SS396 Vette Idea
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: none NC
SS396 Vette Idea
Does it seem like a bad idea to drop a SS396 Chevelle block into a '69. I have a green '69 with a good running 427 but would like to build up an easily interchangeable 396 motor. I also plan on maybe destroking it to a 377?? by dropping in a new 350 crank. Is this cool??
Race Director
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From: NM
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (screechywheels)
???????????? A 350 crank into a big block, don't think it will work. The 396 and 427 and 454 are all the same block, just different bore/stroke combo's.
tom...
tom...
Le Mans Master
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From: Chattanooga TN
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (Tom73)
???????????? A 350 crank into a big block, don't think it will work. The 396 and 427 and 454 are all the same block, just different bore/stroke combo's.
tom...
tom...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (screechywheels)
Why not build the 396 to duplicate the 425 horse version that was first installed in a Vette? Forget de-stroking it. If you want a 377 then fiddle around with a mouse motor. Build a 425 horse 396 and you'll have a killer motor. Make sure you have the 4-bolt main block though. 2-bolt main 396 aren't worth the investment and are boat anchors.
Dep
Dep
Race Director
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (Dep)
If you are going to spend the money and time building a 396 why not start with a 454. For every jump in engine size the horsepower goes up about 25 horse so a 454 is already ahead of the 396 by 50 horse both motors be built identical . They both have the same outside dimensions so it is no harder to install the 454.
If you are going to use the argument that a 396 will rev quicker , higher then the 454 a well built 454 can be taken to 7500 and on the street who needs this kind of top end, rev's kill motors quicker then horsepower.
If you are going to use the argument that a 396 will rev quicker , higher then the 454 a well built 454 can be taken to 7500 and on the street who needs this kind of top end, rev's kill motors quicker then horsepower.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 17
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From: none NC
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (Dep)
it is a four-bolt main, does the 425 horse motor lean more towards upper-end torque??
what are the generic specs on this motor??
carb cfm
cam lift
what kind of heads
what are the generic specs on this motor??
carb cfm
cam lift
what kind of heads
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 6
From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (screechywheels)
Here are some of the specs on the L-78 as installed in the 1965 Corvette...
Cubic Inch 396
HP @ RPM 425 @ 6400
Torque RPM 415 @ 4000
Comp. Ratio 11.0:1
Bore / Stroke 4.094 x 3.76
Carburetor 4bbl Holley on aluminum hi-rise manifold
Spark Plug Type 43N
Note the horsepower@RPM specs. It really does rev.
For those that question why not a 454 and why all that rev...I refer you to all the mouse motor owners for that answer.
I wouldn't mind yanking out my 454 and installing a 1965 spec L-78 in my '72 Vette. I remember that motor at the strip and saw it blow off MANY opponents while installed in an SS396 Chevelle.
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 2:31 PM 11/7/2002]
Cubic Inch 396
HP @ RPM 425 @ 6400
Torque RPM 415 @ 4000
Comp. Ratio 11.0:1
Bore / Stroke 4.094 x 3.76
Carburetor 4bbl Holley on aluminum hi-rise manifold
Spark Plug Type 43N
Note the horsepower@RPM specs. It really does rev.
For those that question why not a 454 and why all that rev...I refer you to all the mouse motor owners for that answer.
I wouldn't mind yanking out my 454 and installing a 1965 spec L-78 in my '72 Vette. I remember that motor at the strip and saw it blow off MANY opponents while installed in an SS396 Chevelle.
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 2:31 PM 11/7/2002]
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Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: none NC
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (garagedweller2)
No final decision, but where can I find the exact specs of how to build this engine. I take it this will make a reliable engine that can be driven on the road??
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (screechywheels)
Well...it IS a solid lifter engine, which means you'll be doing some adjusting of lifters to keep it running good. Plus 11-1 compression ratio means you'll be using octane booster to keep it running well. It's a pretty hot setup for a daily grocery-getter, but it would be reliable. Search around on the nternet for specs on the motor or look in Ecklers or other Vette parts places for manuals on building them. They are pretty much the same as any Chevy big block motor.
