while back and had what looked like a hydraulic rig that pressed the balancer on with ease. I'd never seen one before, haven't since.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
just wait until winter... JK. a friend used to work at Pratt and Whitney. he had helicopter rotor shafts in the deep freeze, hubs in the oven. he had about 4 seconds to get hub on to the seat. if it didn't make it, the whole assy was scrap metal.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 523
From: home
Note I mentioned LS, which is 95% of the engines we do. That is the spec my engine builder strives for. I also said I'd follow ATI's instructions. Your results may vary. Always good to hear what other professionals do and to compare notes.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
I JUST dropped the balancer off at my machine shop. They're great- They looked at my caliper measurements and went "umm.. no!" -We'll machine it to SBC OEM spec because that's not right. (I didn't know to use the ratcheting screw on the end and made it too tight, apparently.)
-I'll re-measure it again tonight so when I go to pick it up tomorrow I can see if my technique improved based upon what they showed me and if I can get a more accurate #.
Adam
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 332
From: Woodinville WA
Adam