Dep
Dep
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,556
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From: Seattle WA
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (garagedweller2)
Aren't 396 blocks for Corvettes different from the standard ones? Anyway, a 396 would be cool! Any engine can rev high, but only few can few quickly!
and about 25 more hp per enigne jump, where do you base that? i have built 427 left and right on DD2000 and often i increase them to 454, and all i notice is a tiny bit more torque at a lower RPM. it never, never gets more HP. a 454 built the same as a 396 should have a little more power, maybe 30hp, and between 50-200 more ft lbs more torque. keep in mind the big diffrence between the big blocks is stroke, not bore. :cheers:
oh and no, a corvette 396 is the same as a 396 in a camaro. the only diffrence would be that it is more likely to have 4 bolt mains. (much better!) if your dead set on a 396, get one out of an old truck (make sure about the 4 bolt mains!) and build it the way you want. the way to check if it has 4-bolt mains is: take the oilpan off, and look at the "Clamps" (for lack of a better word) holding the crankshaft on. if each one has 4 bolt heads... your good. if only 2 per "Clamp" keep looking. the "clamps" are what hold the main berrings on the crank.
[Modified by '79ProwlerOrange, 3:07 AM 11/8/2002]
Race Director
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: SS396 Vette Idea ('79ProwlerOrange)
and about 25 more hp per enigne jump, where do you base that?
79Prowlerorange. This comes from a manual of how to hot rod the chevy big block or something like that. It is a very old book but still used today.
If you are building a motor to have at least 1 horsepower per cubic inch then it stand to reason that an increase of 30 cubic inches or from 396 to 427 will give you an increase of at least 25 horse. Same with the jump from 427 to 545, another increase of about 30 cubic inches or 25 horse.
Back to the old " there is not substitue for cubic inches" while this is not completely true with other power adders in this case a staight engine buildup it is true.
Why do the guys build 383's instead of just 350 if cubic inch didn't matter, or why no drop back to the old 327 instead of the 383?
Increasing the 454 to 496 with a 1/4 inch increase in stroke makes a big noticable difference.
There is still no substitue for cubic inches so if 2 motors cost the same to build why not go for an additional 58-60 cubic inches?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Living in the Hartland
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (norvalwilhelm)
Norval
I made that same arguement is a diff thread. If the engines are built to rev to the same rpm's then the larger disp engine should win out. It will take in more charge which should cause a greater explosion yeilding more power. Just look at the a NHRA race, the cars that go the fastest almost always have larger disp engines. Why do you think they have limits are CI if it didn't matter?
I made that same arguement is a diff thread. If the engines are built to rev to the same rpm's then the larger disp engine should win out. It will take in more charge which should cause a greater explosion yeilding more power. Just look at the a NHRA race, the cars that go the fastest almost always have larger disp engines. Why do you think they have limits are CI if it didn't matter?
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,148
Likes: 5
From: Roxbury NJ
Re: SS396 Vette Idea ('79ProwlerOrange)
Aren't 396 blocks for Corvettes different from the standard ones? Anyway, a 396 would be cool! Any engine can rev high, but only few can few quickly!
im pretty sure a 427 will rev faster and higher than a 396. especially if you build it right. i would also make it a roller motor.
and about 25 more hp per enigne jump, where do you base that? i have built 427 left and right on DD2000 and often i increase them to 454, and all i notice is a tiny bit more torque at a lower RPM. it never, never gets more HP. a 454 built the same as a 396 should have a little more power, maybe 30hp, and between 50-200 more ft lbs more torque. keep in mind the big diffrence between the big blocks is stroke, not bore. :cheers:
oh and no, a corvette 396 is the same as a 396 in a camaro. the only diffrence would be that it is more likely to have 4 bolt mains. (much better!) if your dead set on a 396, get one out of an old truck (make sure about the 4 bolt mains!) and build it the way you want. the way to check if it has 4-bolt mains is: take the oilpan off, and look at the "Clamps" (for lack of a better word) holding the crankshaft on. if each one has 4 bolt heads... your good. if only 2 per "Clamp" keep looking. the "clamps" are what hold the main berrings on the crank.
[Modified by '79ProwlerOrange, 3:07 AM 11/8/2002]
im pretty sure a 427 will rev faster and higher than a 396. especially if you build it right. i would also make it a roller motor.
and about 25 more hp per enigne jump, where do you base that? i have built 427 left and right on DD2000 and often i increase them to 454, and all i notice is a tiny bit more torque at a lower RPM. it never, never gets more HP. a 454 built the same as a 396 should have a little more power, maybe 30hp, and between 50-200 more ft lbs more torque. keep in mind the big diffrence between the big blocks is stroke, not bore. :cheers:
oh and no, a corvette 396 is the same as a 396 in a camaro. the only diffrence would be that it is more likely to have 4 bolt mains. (much better!) if your dead set on a 396, get one out of an old truck (make sure about the 4 bolt mains!) and build it the way you want. the way to check if it has 4-bolt mains is: take the oilpan off, and look at the "Clamps" (for lack of a better word) holding the crankshaft on. if each one has 4 bolt heads... your good. if only 2 per "Clamp" keep looking. the "clamps" are what hold the main berrings on the crank.
[Modified by '79ProwlerOrange, 3:07 AM 11/8/2002]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (Fevre)
QUOTE:
"Just look at the a NHRA race, the cars that go the fastest almost always have larger disp engines."
That's a REAL general statement and is NOT always valid. There's a hell of a lot more that goes into a winning drag car than just large cubic inches.
I can't count the number of big block engines I've seen blown away by a high-revving mouse motor. I've seen a TON of big blocks get embarrassed by Boss 302 and Z-28's with 302 cubic inch engines. And the drag classes are based on more than just cubic inch. Weight of the vehicle is also a factor that is measured on a scale. Better dig deeper into your example before laying it out as proof :nono:
Dep
"Just look at the a NHRA race, the cars that go the fastest almost always have larger disp engines."
That's a REAL general statement and is NOT always valid. There's a hell of a lot more that goes into a winning drag car than just large cubic inches.
I can't count the number of big block engines I've seen blown away by a high-revving mouse motor. I've seen a TON of big blocks get embarrassed by Boss 302 and Z-28's with 302 cubic inch engines. And the drag classes are based on more than just cubic inch. Weight of the vehicle is also a factor that is measured on a scale. Better dig deeper into your example before laying it out as proof :nono:
Dep
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,714
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From: Silver City NM
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Re: SS396 Vette Idea ('79ProwlerOrange)
You guys really grab the ball and run with it!!!!! I wish you were playing for the Chicago Bears. If you'll look at the guys posts you'll see that he already HAS a 396 with 4-bolt mains. Are YOU going to buy him a new 427 block to build or pay for the boring and stroking of his current block????
Cripes...425 horse out of a 396 at 6500 rpm is some pretty hot performance. You guys must have some pretty deep pockets for all the THEORIES you so easily dispense. Heck...why not just tell him to buy a Keith Black Hemi and have at it against John Force or Tony Pedregon???
Come on back down to earth and give this guy some PRACTICAL suggestions and get out of Corvette-dreamland :mad
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 11:43 AM 11/8/2002]
Cripes...425 horse out of a 396 at 6500 rpm is some pretty hot performance. You guys must have some pretty deep pockets for all the THEORIES you so easily dispense. Heck...why not just tell him to buy a Keith Black Hemi and have at it against John Force or Tony Pedregon???
Come on back down to earth and give this guy some PRACTICAL suggestions and get out of Corvette-dreamland :mad
Dep
[Modified by Dep, 11:43 AM 11/8/2002]
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (Dep)
I have an old 327 with camel hump heads sitting under the stairway. It is complete and will either be thrown out or left to collect dust. I would go out and buy a used 350 before I would spend any money on the smaller 327. The cost of another used block is minor compared to the total cost of building an engine.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 17
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From: none NC
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (Dep)
well, like i said, i have a unoriginal 427 block out of a corvette that has been changed to 1969 specs that i thought is kind of slow revving, though very torquey. The 396 i was hoping would not realy rev high but fast
maybe i should think about dropping a roller cam in the 427 and port the heads. I have about 10 sets of rebuilt heads that nobody ever picked up from the machine shop that i have not determined if they are all the same year and what they came out of
what roller cam?????
maybe i should think about dropping a roller cam in the 427 and port the heads. I have about 10 sets of rebuilt heads that nobody ever picked up from the machine shop that i have not determined if they are all the same year and what they came out of
what roller cam?????
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,281
Likes: 6
From: NC USA
Re: SS396 Vette Idea (screechywheels)
I have about 10 sets of rebuilt heads that nobody ever picked up from the machine shop that i have not determined if they are all the same year and what they came out of
If you have any aluminum rectangular port BB heads in that pile I would be interested. :yesnod:
[Modified by Marks69BB, 10:58 AM 11/8/2002]